Car scrappage scheme Vol 3. [Read Only]  
Citroen Scrappage Allowance no sell-on clause?! - bell boy
citroen to me is the only manufacturer that understands the working man and his brain and have had an excellant sales idea for the last 4 years
i think they are just making sure you dont dilute the market by trying to sell your bargain in the first year and are unhappy at what it might lose
the answer as i always say is if you aint happy dont buy
next--------------

Tags: buying new cars used cars legal and consumer advice

Citroen Scrappage Allowance no sell-on clause?! - Altea Ego
do you really think you will get a profit on the sale of the C4?


you bought it for 10.5k you will be lucky to sell it for that because anyone can do what your doing

Citroen Scrappage Allowance no sell-on clause?! - Focus {P}
you bought it for 10.5k you will be lucky to sell it for that because
anyone can do what your doing


But I haven't got a 10 year old car, so shouldn't I be interested in perhaps paying the OP say 11.5k for it, leaving him with a 1k profit?
Citroen Scrappage Allowance no sell-on clause?! - Peter S
Hello. I've heard of similar restrictions in the past; they're often used in conjunction with manufacturer's discounted car purchase schemes for staff, so I can see why they might apply them to other deep discount sales. How binding the agreement is though I don't know.

I am struggling to understand why you think anyone will buy a used Citroen C4 from you for £12,500 when new ones are available for the same price or less though... are you sure you'll be able to sell it on?

Peter
Citroen Scrappage Allowance no sell-on clause?! - nick1975
I'll give you £8.5k for it
Citroen Scrappage Allowance no sell-on clause?! - Lygonos
I bought a C2 VTS for £8500 in 2006 (brand new) - got the same for it as a trade-in 6 mths later, and that was after haggling a fat discount off the CR-V I bought.

The salesman told me "you know Citroen discount these quite hard so that's why we can only offer you that, even though it's only 6 mths old".

I just nodded sagely but thought it best not to say what I had paid for it.

I certainly wasn't asked not to sell the car on within a year - which is probably not even legal as the goods are yours to use/abuse as soon as you buy them.
Citroen Scrappage Allowance no sell-on clause?! - Altea Ego
as the goods are yours to use/abuse as soon as
you buy them.


Not if he is buying pre registered (registered to the garage) they may hold the v5 for a year.
Citroen Scrappage Allowance no sell-on clause?! - ForumNeedsModerating
Full marks to the Citroen dealer in the OP & the dealer who sold the CR-V against the C2.

Both used excellent psychology to sell their product. The Citroen has convinced the OP that it's such a 'bargain' they will even try to stop him re-selling it! (impossible of course - it would be your property to do with as you please..) In the 2nd instance (the C2 chop for CR-V) the buyer is convinced the trade-in price was the signifigant part of the deal, whereas the dealer probably knows the CR-V was overpriced even at the deal price.

Edited by woodbines on 30/04/2009 at 09:27

Citroen Scrappage Allowance no sell-on clause?! - oldnotbold
The idea that you could sell the C4 at a profit is remarkable. I'm impressed at your optimism, and can only assume that you have a job advising Alastair Darling about the economy.
Citroen Scrappage Allowance no sell-on clause?! - oldnotbold
"But I haven't got a 10 year old car, so shouldn't I be interested in perhaps paying the OP say 11.5k for it, leaving him with a 1k profit? "

In a couple of weeks the Scrappage Scheme froth will have subsided, and car sales guys will have to work for sales again, and the deals will return. I'm certain that a cash buyer (as you would have to be to buy the OP's C4) will be able to get £2k off list just by walking into the showroom, without an bargaining at all.

Edited by oldnotbold on 30/04/2009 at 10:11

Citroen Scrappage Allowance no sell-on clause?! - Focus {P}
I'm certain that a cash buyer will be able to get £2k off list
just by walking into the showroom without any bargaining at all.


But it would be £4k off list, not £2k (OP said list = £15.8k)
Citroen Scrappage Allowance no sell-on clause?! - oldnotbold
"But it would be £4k off list, not £2k (OP said list = £15.8k)"

Fair enough - what deals were available on the C4 before the rumours/introduction of the scrappage scheme?
Citroen Scrappage Allowance no sell-on clause?! - oldnotbold
www.buyacar.co.uk/detailyq22623.jhtml

Citroen C4 1.6HDi 16V SX [110] 5dr £4663 off list
Citroen Scrappage Allowance no sell-on clause?! - Focus {P}
Citroen C4 1.6HDi 16V SX [110] 5dr £4663 off list


Are you sure that doesn't include scrappage? There's a similar deal on drivethedeal, where they make it clear that the price includes a £2k scrappage discount.
Citroen Scrappage Allowance no sell-on clause?! - oldnotbold
Just called them - that's the deal, no scrappage included, but scrappage may not be added to that deal.
Citroen Scrappage Allowance no sell-on clause?! - Focus {P}
Just called them - that's the deal no scrappage included but scrappage may not be
added to that deal.


Looks like a good deal then - no need to wait another 2 years for my 2001 Focus to be worth something :-)
Citroen Scrappage Allowance no sell-on clause?! - Focus {P}
Sorry to go on, but I don't quite understand - doesn't the dealer/Citroen get £1k from the govt as part of the scrappage deal? If so, then shouldn't you still be able to get that off any deal that doesn't include proof of scrappage (such as this one)?
Citroen Scrappage Allowance no sell-on clause?! - oldnotbold
I've no idea - ask them.
Citroen Scrappage Allowance no sell-on clause?! - Focus {P}
Having read HJ's item www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/item.htm?id=6065 I guess it's because the govt's £1k has to be matched by the manufacturer.

EDIT: ...but the manufacturer's £1k could come out of the pre-discount price... I'm getting confused

Edited by Focus {P} on 30/04/2009 at 12:03

Citroen Scrappage Allowance no sell-on clause?! - Collos25
There all the same they have an artificially high retail price to make you think they are giving you a good discount with or without a worthless trade in you can buy certain models of C4 for £10.5k.
Citroen Scrappage Allowance no sell-on clause?! - Focus {P}
with or without a worthless trade in you
can buy certain models of C4 for £10.5k.


Surely that £1k from the govt must mean you can get a better deal if you can provide a scrappage certificate?
Citroen Scrappage Allowance no sell-on clause?! - SteVee
With regard to the OP - unless he is buying with cash (or a personal loan) then he will have trouble selling the car. Who is going to buy a second hand car, with cash, when the first owner has an outstanding loan on the car ?

I think the only potential buyer would be someone with very dubious motives - and for that reason, I'm out.

If you don't want to keep the car for at least a year, then it doesn't look a good deal.

There are doubtless some very good deals at the moment - and there certainly seems to be people in the showrooms now.
Citroen Scrappage Allowance no sell-on clause?! - Altea Ego
Surely that £1k from the govt must mean you can get a better deal if
you can provide a scrappage certificate?


No. Ok Citroen uk will have a deal thats 1k better off to them (probably less after all the admind and government carp is taken out) BUT they would stil have sold it to you at that price anyway.

The bottom line is scrapage (on some models makes of cars) is a con - valueless. All it is is government sponsored and paid for advertising.
Citroen Scrappage Allowance no sell-on clause?! - Bill Payer
my plan was to sell-on the C4 for a 2K profit as the list price is around £15800.


Sorry, but that's just hilarious.

I did momentarily feel sorry for you, but perhaps, although you don't want to discuss the misues of taxpayers money, there may well be a legal position that you have to keep the car (or maybe repay the allowance) - have all the fine details of the scheme been made available yet?
Car scrappage scheme Vol 3. [Read Only] - Pugugly

***** This thread is now closed, please CLICK HERE to go to Volume 4 *****


Current debate on the scheme. This is latest volume.

Previous Volumes can be found below.

Volume one

Volume two

Edited by Webmaster on 21/05/2009 at 19:15

Citroen Scrappage Allowance no sell-on clause?! - samjones
Hi,

im a first time user and your help/advice is appreciated.

I had heard the goverment might be bringing this (Scappage Allowance) in at some undetermined point in the future at least 3 weeks before they actually announced it in the budget.

I rang around different dealers 3 weeks ago to see if anyone knew about it, or was doing it. Most had no clue and all said they wont do it (at the time), except for Citroen who said they could do it on the C4 range. Now my car is off the road since end of March with no road tax and no MOT yet they said yes to giving me the £2000 off on top of the discounts they would give anyway (C4 1.6Hdi Cachet special edition for £10500).

I said yes to the deal as there was no way of me getting £2000 for my own car and my plan was to sell-on the C4 for a 2K profit as the list price is around £15800). I ordered it the day after the budget and now, before i take delivery, they want me to sign a agreement saying i cant sell it on for 1 year! Without wanting to get into the use/misuse of taxpayers money etc debate can anyone please advise me on the legal standpoint. Surely they cant force me to keep something i already own!!!

thanks
Car scrappage scheme Vol 3. - Roly93
Letter in yesterdays Daily Mail from a gent who wanted to use the scrappage scheme. In brief, the gentleman saw a car he wanted to buy which was £17k list price on the road, reduced to £13K on the road.

When he started to place on order he was told that the £2K scrappage scheme only applied to the 'List' price, so to us e the scheme he would have been £2K out of pocket !

This is exactly what I had predicted would happen, ie the dealers would absourb this money with no advantage at all to the punters.
Car scrappage scheme Vol 3. - Mr X
Whilst the British Motorists is subject to the belief that they are all monsters who are killing the environment, it seems a different view is held in Germany. One of the reasons given for our scrappage scheme, alongside that of helping the car industry, was the usual bit about old polluting cars needing to be taken off the roads.

'The car industry had lobbied the government to pay a subsidy of £2,000 per car, rather than just £1,000. A similar scheme in Germany was launched back in December, and the government there pays the larger amount. Unlike the British plan, it also includes cars up to one-year-old."
tinyurl.com/pzy7a3

What possible justification can there be for scrapping cars of one year old. ?

Car scrappage scheme Vol 3. - b308
I don't know if there is any connection, but they are also a lot stricter on vehicles that can enter many towns and cities in Germany too...
Car scrappage scheme Vol 3. - LondonBus
Details of scrappage now appearing on manufacturers websites - Renault, Nissan, Hyundai.


I've got my eye on an i10 1.2 Comfort to replace our old VW Polo. At £5.5k (incl. scrappage) its a bit of Billy Bargain. Although since I want to order it with ESP, I'm going to try and see if there's much room for haggling.

Test drive in 30 minutes at our local Hyundai dealer.
Skoda scrappage allowance - DaveC
I just checked on the Skoda website and, for the Skoda 3 Tiptronic hatchback I'm interested in buying, the price using their "VAT free" offer is £11620. If I scrap my R reg fiesta in as part of the scrappage scheme, the price is £10760.

The difference is £860. So it would seem that Skoda are not even passing on the £1000 the government is contributing.

So much for the £2000 scrappage deal. It's understandable now why the news channels are reporting that people are not interested in taking advantage of it.

Skoda scrappage allowance - b308
Is it not "up to" £2000?
Skoda scrappage allowance - niceguyeddy
I would repoert them to the Government if I was you.
Skoda scrappage allowance - daveyjp
Two different offers - VAT free or scrappage, not a combination of both.

No different to discounts on other products where only one voucher, or only one option can be taken.

IIRC Citroen state their scrappage scheme 'replaces' the cash back offer - one or the other.
Scrappage- good cheap cars will be hard to find - niceguyeddy
Long time since my last posting as just been too busy selling used cars.

Anyways if you are in the market for a good little cheap runner buy now because if our garage is anything to go on there will soon be a dire shortage of them.

Currently we are selling about 8 - 10 Aygo's and Yaris a week under the scrappage system.

The cars to be scrapped are not the old rusty nails we were expecting but genuine nice oldish cars which have to be scrapped... sure were taking the odd banger in but not many.

IMHO this will take out a large segment of available cars for those people who can only or want to spend £1000 ish on a car.

This weekend so far getting send to the crusher is a nice S reg Mondeo with only 50000 miles, a really genuine and 1 owner 60000 mile P reg Fiesta 5 door LX and a nice old Cavalier which is easyily good for a few years more.

In normal times these would have been send to the local auctions where they would have passed into the hands of a happy new owner ... not anymore.

This will have the effect of those cars still available possibly rising in price or forcing the "banger" driver to spend more money on something newer still.

250 Toyota dealers in the UK x a conservative 10 deals a month each x 10 months = 25000 less old cars .. say 50% of these are nice old cars then thats approx 12500 less cars to go around ... now take into account all the other franchises and thats a huge number !

Whether it continues at this pace is difficult to say but time will tell.
Scrappage- good cheap cars will be hard to find - massey
Has the government scrappage scheme started yet?

Thought it didn't start till 18th May
Scrappage- good cheap cars will be hard to find - niceguyeddy
We cant supply the new car to the customer however we can take "enquiries" and "potential" orders.

Very high level of interest so far .... may die down but will got busier before that happens I reckon.
Scrappage- good cheap cars will be hard to find - BobbyG
Eddie thats a very interesting post.
My sister has a C3 and her daughter an S Reg Peugeot 206. My sister was on phone earlier saying she is looking to give the C3 to daughter and trade/scrap the 206 in for a C1/Aygo/107.

I looked on the Citroen website and they have their usual cashback deals but these don't apply with the scrappage deal. So if she goes Citroen (as its local) then she doesn't get the full £2k in effect as she loses the cashback deal.

With the Aygo is it a case of straight list price minus 2k or should she be looking for a discount off list as well?

She previously had a Toyota Picnic and loved all things Toyota, I might suggest she looks in that direction. I realise as 206 is in daughter's name, the new car would need to be as well.
Scrappage- good cheap cars will be hard to find - bell boy
niceguyeddy get the end of life certificate
chop out the chassis numbers so it cant be reregistered in this country and arrange for them to be shipped to eastern europe

you will get at least £200 per car
give the scrappy the weigh in value and you have a nice little earner thats legal in the letter of the law
Scrappage- good cheap cars will be hard to find - niceguyeddy
Yes dead transparent with Toyota.

Register new car in daughters then change over when log book comes from Swansea .. not against the rules to do this. ( I think ? )

As for further discount you will need to speak to dealer however we have to put £250 into the deal on every Aygo we sell to make up the £2000 ( £1000 from Government. £750 Toyota and £250 from the Dealer) so we dont give anything else as not worth selling car otherwise.
Scrappage scheme - Phil F.
Hi,
My wifes old Clio auto is going to need some money spending on it shortly,and my
local Hyundai dealer tells me she can have a nice shiny i10 comfort auto for £6,250.
She really likes this idea...naturally!
We have not had a test drive yet,but on the face of it it looks a good package,including
a proper 4 speed auto,aircon,alloys etc.
I am guessing that this will neither be as comfortable or as nippy as the old clio,but the
attraction of a new reliable motor,with 5yrs warranty is tempting.
Has anybody got the auto version please?....any good?
Any other new cars in this size/price a better buy?
Thanks....Phil.
Scrappage scheme - LondonBus
Hi Phil.
We've just bought an i10 manual, 1.2 Comfort. No view from us on autos.

The 1.2 is fantastic - good on the motorway and has the right amount of poke.

Price is good too. We've taken advantage of scrappage on our 1997 VW Polo; Cost of a 1.2 Comfort with ESP in solid red paint to us with scrappage is £5.8k.


The 1.2 is nippier than our 1.4 Polo. Parkers has facts and figures on old and new cars - and is useful to help get an idea of facts and figures.


The delivery lead time is 3 months - not just because we wanted ESP - but also because Hyundai has minimal stocks of the i10 Comfort 1.2 in this country - We ordered from Hyundai London which is a factory owned franchise.

Edited by LondonBus on 09/05/2009 at 19:16

Scrappage scheme - Phil F.
Hi Londonbus,
Thanks for that,good luck with your new motor mate.
Our local dealer apparently now has 350 cars on order off the back of this scrappage
sceme!...We would have to wait 3-4 months also but thats no problem.
HJ seems to like the i10,but have seen some reports that the ride is a bit hard.
I cannot actually see another new small auto for this money,but will be happy to be
corrected,
cheers,
Phil.
Scrappage scheme - LondonBus
Hi Phil,

The ride is actually quite soft - the car copes well with potholes. The body does have quite a bit of roll - probably a function of the high driving position - which is more like our Almera Tino MPV than a Polo...
Scrappage scheme - tintin01
I can't remember where, but I think I saw an advert for the Fiat Panda which said that under the Fiat/scrappage scheme you could get one for £5k.

We have an i10 Comfort manual and are very happy with it. The 5 year warranty, high spec level, and £35 road tax clinched it for my OH. The Panda seems well liked though and £5k seems a bargain. If you google Fiat Panda for £5000 UK, it comes up with news articles about the offer. HTH.

edit: our Hyundai dealer has offered us a servicing deal recently. I can't remember the exact figure - I think it is £18 a month, and gives you 5 years servicing.

Edited by tintin01 on 09/05/2009 at 20:15

Scrappage scheme - LondonBus
tintin - Fiat's website details the options on the Panda. I did look at it - but the i10 was more appealing...
Scrappage scheme - Talking Hoarse
Though I would bring this back to the top as it has gone quiet!

I too am tempted to part with my end-of-life shed (an old Clio used as a 2nd car). Whilst I would otherwise look for a small estate car, I am too tempted by a new low end buy. Looked at the Picanto, the Panda, the i10, the Aveo etc, but although they are all perfectly OK there was nothing to tempt me to part with my money.
Disappointed that I cannot get a Vauxhall or a Ford at anything near to the same money as the above, It seems to me that many cars (eg Panda) are not even going to be anyhing like £2000 cheaper than they were a few weeks back (eg via discount websites).

My favourite at the moment seems to be a Fox or a Twingo, both at less than £5k. But then I am also tempted to wait a month or 2 for the competition to hot up a bit more.

Any wise comments?
Scrappage scheme - Phil F.
Hi,
Talking Hoarse....If what i have been told today by a Hyundai dealer is correct,if you leave it for a month or two you may be disappointed!
I am interested in the i10 auto but the dealer has two left out of his allocation due to
immense interest in this scheme.He is saying that by the time stock becomes available
again,either manufacturers price will have risen or government subsidy cash will have
run out,such has been the demand.
Cheers,
Phil.
Scrappage scheme - Talking Hoarse
Good point - thanks PhilF.
However I am always dubious of such dealer tales, ie are they just an attempt to put pressure on us to sign? AND ...... I have just received an email that shows that Arnold Clark is doing better deals on Fords & Vauxhalls & Clios than I had heard of previously /elsewhere.
So maybe there will be competition for my money!

Scrappage scheme - loonykev
FWIW, I bought a base model Citroen C1 on 20th March - cash price £6295. It seems that the price now after scrappage trade-in deduction is £6395. It appears that the alleged Government contribution of £1000 is yet more smoke and mirrors. I would be interested to find out how much the Government actually pays the dealer/manufacturer.
Scrappage scheme - sierraman
What possible justification can there be for scrapping cars of one year old. ?

They mean the scheme in Germany allows the purchase of cars up to one year old.

If some of the cars brought in for 'scrappage'( a made up word,it should be scrapping) are quite good and could be sold for £1000,then the gain is only £1000.
Scrappage scheme - Cliff Pope
a made up word it should
be scrapping>>



"Scrapping" is the wrong part of speech. There is no word to describe a whole system of regulated scrapping, documentation, and authorised payment, as is required here. So it is quite reasonable to construct one using the regular rules for doing so in the English language, by analogy with haulage, wastage, postage, etc.

Edited by Cliff Pope on 14/05/2009 at 11:34

Scrappage scheme question - Rattle
Going to bed in a minute if my back pain goes. Anyway as I am trying to sleep I just thought of something my car will never qualify the scrappage scheme it is too new by a massive 20 days.

My dads however is a perfect target for the scrappage scheme, its 12 years old in December and he has owned it for 2 years. I intend to keep my Corsa for a while yet and my dads car is still servicable. However say in March next year as the scheme is about to end what is to stop my dad trading in his Fiesta for a new Panda which he can't afford then. I would then buy it off him and give him my Corsa so he gets a late 99 car instead of a 97 one?

Is their any clause to stop people from doing this little trick?

{moves to the dedicated thread for this subject}

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 15/05/2009 at 10:09

New £2,000 car incentive, another downside. - FotheringtonThomas
From "The Daily Telegraph":

"
New £2,000 car incentive will be wiped out in just 88 days.

From Monday, owners of cars 10 years old or more will get £2,000 if they trade in their old model and buy a new one.

But according to price comparison company uSwitch.com, vehicle depreciation is set to be the ?thorn in the side? of the scrappage scheme.

The company said on average, the initial £2,000 incentive is wiped out in depreciation in just 88 days of owning the new car.
"

Not sure why people aren't still nearly £2,000 up on the deal, though (assuming value of "trade-in" = 0).

Edited by FotheringtonThomas on 15/05/2009 at 14:08

New £2,000 car incentive, another downside. - bell boy
if someone else tells me they are thinking of buying a new panda for 5 bags of sand im going to scweem and scweem till im sick
and i can you know
New £2,000 car incentive, another downside. - Rattle
Hehe guess what one of my friends has just gone and done...... It was a toss up between a Kia Picanto and a Fiat Panda. He does have a 13 year old Fiesta though which is scrap ready unlike a lot of the cars which are getting scrapped.
New £2,000 car incentive, another downside. - Lud
and i can you know


Heh heh Violet Elizabeth... How's Hubert's black eye? You are a man of true culture bb...

:o}
New £2,000 car incentive, another downside. - TheOilBurner
I'm amazed that it would take as long as 88 days to wipe out £2k.

I always work on the premise that the second you drive away from the dealers you've lost at least £1k on profit margins + warranties etc, that you will never see again.

Probably double that for larger cars.

Maybe they mean £2k more than normal depreciation as there might be a run of cars appearing on the market from this scheme as the owners realise they can't afford the monthly payments and sell up in vast numbers?
New £2,000 car incentive, another downside. - Rattle
It depends on the car. The Panda activa my mate is buying won't loose much as it was not worth much to start with. It will be the Fiesta/Corsa class of cars which suffer the most I would have thought.
New £2,000 car incentive, another downside. - bonzodog
Except of course, that no one has "lost" any money at all. Car buyers, the media & accountants only use this term because the product they are buying actually has a resaleable value after the customer has decided they have no further use for it.

No one says "I lost £2.49 on that pint of bitter", because the residue doesn't have a monetary value!

Besides, the Telegraph is talking out of it's ##### as I reckon the £2,000 is worth £65 a month on a 36 month finance deal
New £2,000 car incentive, another downside. - Honestjohn
Rattle got it in one. A KIA Picanto, Hyundai i10, FIAT Panda Eco, VW Fox, etc, is not going to drop £2k on the price paid in 88 days. Might drop £2k on list, though.

HJ

New £2,000 car incentive, another downside. - Rattle
And this is the other issue which I think has been discussed on here in the past that the cars are now suddenly more expensive. A say a Panda activa is £7k list so thats £5k on the scrappage but I am sure a year ago you could buy these cars new for £6k anyway?

My mate will get a good deal on the Panda though as his current car is only worth scrap value anyway. He instends to keep it for about four years so even if he only gets £2500 for it when he sells it he has got a brand new car for not very much money.

I am still tempted by a brand new car sometime next year as I am just sick of all the worry about various rattles and knocks you get from older small cars.
New £2,000 car incentive, another downside. - TheOilBurner
Don't forget, even brand new cars can be a lot of trouble. The only brand new car we ever had was one of the worst in terms of reliability, especially in the first 6-9 months. It was a '98 Fiesta 1.4 Ghia X. Problems with electrics, fuel leaks, brake failures etc.
New £2,000 car incentive, another downside. - Rattle
Yep but at least it should be under warranty. The problem I have not being a mechanic is knowing what is just an old car sound and what is the sound of your wheel falling off :p

I was lucky when I bought my current car that the history was so good and I am pretty certain its never had a bump (all the date codes mach etc) but with a lot of used cars I seem to find evidence of previous accidents within a few days of ownership, at least with a brand new car you know its never had a bump (bumps can affect safety).

I think scrapapge cars (e.g Pandas etc) are a good buy for a town car which is just used int he city and if you keep it for several years.

I know new cars are not always reliable though. My dads bangers do go wrong but in terms of ownership costs they have all been dirt cheap to run - a lot cheaper than the cost of any new car.
New £2,000 car incentive, another downside. - TheOilBurner
Yep but at least it should be under warranty. The problem I have not being
a mechanic is knowing what is just an old car sound and what is the
sound of your wheel falling off :p


I know what you're saying, but don't underestimate the stress and hassle of repeated visits to dealers to get problems sorted, especially intermittent ones, which as well all know, never happen when the dealer tests the car!
at least with a brand new car you
know its never had a bump (bumps can affect safety).

Hmm, the reason our Fiesta had fuel leaks was because the fuel tank was cracked. Manufacturing defect or did it happen during delivery, maybe the transporter driver messed up. Who can tell?

But I have heard said here many times about brand new cars picking up scrapes before the first owner collects them. A quick trip to the body shop and often the customer is none the wiser...
New £2,000 car incentive, another downside. - Rattle
Scrapes are one thing but a head on needing new wings, slam panel, suspension etc. The problem is these are easy to spot but not always until you have bought the car.

If I had 5k to spend I would be too tempted by a nearly new proper supermini like a Fiesta but I do see the appeal of the sprappage scheme despite its flaws.
New £2,000 car incentive, another downside. - the swiss tony
Scrapes are one thing but a head on needing new wings slam panel suspension etc.


Yes Rattle, no new cars have ever had major damage repaired........ (snigger.......)
The problem is these are easy to spot but not always until you have bought
the car.


Depends how well the repairs been done - on a new car paint is easier to match, no ingrained dirt - just remember to clean off the part number labels!

Edited by the swiss tony on 15/05/2009 at 19:07

New £2,000 car incentive, another downside. - datostar
Very true. My son worked for a while as Panelbeater/Sprayer at the VW plant in Emden which has its own port for export of Passats built there and import of vehicles from Portugal and Mexico. His department repaired brand new cars, both entering and leaving the port. Often quite substantial jobs such as cars falling off the top deck of a transporter!
scrappage. The small print - slowdown avenue
Its due out today.can somebody enlighten us
scrappage. The small print - Honestjohn
Top of the page. 'How Will Carbuyers Benefit From the Scrappage Scheme?

HJ
scrappage. The small print - Ben 10
I'm slightly miffed. I am in full employment and work hard. I have some cash to put down on a new car. I've been waiting for a Ford/Vauxhall 0% finance deal and four years to pay to arrive since last year. It hasn't come my way. But it has, for a select portion of the nation. Now there are incentives for those driving rust buckets to get a new car.

I am supplying the manufacturers and the prospective buyers with my money(taxes) for this to happen. Why shouldn't I be entitled to a little help to keep the industry running. No, its the average man in the street who finances his own cars, pays his taxes and has to benefit others that gets my goat.

This could potentially turn into the sub prime lending fiasco all over again. Take a bloke who runs a 1999 Ford Escort. He runs such a vehicle because thats what his pocket can afford. The motor industry offer him a fantastic package to get rid and buy a spanking new car , subsidised by the likes of me and you, and take on interest free credit with no deposit.

Couple of years down the line he loses his job or the job he is in doesn't pay enough for him to keep up payments. He hands the car back. On a bigger scale, hundreds if not thousands of cars are repossed. What will that do for the economy. Manufacturers placed into further debt. Is the UK government going to underwrite the idea?

I cannot see the sense of the programme where the only winners initially will be the car makers and the losers long term will be us. It's a credit nightmare and a sub prime principal aimed at car ownership. I predict in a few years a right mess.

Why can't those of us that can afford to pay our way not be enticed with a nice package. I could certainly pay my way and see the finance through to the end.
At the moment we are financing others to aspire to owning a new car.Who might not have the financial muscle to see it through. The car adverts are dominated by the scrappage scheme. And I am not eligable. And the cash in my pocket ain't good enough for them.

Has the financial sector learned nothing over the past year. A temporary lift to the economy that will, Europe wide, return to bit them on the preverbial backside.
scrappage. The small print - isisalar
Spood
Glad to hear you're in 'full employment' and you would like to buy a new car.How can you be so certain that you would continue in this employment for the time you would be paying off your finance agreement.What if 'a couple of years down the line 'you loose your job.Is your job that bulletproof?
If it is you must be working for the government local or otherwise in which case it's 'the man in the street who pays his taxes 'who is paying your wages.
Stop wingeing.
scrappage. The small print - Ben 10
I'm not whinging. I just think the scheme is unfair to the majority. And yes, my job IS bulletproof.
l am concerned for the majority that this scheme could make the economy worse off and create more unemployment long term, prelonging the recession. Hope you are in employment and don't mind your taxes going up in the near future to pay for these hand outs.
scrappage. The small print - loskie
Not quite true. I run a 1999 Octavia with 160000 miles on it but could afford to go and buy a car today for £20k cash if I wanted. The reason I run an old car is: 1. The punishment it gets using it for work 2. I don't like the thought of huge depreciation. 3. The HMRC reccommended mileage rate of 40ppm at the very least I want to break even. 4. You don't worry so much about leaving an old car parked and clumsy idiots banging it.
Car was bought 5 yr ago cost me £4700. I have done 113000m and worked out, writing off the purchace price it has cost 19 pence per mile to run.
scrappage. The small print - BobbyG
I have sussed it out.
Every dealer I pass now has a 10 year old car pride of place on the their forecourt with a scrapped lump of steel next to it. So thats a possibility of two cars for every dealer in the country....
scrappage. The small print - GeordieGuy
Given the VAT take on these new cars, isn't the cost to the taxpayer negligible anyway - assuming that the said same folk wouldn't have bought these cars anyway.

By the way, I'm going the i10 route for my wife (but keeping my own banger!) as this was the only car which made sense and was available. The notice on HJ for a sub-£5k VW Fox is possibly misleading as VW only have stock of these already laden with extras. Was quoted £5900 for a basic Fox as it had alloys & met paint. You can do a Polo for about the same money - and that has better re-sale and central locking.
Like many, we have run old cars from the nineties as the build-quality for most of that era is generally A1 anyway.
scrappage. The small print - LondonBus
I never thought I would buy a new car. I agree with the comments on depreciation.

Scrappage only makes sense if
a) You're buying a cheap new car (in absolute terms) - like the i10
b) Your old car is virtually worthless. Ours has an MoT but it has a number of problems - such as a clutch that's on the way out, a leaking gearbox, one electric window jammed solid and the other one which has had the regulator come loose (and is rattling around inside the drivers door). It would be relatively easy to fix the door problems (if I was any good at DIY on cars - which I'm not) but the mech problems are more intractable
c) You're paying cash for the replacement vehicles.


I still think scrappage will be a bigger success than people claim it will be. The market for old bangers is going to be quite distorted though.

I don't think I'm the only one who thinks this way - Hyundai have cleared most of their UK stock of i10s - what's happened with other small cheap cars?
scrappage. The small print - Optimist
the only winners initially will be the car makers >>


That's the idea, isn't it? Car makers employ people and pay them. They pay tax and NI and go to the supermarket with their money in hand. And so on.

I agree the trickle down idea is uncertain in the way it will work out but I can see the principle of it.

I can't see that there'll be another episode of sub-prime because loans aren't as readily obtainable now and some are covered by redundancy protection insurance.

On a new, small car I agree that it's a good deal.

Edited by Optimist on 16/05/2009 at 11:38

scrappage. The small print - tintin01
All our local dealers now have an old car on ramp with £2000 plastered over it. As usual, it very much depends on your individual circumstances as to whether the scrappage deal is worth it or not. As an earlier poster said though, cars do seem to have gone up a bit. Not so long ago we were posting about new Mitsubishi Colts at £5.5k.

I can see the scheme appealing to, say, someone who runs an old car as a second car - with savings in the bank earning next to nothing, you could treat yourself to a Chevrolet Matiz's at £4,295.
scrappage. The small print - madf
"But thousands of customers who took up the offer were warned last night that they would not receive their discounted cars as planned in two days.

Most car-makers warned they will not be delivering discounted cars on Monday, with Ford, Vauxhall, Volkswagen, Fiat, Honda and Toyota the worst affected.

Vince Mann, director of the Hendy Group of car dealerships which includes Ford, Honda, Kia and Mazda, said: 'It's a fiasco. A complete Government cock-up.

'They haven't sorted out the paperwork to allow us to release the cars to customers.

'Honda has emailed its dealerships and said we can't issue the cars to our customers until this is sorted out.

'But it's not just Honda affected. All the manufacturers are hit.'

Last night, emergency meetings were taking place between car makers and officials from Lord Mandelson's Department for Business to resolve the problem.

The Government issued guidance on how the scheme will run on Thursday night.

But yesterday car-makers told the Government they were unhappy with some of the key points and had 'serious questions' about VAT. Last night these had still not been resolved.

Would-be car buyer Rodney Nott, 63, a retired teacher from Payhembury near Exeter, had been expecting to take delivery on Monday of a new Honda CR-V.

But last night Hendy Honda in Exeter called him to say that he could not now do so.

Mr Nott said: 'They were very sorry but they said the Government paperwork just wasn't in place so they couldn't release the car as planned.

'I suppose the ministers and MPs are so busy dealing with their expenses they haven't got time to deal with this.'

A spokesman for the Department for Business denied there was a paperwork problem and said the scheme would go ahead on Monday as planned. "

Courtesy Daily Mail. No link due to site policy :-)
scrappage. The small print - robroy
Notwithstanding all the negative feedback on the 'scrappage scheme' I personally think it is marvellous!

I drive a 306 diesel turbo [bought new in 1997] and while I could buy a new Aston Martin[well, quite a few in fact!] I choose not to, preferring to maintain a low profile [to be honest, just incredibly tight!]

However, I am of the opinion that the BMW MINI is a magnificent example of superb engineering[at a reasonable price] but on a point of principal [no discounts] I have declined to invest in one.

That is up to now, and the governments 'scrappage scheme!'

I have ordered a brand spanking new MINI at an incredibly low price [the dealer even offered me a substantial saving in addition to the £2,000 discount!]

It is my intention to keep the MINI for at least another ten years, and await another similar scrappage scheme!

Three cheers for the 'scrappage scheme!'
scrappage. The small print - njsb
robroy, which mini dealer did you use?

I am also thinking about a MINI under scrappage.
scrappage. The small print - Pugugly
Just read in Autocar that the German scheme has contributed to a 19% increase in car sales.....something very wrong in this country I fear.
scrappage. The small print - rtj70
I've been a away so apologies if this has been said already.

I always thought German car buyers might buy German built cars. VW are run of the mill with Audi/BMW/MB being more aspirational. And MB E-Class in very basic trim also being used as taxis in many towns and cities.

So a scheme like this.... they trade in old cars and buy new German cars.

We introduce a similar scheme and we buy German, French, Spanish, Italian, etc. cars. How does this improve sales of UK made cars?

Next car for me if I like it in 2 years might be the latest Toyota Avensis. If it is more interesting than the last one. I'd be a few hundred pounds per year better off if I got one but didn't like it.
scrappage. The small print - daveyjp
"We introduce a similar scheme and we buy German, French, Spanish, Italian, etc. cars. How does this improve sales of UK made cars?"

In two words - "supply chain".

The UK makes lots of components for vehicles. Engines, gearboxes, turbos, suspension components, paints, rubber seals, circlips, nuts, bolts - you name it we do still make it.
scrappage. The small print - robroy
robroy which mini dealer did you use?

Love to assist you, but for various reasons would rather not reveal the dealer's name!

However, after receiving lousy interest from my local dealer, I phoned around a bit and was most surprised to be offered a 'stonking good deal' if I hoofed it over [complete with documentation of car to be scrapped] and completed paperwork [including deposit]

In effect I am soon to be taking delivery of a MINI loaded with exras for a tad over £11,000.

Service from the dealer has been first rate, as just the other day they phoned me up to inform me that BMW had started manufacturing my car at Longbridge[think that's where they are made!]

So, I get the car of my choice[at a bargain price] Government makes circa £1,700 VAT [£700 NETT profit] BMW sell a car as does the dealer albeit for a modest profit thus ensuring that everyone is happy, a rare occurance these days!

scrappage. The small print - Lloydy 25
My car was registered in November '99. Would it become eligible for the scheme in November '09?
scrappage. The small print - merlin
No it would not become eligible. The date before which your car must have been registered is not changing.
scrappage. The small print - henry k
A very good item on BBC Radio 4 program "You and Yours" today .
Available on their website www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/
Item was about 25 mins into the program.

Lots of points raised that many are not aware of :-(
Ford suspends start of car scheme - henry k
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8054679.stm

Includes a three minute video ( More like a promotional clip) that must be a great freebee to a certain brand.

Edited by henry k on 18/05/2009 at 13:31

Ford suspends start of car scheme - Honestjohn
Just a note to thank Peter S who astutely pointed out (in volume 2) that El Gordo "probably" gets back all the money the gov contributes to scrappage in the form of VAT. While generally being positive about the scheme I used this on SKY TV News this lunchtime to show that it is actually costing taxpayers in general nothing. If the final price paid for the car is £7,500, the gov actually gets £1,009 in VAT for its £1,000 contribution.

HJ
Ford suspends start of car scheme - Pugugly
Soooo if its that good a deal for the taxpayer, HMG and the car makers why doesn't it go on ad infinitum ?
Ford suspends start of car scheme - Optimist
Because if HJ's figures are correct HMG is netting £9 on the car sale rather than £1009.

But are his figures correct?

He talks about the "final" price of the car. If that's the price after the scrappage discount then the top line (ignoring first reg fee and VED) is £9500.

Of that figure I reckon £1239 represents VAT @ 15%, so HMG is doing a little better but still not as well as without the £1k contribution.

Or is this a variant of the fullchat discount debate?



Edited by Optimist on 18/05/2009 at 14:48

Ford suspends start of car scheme - Pugugly
Hmmm threadmerge ! :=)
Ford suspends start of car scheme - Pizza man
Of that figure I reckon £1239 represents VAT @ 15% so HMG is doing a
little better but still not as well as without the £1k contribution.


VAT is figured out on the Orginal List price of the car not the price paid.
Ford suspends start of car scheme - Optimist
What? How can that be when hardly any car sells at RRP?

Ford suspends start of car scheme - Pizza man
What? How can that be when hardly any car sells at RRP?

VAT Value Added Tax, basically the cars value is RRP but what you pay is the deal you make, do you think the government would ever let you pay less tax then they can get away with charging you?
Ford suspends start of car scheme - Peter S
No problem HJ. I think we all have a duty to expose the Government's spin when we see or hear it ;-)

Peter
Ford suspends start of car scheme - henry k
Honda have also suspended things to allow time for HMG to get things sorted.
Honda say 900 orders and Ford say 1400 orders pending.
Ford suspends start of car scheme - Focus {P}
Item on BBC South Today earlier about woman who has paid in full for new Fiat but dealer won't let her drive it off the forecourt due to uncertainty about VAT. I think it said this was not the only case.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8056499.stm
Ford suspends start of car scheme - Honestjohn
Yes, there seems to be a dispute with HM Rev and Cuss over who pays the VAT element of the scrappage bonus. The dealers won't. The manufacturers won't. But this is really for cars already in the system and in stock. It should be resolved soon and will be for new orders. Pity no one took the responsibility to think the whole thing through and write a rule book for the scheme. What are we paying Treasury civil servants for? Or is everyone too scared to raise areas that need clarification?

HJ
How many so far? - pickup
Assuming that the rules don't change and 300000 cars is the cut off for the scrappage allowance, is there any way of finding out how many claims have successfully been processed as the scheme progresses?
Ford suspends start of car scheme - captain chaos
Breweries and drinking sprees spring to mind...

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