I recently purchased a copy of 'Roadcraft', the highly rated police driver's handbook with a view to becoming a better and safer driver. I had also shortlisted a Telegraph publication called 'How to be a Better Driver' or something similar but was advised against it as it tended to focus on physical car control rather than real-world situations. Having read 'Roadcraft' I can now safely say that I wish I'd bought the Telegraph publication instead.
As somebody with a moderate enthusiasm for motoring, I drive by feeling and understanding what is going on underneath me and applying that to the situation in hand. I do not need to be told about abstract 'mental processes' and the merits of 'push-pull' steering.
I feel that if you learn how to drive properly and have an understanding of the physics going on underneath you, everything else falls into place. I recommend learning real car control at a racing circuit over the pedantic nonsense found in 'Roadcraft'.
Without meaning to come over all Mr X, I feel that the police drivers would be better off learning more about the physics of car control than the stuff that is taught in 'Roadcraft'. The current system seems to instill a rather wooden driving style.
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I read it when I took my I.A.M many years ago. I was given coaching by a serving police driving instructor who advised me that it was ' a guide' and not a bible.
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Driving by feeling and knowing whats going on underneath you, does not make you a better or safer driver. Utilising some of the techniques in roadcraft, like positioning and observation, does.
Driving by the seat of your pants is for the racetrack where everyone is going in the same direction.
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Driving by feeling and knowing whats going on underneath you does not make you a better or safer driver.
Surely you need to drive by feeling to a certain extent eg. to know at what speed it is safe to go around corners without holding up other traffic, especially if it's just been raining after a dry spell and the road is greasy?
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. Utilising some of the techniques in roadcraft like positioning and observation does. Driving by the seat of your pants is for the racetrack where everyone is going in the same direction.
IMO both are needed.
On todays roads there seems to be a total lack of common sense. thats where positioning and observation come into play.
If you get a feel for what the cars doing, then you can 'read' what its about to do, the only problem there is, with todays cars they have no feel.
the driver is isolated from the bumps etc in the road, both by the physical and electronic 'improvements'
the first many drivers know of the vehicles limits, is when the electronic aids can not cope, and the vehicle leaves the road.
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If you get a feel for what the cars doing then you can 'read' what its about to do
I couldn't agree more.
When I passed my test a few years ago, one of the first things I did was to book a 'driving experience' day at the nearest racing circuit. Quite apart from having a great time, I found that my confidence on the public highway shot up as I could really get a handle on what the car was doing and was about to do. I felt that I could really read and interperate the road ahead and imagine in my minds eye what the car was going to do next, allowing me to place it appropriately, in a similar way that a golfer reads a green whilst lining up a put.
Funny thing is, the friend who I travelled home with that day now refuses to get in a car with me.....................
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Read Paul Ripley's "Expert Driving".
ISBN 0-7160-3009-8
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I did a police "safe driving" course -well worth the small cost.A series of lectures,a run out in a high-speed pursuit car and an afternoon on their skid pan.We were showed a video of a run in a police training vehicle and the majority of the participants on the course did not agree with some of the driver's commentary-interestingly,the instructor agreed with us.
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Read Paul Ripley's "Expert Driving". ISBN 0-7160-3009-8
That's the one I should have gone for, oh well, onwards to amazon!
AE, I know that driving by the seat of your pants doesn't automatically make you a safe driver, but having a good 'feel' for the car is an essential prerequisite.
My point is that if more people could establish this 'feel', including the police, they would be better placed to make safe judgements in changing conditions. You cannot 'tell' someone how to drive no more than you can 'tell' someone how to play a musical instrument. It's all about finesse, control and judgement. You can only learn these things by pushing the envelope in a controlled environment.
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you need both...i.e. Roadcraft has it place as a basic sensible guide, then you need to move on and evolve, learning what you're suggesting Hector.
I've long thought for emergency service driving for example...the safety element of roadcraft ought to be taught alongside a thrap around a circuit so you can feel what a car does in extremis. I should imagine cost prevents this, which is a pity.
What you really don't want is to find out each different car's handling characteristics on a wet bend, in an emergency situation..it would be rather handy to have known that beforehand, which is difficult to do legally on a public road.
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Roadcraft is a guide, nothing more. I've been an advanced grade for 11 years. There are points I have dispensed with and others I have developed.
Life savers are forward observation and limit points. If you can understand and apply those, you're more than halfway there.
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AE I know that driving by the seat of your pants doesn't automatically make you a safe driver but having a good 'feel' for the car is an essential prerequisite.
Indeed. Most of us did this on deserted carparpks on frosty mornings, or a farmers field, or just generally being an ahrs when young.. indeed when I get a new car I always go out late at night and give it a caning to feel what its like at the limits
But ultimately, all thats teaches you is how to be a better lunatic on the road. It does not teach you how to observe and keep out of trouble.
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I used Motorcycle Roadcraft when preparing for my test. Pleased to say I passed first time and put it down to the book - and the fact I am a very skilled driver :-) of course.
mdj
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Rummage through the book case - Ah! Found it!
ISBN: 0 11 340149 first edition 1978: Motorcycle Road craft - heck was it that long ago since I picked you up?
I stopped riding bikes a good few years ago after a 'big off' after being side swiped, 25mph in a one way street that took my confidence and nearly my ability away to walk.
The usual, sorry mate, did not see you. How the hell can you miss a GSXR1100RW, headlight on with the rider wearing a dayglo green jacket?
Dayglo was strictly weekly commute only and I also used a ZZR400 a GPz305B5 and a Honda C90 cub!
GSXR was being taken in for service on the way to work - typical eh?
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I sometimes think that if new drivers were given some lessons in basic physics they would be much safer. If people could understand that human beings were never meant to cover ground at a mile a minuite and that to do so is inherently dangerous, they might calm things down a bit until they were sure of what they were doing.
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I read 'Roadcraft' many years ago and even though at the time I thought it should have been subtitled 'How to ride slowly' there is much useful advice in it.
I think everyone should read it - then form their own opinion.
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Forward observation is what needs to be drummed into heads when learning to drive. So many seem to be fixated on a point about 10ft in front of their bonnets.
Push-pull steering should have gone out with the steering box and crossply tyres. I need to do it when parking my old Dart or driving a Conquest but that's about it.
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Several year ago after reading Paul Ripley's "tyres and tarmac" suggeston for stopping in traffic I put it into practice immediately. Within 24 hours someone stalled in front of me and could't get going again. But for PR I would still be stuck.
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I haven't read any recent editions of Roadcraft but I read some of the older ones and I found them interesting and helpful.
While one obviously does drive by feel to some extent, an organised mental approach instills self-discipline and good habits, leading to a systematic style of driving.
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About 10 years ago, I was out and about in the countryside west of Chesterfield when I happened to see an immaculate police squad car - some sort of high-powered BMW estate or similar - sitting in the brilliant sunshine observing the world. The police officer was equally impressive in his white peaked cap and hi-viz.
An hour or so later, I found myself following our hero through Chesterfield. As expected, on approaching the Police Station, the officer indicated left signalling his intention to turn into same. So far, so good.
Despite keeping an appropriately respectful distance behind The Shiny One, I all but ran into the back of him as, on turning in, he stamped on the brakes in order to give himself time to do an amazingly theatrical push-pull thrash with the steering wheel - all elbows and shoulders.
Still laughing. Thanks for letting me share.
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Forward observation is what needs to be drummed into heads when learning to drive.
looking forward is most important of course, but you should be fully aware of whats happening ALL around you.
in an ideal world, nothing would ever take you by surprise.
lets try some of my 'wisdom?' on you all.
the more basic, and less powerful a vehicle, the easier it is to reach its limits,
conversely, the the more exotic, and more powerful a vehicle, the easier it is to reach your limits.
discuss...... ;-)
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Quote:....""the more basic, and less powerful a vehicle, the easier it is to reach its limits,
conversely, the the more exotic, and more powerful a vehicle, the easier it is to reach your limits.
discuss...... ""
Broadly, yes. I mean if you floor it when the lights go green in an old AC Cobra you're likely to find yourself facing the wrong way. If you go down a long hill at 56 mph in a loaded artic you are highly likely to come to grief at the bottom. But someone who's never driven before would probably manage a foot-to-floor quarter mile at Santa Pod in a milk float without incident.
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I bought this book a few years ago and was found it underwhelming. I found it too basic and common sense.
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...and good habits...
Difficult one, there is an argument which says all habits are bad because they are an automated response.
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the more basic and less powerful a vehicle the easier it is to reach its limits conversely the the more exotic and more powerful a vehicle the easier it is to reach your limits.
you're more likely to over drive the under powered one..flooring it everywhere and trying to keep the momentum up, even if that isn't wise
whereas the more powerful one you don't need to and didn't ought to if you've got any sense, so you learn to drive it properly
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Westpig - you have summed up, what I was trying to say almost perfectly!
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you're more likely to over drive the under powered one..flooring it everywhere and trying to keep the momentum up, even if that isn't wise
I've done a hell of a lot of that Wp, and although it may not always be 'wise' it does teach you where the fine line between OK and a bit dodgy actually lies in any given situation.
From that viewpoint, I'd just like to put in a gripe about drivers of more high-powered machinery who constantly baulk one owing to their conservative reading of speed limits and so forth, then blast away uphill leaving one with 20mph to make up in unfavourable circumstances. I can tell you that if I was driving an RS4 I wouldn't be getting in the way of Skoda Estelles and the like. I'm sure you wouldn't either of course... But there are plenty who do it, believe me. Perhaps not in RS4s really but in more-than-adequate posh repmobiles anyway.
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Push-pull steering should have gone out with the steering box and crossply tyres. I need to do it when parking my old Dart or driving a Conquest but that's about it.
I disagree, I don't do it religously, but if I want to make smooth and controlled progress I reckon that push/pull gives me one of the best levels of control over my car. I can also wallop it around corners using this method no problem at all even when passenger comfort and mechanical sympathy have been disregarded.
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Psychology causes more accidents than physics! Car control doesn't compensate for stupidity or over confidence either. If you want to improve then I'd recommend a Ride Drive session with an advanced police tutor. Also the book Mind Driving by Steve Haley explains driver psychology much better than roadcraft does which is generally aimed at plod rather than the average motorist. He talks about speed, space and surprise being the 3 elements of an accident.
The abstract mental processes are how you stay alive. If you don't understand why you do something then you can't improve upon it so easily. Car control doesn't improve your observation. Car control doesn't help you understand why you make mistakes. Car control doesn't let you allow for the mistakes of others to such a high degree. It's all in the thought applied to driving.
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Roadcraft has evolved as has vehicle technology. Amongst other disciplines 'push pull' does not have to be undertaken religiously and it is now acceptable to brake and change gear at the same time. Double de clutching has long since been confined to history.
Roadcraft is a theoretical guide. The skill comes in applying its theories into practice.
I have to admit that the last time I properly studied Roadcraft was in 1984 but I still hold the relevant authorities at their highest level.
Advanced driving which encompasses Roadcraft is a skill for life.
Edited by Fullchat on 31/05/2009 at 11:58
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Just out of interest, does Roadcraft have an opinion on heel-and-toeing?
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heel & towing doesn't work with most cars now as the brake pedal switch is linked to engine managment & cuts off power when brake pedal applied.
The one thing the book doesn't teach is how to avoid blowing up engines & gearboxes at massive tax payer expense.
I have known just one constablary alone to destroy 7 engines in a month, purley due to changing down to early causing excessive overreving of an engine as the engines cannot be overreved in the acceleration period as the limiter cuts in. The tell tale signs are in the clutch centre plate when the linnings come off due to excessive centrifugal force from overreving or selecting a down change to early
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Injection doc -how many cars does that constabulary have and how many miles do they do in a month? How many breakdowns due to other causes? How does the failure rate compare to other large fleet users?
Oh, and the term is heel and toeing. As in: tips of the foot and not trailers.
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>>heel & toeing doesn't work with most cars now as the brake pedal switch is linked to engine managment & cuts off power when brake pedal applied.
Not heard that before. Is it common? It's certainly not so on my 07 Impreza RB320.
Edited by nick on 31/05/2009 at 22:21
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