G,
Sorry to hear about the crunch but if it gets a new car at a time when they're almost giving them away it might work out OK - there were some cheap Tribecas on Motorpoint last time I looked, could be an interesting alternative.
Had a similar situation myself this morning but got away with it. We live up a cobbled cul-de-sac which slopes toward the road at a fair angle - the cobbles themselves have a very pronounced crest type camber.
Decided with the snow to get the bus to work, but after 50 minutes of waiting for it, realised it wasn't going to turn up so went for the car. As I went down the road it started to slide; pressed the brakes and it just went sideways, released that, tried the handbrake and sideways again but worse. As I headed towards a neighbour's A3 I realised all I could do was release all the brakes and hopefully steer down the rest of the hill; this worked and I ended up in the middle of the main road that adjoins our bit, very fortunately though there wasn't anything coming so I got away with it.
Hope the insurance is sorted quickly and you're back properly mobile asap.
Best regards
Lee
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This is the problem with buses, you decide to get to bus instead of risking driving a car in snow, but the road where the depot is was probably causding problems with the buses!.
Either way I am getting the bus to my job this evening, they are every 15 mins though so its not too bad, just not risking as I am an inexperienced driver, if experience drivers such as the OP are crashing it shows how dangerious it can be.
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Is it still snowing in Manchester? My wife is over that way this evening and has my car......I like that car.....
:-(
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Did something similar trying to join the North Circular in London from a side turning a few years ago.
It was down hill, hit the brakes and black ice, slid straight onto said A406, across both lanes of the dual carriageway and came to rest against the central reservation.
There was nothing coming and I managed to get the car pointing in the right direction before anything did.
Scary stuff, that black ice.
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Why are you guys all driving in such dangerous conditions?
Wouldn't it be better to take public transport or a day off work rather than risking yours, and worse still, somebody elses life?
MVP
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Indeed I am getting the bus for my job tonight the problem is public transport can be unreliable when its icy/snowing for the same reason cars are. Most the roads here aren't bad now, its just the hidden black ice which is the killer. It is not snowing here but then it hasn't been all day just icey where sleet has melted.
It will be North Manchester which is more affected as its higher up and hilly, where I live its as flat as Norfolk.
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The below was originally posted on this forum almost exactly two years ago and at that time did not receive too much sympathy. Perhaps BR's have now had some personal experience of ABS and realise that it is not a panacea in difficult conditions.
Sorry for repeting the post, but doing so makes me feel a bit better ........
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As we are approaching the season of snow & ice I would like to share an experience with Back roomers and ask their advice / opinions on the use of Anti-Lock Brakes (ALB) under very difficult conditions.
In January 2006 my wife set off for work at about 07:00 one snowy morning, just as the temperature was starting to rise above freezing point. We live on a hill which varies from 1 in 10 to a steepish 1 in 5 and outside our house it is about 1 in 8. She set off down the hill in her (old shape) Yaris 1.3 equipped with ALB and Brake Force Distribution: she might have well as set off on a sledge.
My wife set off by reversing out of the drive, up the hill, stopped and then gently, at a walking pace, began to roll down hill (in 2nd gear)
The car was uncontrollable, she could neither stop nor steer. She tobogganed down the hill, over a (deserted) crossroad, into a cul-de-sac, knocked down 4 metal bollards and came to rest after hitting a substantial fence head-on. Maximum speed was under 10 mph and injury, apart from to pride and self-confidence was nil.
Throughout this experience, which I observed from our driveway the ALB functioned correctly and made a noise like a demented machine-gun / hammer drill, but was totally unable to stop the car. The car also was unsteerable, slaloming across the road from side to side. What did stop the car were the aforementioned bollards, not the brakes.
I have previously personally experienced something like the above when driving a Toyota RAV on smooth snow, pushing the brake pedal so hard that the seat-back bent and producing only a very slight braking effect with non-existent steering. Fortunately I did eventually stop without hitting anything. The speed at the start of this escapade was less than 15 mph.
My conclusions are that ALB is less than useful under extreme snow conditions and is actually potentially dangerous as it seems to prevent a wedge of snow / ice building up in front of the wheels. In days gone by, I drove Land Rovers under ?difficult? icy conditions and found that pumping the brakes rapidly seemed quite effective. The ability to actually lock the wheels seemed helpful, but with ALB the wheels do not lock.
Anyone who has seen a demonstration of ALB allowing the car to brake and steer and thinks that this will really work under all conditions is living in a fool?s paradise.
Sorry to have gone on a bit, but two questions:
1) Have other BR?s experienced the above?
2) What should (could) my wife have done (I suggested using the handbrake)?
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Thanks for the concern guys. For those of you local to me in North Manchester (Leef!), I discovered that a friend did the identical thing to me this morning, half an hour before me. He lives within 100 yards of my house and also has a steep drive down to Bury Old Road. Doh!
Humph, at present, Manchester is not too cold and is possibly trying to rain rather than snow, but whether it will thaw overnight I don't know. I have now put grit down the drive.
I have also had a good look at my car. Its not as bad as I thought. Wing undamaged. headlamp unit very slightly scratched, bonnet slightly bent at the front and bumper semi-wripped off and torn. Looking inside the crash bars (or whatever they are called) look unmoved and I suspect the pumper cover took most of the side swipe impact. So hopefully the repairer the car is going to (insurer approved - ha!) cannot mess it up too much.
Must admit to feeling both elated and disappointed. There is always the nice thought about buying something new (even if I am very happy with the Outback as you know), but when I thought about it, I had no idea what I wanted, so am glad that I expect to see the old girl back in my drive.
A quick trawl on autotrader today putting in my specific requirements, came up with a 2.0 Focus Titanium with auto, SatNav etc etc. Mind you it was almost £15,000. I wonder what they would do for cash now.
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The good thing about slow speed ice crashes is that the momentum of the car is easily altered. What I mean is that your sliding car easily diverts its self (because its slippy) when it hits something else, so you tend to end up with "scrapy" type damage rather than severely bent assemblies.
Of course if you career off the road at 50mph that theory goes out the window.
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Gareth - ouch, sorry to hear it.
Get it up to Robinson's for some TLC, that other lot in our neck of the woods aren't much cop.
The roads were shocking this morning. For once I was glad I was doing the early start for the London train so at least there wasn't much about.
The kids have had a whale of a time today as school was shut so they have had the day sledging.
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...Of course if you career off the road at 50mph that theory goes out the window...
As indeed, do you, if you're not wearing a seatbelt. :)
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Espada - sorry about your bump. It's not a nice thing to happen, and I'd be totally gutted if it had happened to me.
By curious co-incidence, I had my first real experience of "ABS is useless on snow" today - brake pulsating under my foot as I slid merrily on. I was lucky, though, and no harm done.
Academic question for the experts - would winter tyres have helped Espada at all in this situation?
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I wonder if the offroading trick of using reverse gear and feeding in the clutch to work as the brake when crawling down a slippery hill would have helped?
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when i was taught to drive a van by the Old Bill there was snow everywhere, (Christmas 1984 or 1985) which with an empty 1980's Transit was 'interesting'.
One bit of road, well slippery, not gritted, with cars going everywhere.... i bottled out driving down a hill. The instructor laughed and said, just go down the kerb, get one tyre up against it, the friction will stop you from running away. Worked pefectly...
(i know that's not possible everywhere, but i'd imagine the principle could work against verges etc as well).
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J500ANT -
No - its automatic.
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Academic question for the experts - would winter tyres have helped Espada at all in this situation?
Since the experts have not ventured any opinions, I'm going to hazard a guess of an answer to my own question . . .
Winter tyres provide better grip in snow, so they are less likely to lose grip and to lock. Hence winter tyres might have made a difference in this case - but it might not have been enough of a difference.
Interestingly enough, when Autobild tested winter tyres in October 2007, they found that braking distances in snow were less than half that of summer tyres.
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In parts of mainland Europe (e.g. Germany) it is a legal requirement to fit winter tyres between certain dates and motorists normally have a spare set of wheels + tyres.
So, to answer the question 'would winter tyres have helped'? I think the answer is a: 'Yes'.
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>>Winter tyres
Of course. Fantastic things. Having taken an Imprezza to the Alps, 4WD & winter tyres, it stuck to the road like glue. Never needed to use chains.
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