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The scheme is only until the end of March 2010.
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>>So that's the W124 done for then, NC
No, not a chance!, the W124 has done me well, but, I need much more from it yet!
I can't imagine that there will be that many people for whom the 2K is really going to change their car buying decision.
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I can't imagine that there will be that many people for whom the 2K is really going to change their car buying decision.
I'm glad you said that because I was thinking the same thing. Especially as it's near impossible to finance cars at the moment.
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It's purely a bonus for anyone who was thinking of changing - my parents for example.
The market for cars less than £1,000 could now get very interesting as what is now being sold is a voucher for £2,000 off a new car and not a form of transport!
I'm sure the devil will be in the detail.
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Yes, sounds like my bangernomics financial model might have to change then :-((. Unless the price of leggy 7 year old cars drops to 1K. I can but hope.
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It will be interesting to see how the market changes. In theory, two markets will perk up: new and sub-£2k bangers. It will hit nearly new cars, as the cost of new car has effectively dropped £2k? Environmental disaster, as it will kill a shedload of perfectly serviceable vehicles that have long paid off their manufacturing carbon debt.
Fickle government. Green is important, until king cash comes back. :-(
BW,
Alex.
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The Autocar and Motor has the details here:
www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/239681/
The gummint is only stumping up £1k of the £2k, they are expecting the manufacturers to find the other £1k. Methinks it might turn out to be a bit of a damp squib?
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Note that to benefit from the £2k you must have owned the car for a minimum of 12 months.
As the scheme will expire in March 2010, it's already to late to buy or sell an old motor to benefit from this.
You must have already bought one before March this year!
It will be interesting to see the effect on second hand prices, particularly at that end of the market. Keep the car and you might get £2k for it if you fancy a new one by next year, sell it and it will be near worthless as the next buyer will not be able to take advantage of the scheme...
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The Budget puts a cost of the scheme at £300m. That means, if they contribute £2000 per car they're expecting 150,000 cars to be scrapped and cars purchased under it. If they are expecting £1000 contribution per car that is 300,000 sales over the year.
If you guesstimate that half of these would have bought new cars anyway at best this appears to expect to sell and extra 150,000 cars over the coming year.
Manufacturers will not contribute £1000 towards it - they can't afford to at the current exchange rate. If they do, expect £1000 per model price increases across model ranges the day before they implement it.....
Like everything they do it is more confusing than it needs to be, the devil is in the detail and the actual figures do not appear to add up. No doubt to adminster it, they'll need to create a new "executive agency" with 1500 staff.
Cynical? Me?
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Well they did also say that they'd be creating 250,000 new jobs in deprived areas! Now you know how 1,500 of them will be created... :)
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Compare and contrast with the extra £3.6bn of fuel duties they announced...
Year after year, they get up and make a speech and then it turns out when you actually read the budget report (www.treasury.gov.uk) absolutely nothing actually said bears any relation to what is actually in the report with all the important "facts" omitted.
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Interesting there doesn't seem to be any requirement for how long the new car has to be kept, just that it has to be registered to the same person that the scrap car is registered to.
So, all I've got to do is find a purchaser of a new car who doesn't mind registering it to me for a day first and I could get a good price for my Kia Pride. ;>)
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im reserving my opinion on this subject till xmas
see how the land lies by then
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Given that the government is expecting the industry to stump up half the cost, and the industry is broke, I wouldn't have thought it will amount to anything in reality.
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Apparently the car being scrapped has to have an MOT. So by the time it's failed, which may be why you decide to get a new one, it's too late.
They only want you scrap good cars?
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Wow my Corsa must have doubled in value over night! I am not getting rid of it though, the bodywork is solid, the engine is still ok it would be an environmental crime to scrap a car like this as far as I am concerned.
Maybe when it starts to all go wrong and gets tatty the £2k scheme may help me get something newer bit as it stands I am very very against it, there are many many very good ten year old cars still on the road, there are also lots of 5 year old sheds which are dangerious and need scrapping.
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Oh dear, this makes me think of that feeling of despair you get when you realise that a once fairly bright person has started to do things for which there is no logical reason.....
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Rattle, I'm afraid it won't make a jot of difference to the value, as you can only claim on the scheme if you've owned the car for 12mths or more. So if you sold it on, the next buyer will get nowt as the scheme expires at the end of March next year. i.e. only people who have already bought a car that's 9 years or older already in March of this year (or before) can benefit.
Plus, you can only buy a new car (not nearly new or used) to claim your 2 grand. So really that 2k doesn't look a lot against expensive new cars...
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Yep I was being sarcastic when I said the value had increased :). I reckon it may add £30-£50 it to though as people may think well if it lasts 18 months it can be used towards a new car.
However the sort of car I would be would be a Panda or a C1, so if I got £2k for my Corsa that means I could get a brand new car for £4k. However due to the effects of supply and demand I am sure new cars will be more expensive by then.
Since I bought my Corsa in mid march and by next March my car will be 10.5 years old it seems I could just about qualify. The MOT will expire in Feb 10 though although I tend to get things fixed before they fail an MOT so it should not be an issue.
It might help my dad as his car fits perfectly into the qualifying cars but despite the problems we have had lately its still a well speced reliable car it may be almost 12 years old but it does the job. Like you say they then need the money to buy a new car and my dads car would cost around £12k new (Fiesta Ghia) so the cost to change like for like is still £10k so pointless.
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Oh OK! :)
Since £1k must come from the manufacturer and they'll increase their prices (or do less deals, same thing!) to compensate, I'll be amazed if the scheme takes off.
However, it's done very well in France and Germany, so maybe there are plenty of folk with money to burn and older cars on the driveway who might take the chance to save a few quid.
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Yeah stupid people who actually believe they are getting something for nothng most likely.
.*********
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Now anybody seen that £5 I have just lost? Oh [swear word of your choice] has just taken it to pay for her new Kia!
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In Germany they have been offering ?5000 per car not £1000 - bit of a difference.
However, not everyone is in favour. It has put a lot of garages out of business, distorted the used car market and Mercedes for one have been highly critical as most of the extra cars sold have been non-German makes or Spanish built Polos.
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I was one of the (few?) people with a 10-year-old car and a bit of money in the bank, and I've been watching the scrappage proposals with interest. I can't see how they can ensure that the £1000 'manufacturer contribution' does not simply take the place of existing discounts that anyone can get with a bit of shopping around. Given the apparent tightness of margins for manufacturers (especially given the weakness of the £), surely prices will have to go up to cover it or the structuring of dealer sales incentives will have to change to cover it?
In practice, it seems likely that it will equate to an extra £1000 on top of existing discounts, subject to scrapping your old car, and perhaps a couple of hundred quid extra from manufacturers to demonstrate good will. But my 'banger' would fetch £700 at trade in, or more if I sold it myself, and so the incentive suddenly looks pretty small. And of course it's going to be on newly registered cars only, presumably so that most of the expense is recouped in VAT receipts. That might work in Germany where prevailing discounts on list price are lower (giving manufacturers leaway to match the government incentive) and the differential between new and nearly new cars is relatively small, but here, where even a pre-registration on an earlier plate can save perhaps 20% on the discounted price, and the economics for someone like me start to look pretty unpalatable.
So unless my analysis is dramatically wrong, I'll be putting my car in for the service I've been postponing, buy a couple of new tyres and getting my chipped windscreen replaced. Meanwhile the whole of the car market and associated businesses get subjected to all the unforeseen consequences of this market distortion that we're starting to hear about - garages out of business, billions wiped off the resale value of fleet and rental vehicles (not that I'll be shedding tears on that front), money that would have been spent elsewhere in the economy going into cars that people would have bought in 18 months' time anyway. Oh, and perfectly serviceable cars sent to the scrapheap, to be replaced by new cars that may well emit more CO2, since the 'green rationale' behind the whole thing--dubious in the first place--has been quietly forgotten altogether.
What a mess.
Edited by gpmartin on 22/04/2009 at 19:26
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I haven't been following this thread so apologies if someone else has pointed this out, but how many people with a ten year old car arre going to be in the position to finance a new one? Sounds like the sort of idea dreamed up by some clueless wonder who doesn't drive and has no grasp of economics.
Oh, wait a minute...
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Apologies if this appears above, I haven't read it all.
It appears it's going to be a very limited scheme, with just £300K allocated, so will only apply to 150,000 cars on that basis.
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>crunch time
300,000 cars as the Government only stumps up £1,000.
Typical Government: industry gives £1,000.
As Citroen already reduce prices by more than £1,000 - unless they do more, your £500 banger with MOT will only save you a net £500.
Rearrange the following words into a well known phrase " drinking session, brewery in, organise not could".
We COULD afford to buy a new car, my son could as well, we both have perfectly good cars over 10 years old, with MOTs and with lots of life left in them...
The scheme does not appear very attractive... so the old ones will sailor on.
Promise a lot, deliver less = disappointment imo.
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Just thinking about this a bit more. I guess there are three main users of ten year old + cars. Those who can't afford a new one, those who don't choose to afford a new one and those who are fond of old cars. Have I missed a significant group ?
So, right then, who exactly are the people who are now going to rush to buy a new one under this scheme.
The ones who would need a lot of credit ?
Maybe not.
The ones who previously chose not to put a lot of money on the road ?
May not be in too much of a hurry.
The old car enthusiast ?
What, scrap their pride and joy ?
Nonsense.
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The government part is probably self funding anyway; a car costing £10k carries around £1,300 in VAT in the price.
Gordon gives you £1,000 so you can give him £1,300. Now some people would have bought a new car anyway, but I bet the net effect is more cash to the treasury to fritter...oops, spend ;-)
Peter
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The Germans allow 9 year old cars to be scrapped, and the figure is 2.5K Euros, but has been a success in selling Polish/East European cars- not Merks. How strange.
Any idiot would tell you a Merk buyer is hardly likely to be influenced by a trivial sum , would not pay for the radio upgrade.
I think the whole thing will be lost in the murcky (!) world of discounts and prices rises.
Oh ,in Germany the car has to be scapped, scrapper delaers are in custody for selling cars on!
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Promise a lot deliver less = disappointment imo.
This government in a nutshell.
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Strange how the car has been seen as the villain in recent years, taxed to the skies and yet the Govt. is prepared to borrow money to throw at this daft policy.
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A sad waste of money that we can ill afford. Those running a 10 year old car - for whatever reason - are the least likely to buy new, and if they do it is likely to be a cheap import.
Furthermore it's extremely ungreen to scrap something that works, especially if it's doing low mileage as the majority of these cars will be.
Do they ever think anything through? Or is it just a cynical bit of grandstanding at our expense?
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seeing as only hyundai have confirmed they will join the scrappage scheme so far its all a bit of a damp squib
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Great so we will just get more bland Pony type things on the road :( its not like the people buying Hyundai Coupes will be influenced by this :(
To make it worse I bet Lada suddenly comes back and joins in :(
The labour government - Britian is not ruined yet, so lets continue to make it worse.
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Great so we will just get more bland Pony type things The labour government - Britian is not ruined yet so lets continue to make it worse.
i think it was johnny rotten who replied when asked "the countrys in a right state what can YOU do about it ?"
"make it worse" he replied
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Funny you should mention that, I have been angry all night about that lost £5 of mine so have been listening to the Sex Pistols, The Clash, The Damned and Goldblade (not many people know them!) all night!
I really wish I had the energy and passion to start a big friendly riot or at least a protest but the sad fact is I don't really care about anything anymore. I don't even know what Britian is anymore.
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Just a total 'con!' - but totally in keeping with the other 'cons' this Government has perpetuated over the past 9 years or so. Where is the £2,000? - the only two cars, whereby the '£2,000' might just apply are the Fiat500 and the Mini, niether of which are available with discounts [notwithstanding 'Drivethedeal' are offering a few hundred off a Mini] Having said that, I'm not convinced BMW will be signing up, and while Fiat will be pleased to sign up for their 'run of the mill' they will be loath to do so for their beloved 500. In other words, the scheme is a total farce...but then again, no one should be really surprised!
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am no New Labourite , but at least the Gov't are trying something - stop knocking till we know the outcome ?
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>>am no New Labourite , but at least the Gov't are trying something
...trying hopelessly to prop up their own image and popularity with our money is all I can see. I think we're entitled to heckle.
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"In Germany they have been offering ?5000 per car not £1000 - bit of a difference."
As mentioned above, the German figure is ?2500 not ?5000.
And the headline "40% increase in sales" is March 2009 vs March 2008. Year-to-date sales are up 18%.
"Volkswagen has emerged as the biggest winner, with sales of more than 190,000 under the scheme, while Skoda has sold 80,000 cars. VW has decided to continue producing its Polo, which was due to be phased out. Fiat and Suzuki have also seen sales soar."
From:
tinyurl.com/GermanScrappage
Other countries: "Italian car sales increased for the first time in a year, while French sales rose by 8.1% and declines slowed in Spain".
See also:
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8003508.stm
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>>Where is the £2 000? -the only two cars whereby the '£2 000' might just apply are the Fiat500 and the Mini niether of which are available with discounts
Where did you get the thought that there would only be two cars?
Volvo are in (according to HJ) and at 9pm last night there was a Citroen ad on TV which mentioned £2,000 'scrappage' allowance, so they were on the ball with ads ready to roll as the scheme was confirmed.
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The Citroen ad, while referring to several models in their range, appeared to only offer the incentive on one.
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Where did you get the thought that there would only be two cars?
Simple, - the participating dealer's £1000 contribution will replace the massive discounts [check out various internet discount sites] presently on offer, resulting in no cash advantage whatsoever!
This is what many of the messages on this discussion are in effect saying [don't take my word - check them out!]
Mini and the Fiat 500 are about the only cars currently not attracting discounts, thus a genuine £2,000 advantage would apply [assuming the qualifying car to be scapped had a NIL value!]
As I said, it is a 'con' and if you can't 'see it' ........
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