'Comfortable' seats are not necessarily best for back-pain. Also, there are other factors in a car other than the seat that may be causing you the pain.
A common problem is getting in and out of the car - if the car is the wrong size this will result in putting strain on the lower back when getting in and out, especially if the car is too small or too low. For example, many people drive a car where the cockpit is too small for either their height, their leg-length or their girth. Sometimes the seats are physically too small or too low for them. Similarly, the gap of the door itself might be too small in height and or width so you are effectively squeezing yourself in and out.
(UK narrow side by sie parking only makes this worse by not allowing enough room to fully open doors when getting in and out of the car. I always try to park somewhere where I can fully open my car door.)
Most people get in and out of their cars in pain each day but have got so used to it that they no longer consciously put 2 and 2 together and have learnt to 'live with the strain' on their lower back. Next time you get in and out of your car actually think through what is going on in that physical process and become 'aware' of your body - you may well be surprised to realise that you are indeed straining your back.
(Even people who do not think they have any problems, if they consciously think about what is going on in their bodies when they get in and out of their cars, might suddenly begin to feel a strain or even pain in their lower back, in between their shoulder-blades or in their knee, hip or ankle joints. If you wish to try this then do so repeatedly for a week or so as it might take some time to 'become aware'.)
Secondly, you should not have a seat in your car which results, when you get in or get out, your hip bone / joint going lower than your knee joint. *** This is SO IMPORTANT *** If you do then you are going to cause yourself back strain, potential back pain and also potential diaphragm / breathing problems over the long-term. This is vitally important and hence why MPVs and 4x4s do actually have a health benefit for people as you can 'slide' in and out of the seat without causing yourself any back or knee pain.
Another important aspect is that people sit so badly in their car seats, partly as a result of the above and partly because of bad posture, that the seats can have long-term damage on their breathing patterns - effectively stopping people from healthy diaphgram breathing and changing their breathing to very unhealthy and potentially serious upper chest breathing. Believe it or not but a bad seat, be it in your car or at your office, can cause this and with some people spending several hours a day in their car their car seat is vitally important. I cannot emphasis enough how damaging to your life upper chest breathing can become and it is something that builds up over time.
Sadly, all of the above are not the kind of things that you will ever read about in a car review but they should be mentioned as they are vital to long-term health.
We spend so much time in our cars, just as we do in our beds, that it is equally important to get a good and correctly sized and positioned car seat as it is to get a good bed. Sadly, you will rarely read a car review that mentions the car seats let alone go into any detail about them. Car reviewers, I have to say, are very poor on this very important issue. I actually think that there should be a campaign akin to the seat-belt and airbag campaigns to get good, quality seats into all new cars.
I believe that the Vehicle & Road Safety Centre at Loughborough University has done some very good research on car seats but I could find the info on their site otherwise I would have posted a link here.
Oh, one more thing that you can try whilst safely driving. Next time you are out and about consider where your ears are in relation to your neck/chest. If you ears are 'foward' of your neck/chest then you are effectively straining or stooped forward which is terrible posture and will most likely mean that your breathing is upper chest and is pretty poor and strained. Oh, and of course will also probably mean that you have some kind of back and/or neck strain going on if you are sat like that everytime you get in your car. Oh, and you may also have regular headaches that you can't figure out where they come from.
I could go on but you are all probably very bored by now :-)
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And Tawse proves the need for a thanks button on this forum!
The seats in the Golf SE are described as comfortable, but in reality they're like squashy armchair seats that I would imagine would not be fun after a while.
The sports seats in my golf are really comfortable, but then, I like firm seats.
Sounds like you need a day out and some (long) test drives!
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And Tawse proves the need for a thanks button on this forum!
Shucks, you're making me blush... Unless you meant "Thank goodness he finally shut up!" :-)
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Very good stuff Tawse. I shall try to incorporate some of your advice into my seating position in the Signum. It's creasing me as opposed to the Mondeo which seems to suit my creaky back better. Did over 500 miles in the Siggy the other day and got out like an old man.
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Very good stuff Tawse. I shall try to incorporate some of your advice into my seating position in the Signum. It's creasing me as opposed to the Mondeo which seems to suit my creaky back better. Did over 500 miles in the Siggy the other day and got out like an old man.
Try Yoga - very good for your back, neck and shoulder muscles. Heck, if you can find one, consider the Nintendo Wii Fit which has very good yoga exercises and is also a lot of fun.
Also consider your magnesium intake. Google 'magnesium' and 'Carolyn Dean' as a lack of it can cause all sorts of problems. 100 years ago magnesium was probably the most abundant mineral in our diet, and had been since we first crawled around the African plains, but now most people in the West have hardly any magnesium in their diets and it ain't good. One side affect of too little magnesium is muscle aches and cramps.
If you do have serious bad ache then consider finding a 'good' accupuncturist. I have known people who have wasted years of their lives in pain going down the NHS route without any cure only to find that a 'good' accupuncturist has been Heaven sent for them. Of course, it is best to treat the cause rather than the symptom hence why I am ranting on about things such as posture, breathing and stuff like magnesium.
The other bad thing about car seats is having the actual 'seat' of the seat either too long or too short. Too long and it can cause too much support so that you do not sit in a correct and relaxed way. Too short - the Toyota Verso is guilty of this IMPO - and you have very little thigh support unless you are a very short person. Probably fine in Japan but hopeless for Northern Europeans.
Also wear comfy but supportive shoes when driving - especially if you are on a long journey. Those shoes you wear for the office aren't good for driving long distances in so have a good pair of trainers for driving. I use a good pair of Nikes which have good arch support, give me more feel when driving and are incredibly comfortable. I can often be seen getting out of my car in my business suit with my white Nikes on - I get odd looks but I am comfortable. What I am saying is that even the wrong footwear when driving can do everything from tire you through to worse complaints. Keep the stilletoes for the privacy of the bedroom!
Breathing is a biggie when driving - a bad seat creates bad posture and can make it impossible to breathe from the diaphragm. This can turn you into a chest breather and can cause you to suffer from hyperventilation syndrome - this is little understood by many in the medical profession but those who do will tell you that it can cause all sorts of health problems from headaches to asthma like symptoms to panic attacks to chest pains. All because of the wrong seat.
Next time you are out and about have a look at the people around you to see who are breathing from the chest and who are breathing from the 'stomach'. I suspect most will be upper chest breathers and if you watch them they will be breathing in a swallow quick way which looks uncomfortable. Then, if you have a young child or a baby, watch them when they sleep - they will breathe from their diapghrams because that is natural and it is something that most of us revert to when we sleep unless we suffer from hyperventilation syndrome.
At the end of the day we are basically the same creatures we were 10,000 years ago... Heck, half a million years ago... and our physical and emotional aspects are designed to be running around the African plains chasing deer and running away from lion and other things that wish to eat us. We are still hunter-gathers but hunter-gathers sat behind desks working on PCs or sat in cars.
Bad car seats have a lot to answer for.
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"Heck, if you can find one, consider the Nintendo Wii Fit which has very good yoga exercises and is also a lot of fun."
I met someone with back pain a few months back (they had dislocated something). Cause was hola hooping on a Nintendo Wii Fit! I joke not. It apparently not uncommon for people to injure themselves playing on the Wii.
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"Heck if you can find one consider the Nintendo Wii Fit which has very good yoga exercises and is also a lot of fun." I met someone with back pain a few months back (they had dislocated something). Cause was hola hooping on a Nintendo Wii Fit! I joke not. It apparently not uncommon for people to injure themselves playing on the Wii.
Believe it or not but I am actually a hula-hooper (Yes, I am a man).
I have a weighted 'sports hoop' as they are superb for aerobic activity and flexibility. They get your breathing up, they get your heart pumping and there was a very good reason why all those ladies in the 1950s had such slim waists just at the time when hooping was the craze. It is currently undergoing a huge revival and I would recommend a hula hoop for anyone who wants to get trim and fit - assuming their Doc gives the OK.
I also have a Wii Fit and the hooping on that is fun if done, IMPO, in moderation but the way you hoop on a Wii Fit is actually not the same way as which you would use a real hula hoop and I do have my doubts about the stress that it might places on your knees and back if done too energetically - which the scoring system does, IMPO, encourages you to do so.
Having said that, I think yoga on the Wii Fit is superb as are the balance games.
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Very intertesting Tawse. Good of you to take the time to pass that knowledge on. As I mentioned earlier, my nippy back is as a result of an injury but it must be being exacerbated by minor seating position differences. I shall think hard about whether I can change that for the better.
As an aside, is there plenty of of magnesium in fags, black coffee or gin by any chance.....
;-0
Edit - for what it's worth, I swim a lot and rarely have problems for a day or two after a decent spell in the pool. If I miss a couple of days I kind of lock up.
Edited by Humph Backbridge on 14/11/2008 at 22:04
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Very intertesting Tawse. Good of you to take the time to pass that knowledge on. As I mentioned earlier my nippy back is as a result of an injury but it must be being exacerbated by minor seating position differences. I shall think hard about whether I can change that for the better.
I knew a chap who had back pain, went back and forth to the Docs, was on pain killers, eventually they decided a dangerous op was the only solution. He was on the waiting list for ages and in such pain he sought out an accupuncturist. After 6 weeks of treatment his pain was gone and when the NHS op was eventually scheduled he declined it as he felt so good. He now has about 2 courses of 6 week treatment with the needles each year now.
As an aside is there plenty of of magnesium in fags black coffee or gin by any chance.....
Cigarettes and coffee are known 'stressors' which actually deplete the body of magnesium. As is, as I sip my Jack Daniels, alcohol.
;-0 Edit - for what it's worth I swim a lot and rarely have problems for a day or two after a decent spell in the pool. If I miss a couple of days I kind of lock up.
The swimming would have gently stretched you back, your muscles and the spine, and also swimming is known to greatly help correct bad breathing and bad posture so you were doing yourself a load of good there.
Have you ever gone to see an osteopath - those people are the people to go and see when you have skeletal or muscular problems as they have way more knowledge than GPs on the subject.
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Tawse, this has been the most interesting thread I have read in a long. long time. (Forgive my curiosity, but is your screen name anything to do with a well known "teaching" method popular in Scotland not so long ago?)
It strikes me that a lot of road rage may be attributed to drivers with extremely uncomfortable postures. I get dangerously close to road rage after too long at the wheel of my (2008 model)Focus - those infernal deah restraints: does anyone know where I can get replacement ones which are actually comfortable? I have never had such excruciating back and neck pain than with this car...
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The most important point is not to confuse soft seats with comfort - that's why firm seats such as in Mercedes, Saab, Volvo and similar marques prove not only comfortable, but mean you can drive further for longer without normally suffering tiredness or pain.
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Tawse this has been the most interesting thread I have read in a long. long time. (Forgive my curiosity but is your screen name anything to do with a well known "teaching" method popular in Scotland not so long ago?)
No, more to do with the numerous girlfriends I have had who have had a desire to dress up and act as naughty adult schoolgirls ;-) Well, OK, yes.
It strikes me that a lot of road rage may be attributed to drivers with extremely uncomfortable postures. I get dangerously close to road rage after too long at the wheel of my (2008 model)Focus - those infernal deah restraints: does anyone know where I can get replacement ones which are actually comfortable? I have never had such excruciating back and neck pain than with this car...
If you walk around with your shoulders raised or 'lifted' you will chest breathe, hence why people under stress are told to drop their shoulders, which will make you tense, aggitated, angry and can eventually result in a panic attack.
This is because when we chest breathe we do much quicker and swallow breaths than when we breath naturally via the diaphragm. This means we take into my oxygen and give out too much CO2, eventually depleting the body of CO2, which alters the blood gases and makes people feel aggitated at first, light-headed then hyped-up, angry, because adrenalin is then pumped around the body, and eventually a full scale panic attack.
Yep, you can get all that from bad posture and bad posture you get from everyday life, the chairs you sit in, the desks you sit at, the PC screens you leer at.
I am 6 foot 2 inches tall and found it impossible to sit comfortably or healthily in a Ford Focus. There is so much wrong with the cockpit IMPO but then most cars in its class - Golf, Asta, Corolla/Auris, C4, etc - are equally as poor.
A really good tip when going to buy any car is to take someone along with you of the same height and build, walk around to the passenger side of the car, look in and watch your friend get into the driver's seat and assume a driving position. You will often be surprised how uncomfortable your friend will look - that is often the car you were considering buying.
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Interesting stuff Tawse, thankyou.
Strangely enough, the seats in our hilux are the most comfortable coupled with the general driving position that i've ever had, it wasn't expected but was a pleasant surprise.
We didn't go for the leather as we disliked the one and only colour of grey intending to have our own choice of colour aftermarket, but the velourish seats are so comfy and warm they will stay.
There's no height adjustment but it doesn't seem to be needed, as swmbo 5'3" unless in those higher than life heels she lives in (i'm not complaining) is as comfy and can see and drive as easily as i am at a shade over 6'.
I spend my life getting in and out of cars of all sizes, and Tawse is so right about this access thing, getting down low and simultaneously limboing under the far too shallow windscreen and then having to clamber out of the things again must cause some sort of strains over the years.
How nice to jump in and out of berlingo's and the like, that bit higher and with easy access and plenty of height and the screen pillar where it should be.
Maybe it isn't just the seats but the overall space and access that makes for the comfortable car.
I notice many of the newer designs have very high bodies with much narrower windows, maybe such cars mean that you have to sit higher than you would in an older design with larger windows (Volvo's?) in order to see out which then puts you up almost touching the roof.
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