The government is under pressure to re-think its new motorcycle test following a series of crashes in the first few weeks of its use.
Some instructors blame a new manoeuvre known as the "swerve test" which they say is dangerous and ill-thought out.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8067672.stm
|
Just found a bit more information.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8067212.stm
"During the test, learners have to reach 31.2 miles per hour, then perform a swerve, on special test centre tracks. But some instructors say that if riders brake and swerve at the same time they are likely to come off, particularly in the wet. "
"The new test was brought in at the end of April and in the first three and a half weeks there were 15 incidents during the exam, with at least one rider left with broken bones."
|
|
Confucius he say better to be bone broke now, than stone dead later!
|
|
Does the new test also include how to perform a wheelie at 80mph whilst overtaking a line of traffic doing about 50? I assume it must as three bikers did it yesterday on the Settle bypass.
Edited by daveyjp on 26/05/2009 at 11:08
|
|
|
|
>>"The new test was brought in at the end of April and in the first three and a half weeks there were 15 incidents during the exam, with at least one rider left with broken bones."
The test was brought in to avoid riders having accidents :-(
Oh and it is of course an EU directive so we must conform.)
|
|
|
|
|
Having seen bikers on the A6 roar up behind vehicles, swerve around them at speed and disappear in to the next corner whilst riding a bike that is banked over at near horizontal, they don't seem to be bothered about the possibility of breaking bones.
|
I was carved up this morning by a car driver who then proceeded swerve across three lanes of traffic and cause two vehicles to take avoiding action.
Car drivers are idiots and a danger to all and sundry.
A ridiculous, over simplistic, and factually incorrect statement, but one which many don't hesitate to apply to bikers.
Edited by DP on 26/05/2009 at 11:19
|
Although emergencies develop very fast and one doesn't have much time to think what to do, the reaction should be to brake as much as you can and then, if you need to, swerve. I don't ride a motorbike, but that's the best advice for a car, lorry and also pedal cycle.
Proportionately, there are just as many idiot bikers as idiot car drivers.
Edited by Sofa Spud on 26/05/2009 at 11:32
|
I've got the bruises to prove that braking and swerving don't go together.
It's many years since I took my test and do just over 400 miles a week, but my inclination would be to use mainly rear wheel braking to cut the speed whilst avoiding locking the front wheel, thereby retaining some steering function.
And why must it be done at 50kph (31mph) just to conform to Continental limits when the equivalent limit in the UK is 30mph? If it's meant to replicate urban conditions then it doesn't seem logical to teach how to do something at an illegal speed.
|
|
|
|
Having seen bikers on the A6 ...
Oh come on Mr Cross (Mr Angry?) the article is about people taking their test.
I too see poor bike riding, but not as much as I see poor car driving. Roads like the A6 and Cat and Fiddle are probably the worst in the country for poor riding - but they're not typical of the rest of the biking population or the rest of the country. And I don't see how its relevant to an important motoring safety issue which may be a poorly designed test.
The whole reason the country is having to build specialist centres for the new bike tests is because someone nodded through a requirement to do it at 50KPH, so it became illegal to do the test in a 30mph limit. So we can't exactly trust them with the rest of the test design.
|
If God had meant bicycles to be fitted with engines he wouldn't have given them pedals!!!!
PS, I'm not religious!!
Edited by Sofa Spud on 26/05/2009 at 11:33
|
If God had meant bicycles to be fitted with engines he wouldn't have given them pedals!!!!
Oh dear, a contribution from the Flat Earth Society! ;-)
|
|
|
If God had meant bicycles to be fitted with engines he wouldn't have given them pedals!!!!
Is this why motorbikes don't have pedals ? :)
Edited by gmac on 27/05/2009 at 09:12
|
|
|
|
|
disappear in to the next corner whilst riding a bike that is banked over at near horizontal.
I'm guessing Mr X
a) doesn't ride a motorbike
b) is not aware the majority of bikes in the UK are sportsbikes
How would Mr X propose getting a sportsbike around a corner if not banking it over, turning the handlebars on these bikes is not like a steering wheel in a car.
|
|
I agree, but since my thread was moved from discussion to the bikers caff I doubt we'll see him again!
|
So glad I passed just over a year ago, quite like to have ago at this test on someone elses bike that they wouldnt mind me dropping and a lid that doesnt quite cost as much.
I do wonder if they'll fiddle with the car test so you would have to do similer things.
Boris
|
>>quite like to have ago at this test on someone elses bike that they wouldnt mind me dropping<<
The training companies would let you have a go - for a fee. The fee may be larger if you drop their bike though :-)
Or you join an IAM group and learn lots of new things - the bike groups are *much* better than the car groups.
I'm also pleased that I passed before these new rules.
|
How do they know you are riding at 50kph ? Do you have to ride through a radar trap before doing the swerve ? I know my bike is showing 35mph at a true 50kph so at an indicated 31.x I still will not be travelling at 50kph.
In the car test there's an examiner sitting next to you for the emergency stop who can visually check your speed before hitting the dashboard, I can't imagine an examiner being too keen to follow you on their bike just to confirm the speed before a learner throws a CB500 down the road in front of them.
Edited by gmac on 27/05/2009 at 22:08
|
|
On the footage of the test they had an examiner with a radar gun checking the speed.
|
|
|
|
I am already member of the IAM biking section, well worth the fee so hopefully will never have to attempt a swerve and brake manoeuvre through forward planning etc, guess it?s just the young person hormones wondering what would happen if I did try something where apparently I could get hurt.
Boris
|
|
Quite agree with Boris, you have to look ahead, anticipate and plan what is happening. however sometimes there is a need to swerve to avoid a crash and the swerve test is just for that purpose. The purpose of the swerve is to demonstrate that the pupil is doing something called "counter steering", this is where if you turn the handle bars to the right the bike goes left. As to people falling off during the test this is invariable due to applying the front brake while swerving or applying heavy counter steer.. This is a basic mistake to make and best to do in a safe environment rather than on the road. A tyre has a finite grip and you decide how much of that is used for cornering, braking and acceleration. Using it for excessive cornering and harsh braking at the same time is asking for trouble. As an Observer & Tutor for the IAM & RoSPA we try to teach good observation, hazard awareness and counter steering as part of the preparation for the Advanced test. I think the new bike test is a step in the right direction but is still only a starting point to becoming a safe , smooth rider.
|
Guys, first of all I am not a motorcyclist, just an interested bystander!
Looking at that video, this doesn't seem too dangerous to me? I would imagine in real life circumstances this is about maybe going along a road at 30ish, seeing a pothole and swerving to avoid it? You wouldn't apply your brakes to do that?
In my driving test many years ago, the examiner hit the dashboard and you had to do an emergency stop. You knew it was coming, but not sure when exactly.
In this test the cones are laid out for a path, you know what you have to do, surely it shouldn't be that different to normal riding?
Or to put it another way, if a rider cannot perform a preplanned swerve like that should they be on the road?
|
BobbyG - I agree - they should be able to do the test.
However, one of the problems is that the swerve test is more difficult in the wet; It's suggested that the test is less severe in wet conditions.
|
Prior to passing through the swerve candidates have to reach 31mph - if they don't, they fail (I don't know how many goes they have at this).
This means the candidate's focus is on getting to 31mph and no more - because if they overshoot the target speed they'll then be going to fast for the swerve - and could panic brake.
With space to get to 31mph and then settle at that speed the swerve would be less intimidating I think.
The actual circumstances of these crashes could be different, I'm no expert, but it looks to me like it's the combination of accelerate - speed gun - swerve in a very short distance that's likely to be the problem.
(...and I can't see what this has got to do with the Sunday morning lunatics who spoil every sunny weekend for those of us who just like to get on and ride without putting ourselves or anyone else in danger. Not all of us are quite so casual about risk.)
|
|
|
|
|
