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My vote will be for the Skoda Superd, had a test drive in a 2.0 tdi recently its a hell of a lot of car little money.
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I would probably go for the Fiesta but will have to bag a drive first. Certainly looks to be a cracking little car with the promise of usual excellent driving dynamics.Like the looks as well but hated the gimcrack dash.
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I saw my first new Superb today - a very stylish and large car, if its anything like the Roomie, I'd have one.
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I saw my first new Superb today - very stylish
>>if its anything like the Roomie I'd have one.
Well its not then is it so you cant have one
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Let's have a punt at the order and see how close I get.
1 Golf - nearest to the 'car for all reasons'
2 Fiesta - they say the best small car to drive
3 Superb - big car room and performance, medium car costs
4 Insignia - good but what does it do that the Mondeo doesn't?
5 Megane - no specisal reason to buy one over a Golf or Focus
6 Mito - is it really all that special?
7 C5 - isn't this just a reskin?
Edited by Avant on 07/11/2008 at 00:06
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1 Alfa Romeo Mito - Best off-roader? ;-)
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I'd go for the Mito. I bagged a test drive when I was in Italy in September. Its a fantastic little car, the interior is great. Solidly built and handles well. The one I took was a top of the range 1.4 Turbo with 155BHP and certainly shifted. The "DNA" set up actaully made a noticeable difference aswell (Dynamic, Normal and All weather settings for the steering, throttle map). Felt extremely well built aswell, a notch up again from the GFs Bravo, itself very well screwed together.
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With the exception of the MiTo, what a boring list of cars!
Depressing.
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The MiTo because it is a Fiat group car and historically they seem to do quite well with average cars (Panda excepted) - if the 147 can win it the MiTo CanTo. If the jury awards extra points for green cred then the Fiesta or Golf with the Econetic and Bluemotion models in the range.
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I imagine the Fiesta will win. That's because Ford have made significant improvements to the new model. In terms of quality, dynamics, price and economy it has to be the right car for these difficult times. It may also be one of the first super minis that is refined enough to be taken on a long run.
The VW Golf will run it close. But I just feel that Golf Mark 6 isn't that huge a step over Golf Mark 5. It's also pricey.
I believe Alfa's MiTo, as good as it may be, is too specialised (possibly too sporty ?) a car to win this year's COTY.
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I don't think it is too specialised. Its basically a 3 door hatch. Has a new 1.6 multijet diesel and 1.3 multijet diesel options aswell.
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1st- An Italian car
2nd- A French car
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I think there is something to be said about this as apparently the French and Italian judges are notoriously partisan. I liked the MiTo when I saw it at the London Motorshow but it got fairly lacklustre reviews in the press that I saw. I guess that I will have to try one and make up my own mind.The Golf doesn't seem like a huge step from the last model.
If I was a judge I would be asking which car represents the biggest step forward and which car would I be happy to buy with my own money.
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"If I was a judge I would be asking which car represents the biggest step forward and which car would I be happy to buy with my own money."
Good point - I'm not sure whether they judge a car purely for what it is in comparison with the others, or whether it represents a step forward over its predecessor. I can see a problem with the second approach - the Mito for example hasn't got an exact predecessor.
If they do go for that approach, then the Fiesta and probably the Superb may come before the Golf. If it's the first approach, I'd stick with the Golf: the Fiesta according to road tests so far is great to drive but poorly packaged. Maybe the forthcoming B-Max will supply that need.
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".....as apparently the French and Italian judges are notoriously partisan." Something like the Eurovision Song Contest then?
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I can't remember enough of them to make any suggestions but this has just got me musing. I wonder how many ex cars of the year have turned out in reality to be true greats and how many were, well, not?
Any nominations for the best and worst award winning cars of bygone years?
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Well the Talbot Horizon for one....oh well perhaps not.
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To my eternal shame, we had a Horizon - one of the first, new in 1978, badged a Chrysler. It succeeded a Maxi and seemed a better family car than the VW Golf that with hindsight we should have had.
It wasn't that bad a car, and it was much better equipped than another Maxi which would have cost more: the main problem was ferociously heavy steering.
I think it won COTY because the top-of-the range version, only available in France when we got ours, had one of the first trip computers (known as 'ordinateur de bord') to be fitted in a mass-market car. Since it was basically a reskinned Simca 1100 with a 1.3 engine, it was hardly a worthy winner.
I think its bigger sibling the Alpine won COTY as well - I'll check the table that PU has jist supplied.
Edit - yes, there it is - 1976, another reskinned and not very distinguished Simca.
Edited by Avant on 08/11/2008 at 23:47
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The Alpine - an underrated car, the wheels were dead skinny in it to my 18 year old eyes it looked like Bambi - shame nicely styled, British built. A school chum had one - he became a Pharmacist, must make contact with him..
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They both had that extraordinary Simca engine which after about 50,000 miles produced a tappety noise which made a VW PD diesel seem like a Bentley in comparison.
It wasn't even one of motoring's memorable noises (Daimler preselector gearbox, 1950's Commer lorry, early Mini in first, Morris Minor 1000 on the overrun) as it was so unpleasant.
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See I'd forgotten about that and the memories come flooding back ! I must get in touch with that guy - wonder what he drives now, he was a bit of a mimser when he was 18 !
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The Megane does not deserve to win in my opinion. It's a far better quality product than its replacement but it doesn't actually move the game on, merely closes the gap. A car magazine test recently still put the Golf ahead for quality and ride comfort.
Huge improvement (like new Laguna) but nothing new for the class IMO.
The three-door Coupe looks interesting though.
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Yes I too remember the awful clatter of the Alpine, Horizon and Solara engines. I was only knee high to a grasshopper at the time but had an ear for engine noises. I can only have been about three at the time but I still remember the distinctive sound of the Saab 99 (P reg) of our neighbours. I still think that slant four sounds unique today. I remember that even Astras and Escorts sounded half decent in the early 80s but I am digressing here.
Edited by Mattbod on 09/11/2008 at 17:09
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What a boring list.
The Fiesta should be banned as it is a reskinned Mazda2.
The Superb may be that but it is irrelevant
The Golf is a reskinned Mk5
The Megane is less exciting that its predecessor
The MiTo may just be that little bit different
Is there nothing that truly takes the car game away from the standard. The Megane Scenic moved the stakes (and others have followed) but since then, there has been little new and nothing that is truly excellent
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What a boring list.
>>
What a stupid, pointless, boring and possibly corrupt competition.
Why corrupt? Possibly much of the voting is politically motivated.
Why pointless? Let's say I am looking for a large estate - the ECOTY winner is say, the FIAT 500 - so what! I really don't see the point of the ECOTY.
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It's easy to criticise the Chrysler Alpine and Horizon now, but in their day they were actually one of the better cars on the market and arguably better than the home-grown competition. Remember in those days fwd hatchbacks were the latest must-have thing. Given that, who would chose a dreary old Morris Marina or Cortina/Escort saloon?
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They were grey porridge Boxster. No motoring spirit at all. Now the Lotus Talbot was a different matter !
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Is there nothing that truly takes the car game away from the standard.
Seems not :( As you rightly point out, the shortlist is a bunch of cars which offer only incremental improvements, if any, over the alternatives.
The COTY competition would be much better if it wasn't restricted to newly-launched vehicles. For years, the original Ford Focus remained a better vehicle than its newer competitors, but the newly-launched rule meant that the Peugeot 307 won in 2002 despite being inferior in many ways.
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Just resurrecting this thread as I'd thought I was way out of line having read others' posts. However Andrew English in the Telegraph is only one different from me.....
Me (as above):
1 Golf - nearest to the 'car for all reasons'
2 Fiesta - they say the best small car to drive
3 Superb - big car room and performance, medium car costs
4 Insignia - good but what does it do that the Mondeo doesn't?
5 Megane - no specisal reason to buy one over a Golf or Focus
6 Mito - is it really all that special?
7 C5 - isn't this just a reskin?
Andrew:
1 Golf
2 Fiesta
3 Superb
4 Insignia
5 C5
6 Megane
7 Mito
Let's see what happens tomorrow.
The Golf VI has won a What Car test against 118d, A3 and Civic - pity they didn't include a Focus. The Civic is rightly put last in part due to the appalling rear visibility: I think it's dangerous and wouldn't have one as a gift.
VW have at last got the message and are selling the 2.0 TDI in SE trim; with the Mark V you can have the estate as an SE, as I have, but not the hatch.
Edited by Avant on 16/11/2008 at 23:36
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Insignia by one point from Fiesta
Didn't see many predictions of that result
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Nope, I thought it would be the Fiesta. Maybe the Insignia has been better recieved in other countries.
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I had a good nose around the new Megane at the MPH show at the NEC on Saturday. One word; boring. You'd lose it in a car park.
This is from someone who had a current shape Megane, and has a current Megane based MPV, and rather likes Renaults. Or rather, did like Renaults.
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I thought the Fiesta would win (but I wanted the FIAT 500 to win again). But reviewers seem to like the Insignia. But whereas the previous Vectra was smaller than the Mondeo MkIII they now have a car longer than the new MkIV Mondeo! So last one could have been a little bigger and now this one in my opinion is probably too big...
I decided against the Mondeo a year ago because it's width/length not best in car parks - anyone who uses the NCP on Market Street in Manchester (near Ramada) with all the concrete pillars will perhaps understand.
Edited by rtj70 on 18/11/2008 at 00:01
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Oh yes - I know it well. Almost drive head first into one the pillars years ago when the lighting was poor and signage non-existant. I am amazed at the size of cars they get down there and the lack of scrapes on the walls!
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Just a guess, but I'd plump for the Vauxhall Insignia - just pipping the Ford.
Edited by woodbines on 17/11/2008 at 12:54
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"Just a guess, but I'd plump for the Vauxhall Insignia - just pipping the Ford."
Good guess but they already announced the winner as the Insignia ;-)
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Don't know if this has already been posted but is this a bit of a turn up ?
{Merged with existing thread on European Car of the Year}
Edited by rtj70 on 17/11/2008 at 21:56
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Vauxhall/Opel Insignia wins 2009 Car of the Year
Insignia takes a surprise win by just one point from Ford's Fiesta
Andrew English
Last Updated: 5:16PM GMT 17 Nov 2008
Vauxhall insignia tower bridge
The Insignia starred in a pre-British Motor Show stunt above Tower Bridge in July
Vauxhall's new Insignia family car has been voted 2009 European Car of the Year by a one-point margin from Ford's Fiesta. The Vauxhall/Opel scored 321 points against the Fiesta's 320, both far in front of the third-placed car, Volkswagen's Golf which scored 223 points.
The Insignia, which is available as a hatchback, a saloon and an estate, received its international debut at London's Motor Show this July flying high on a crane jib near Tower Bridge. It was an auspicious portent.
"Car of the Year has often been decided narrowly," commented Ray Hutton, president of the 59-strong jury of senior motoring journalists drawn from 23 European countries. "Just two years ago the Vauxhall/Opel Corsa lost to the Ford S-Max by two points. This time the positions were reversed, with just one point separating Insignia and Fiesta. And underscoring the closeness of the competition, the Insignia received most votes from 20 members of the Jury while the Fiesta was placed first by 19."
Points allotted to the other Coty finalists were VW Golf 223, Citroën C5 198, Alfa Romeo MiTo 148, Skoda Superb 144 and Renault Mègane 121. The competition's first stage was in October, when jurors chose seven finalists from a field of 37 contenders. To be eligible for Coty, a car must be launched within the past 12 months and must be available in at least five European countries.
Telegraph motoring correspondent and Coty juror, Andrew English, comments:
"This will be a welcome fillip for the General Motors-owned Vauxhall and Opel which are facing tough trading conditions, with GM facing near financial meltdown in the US. It is also one in the eye for those who have suggested that General Motors should be allowed to die because it no longer produces competitive products compared to the Japanese, Germans and Koreans. That is simply not true. Insignia is a more-than-worthy 2009 Car of the Year and it has taken on and beaten off Far Eastern and German cars to take this title.
"The significance for General Motors is that the Insignia is based on a new chassis floorpan, which will underpin cars produced all around the globe. Buicks in China, Chevrolets in Korea, Saturns in North America and Vauxhalls in the UK will use the chassis and the fact that Insignia is such a first-rate product bodes well for all of us."
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Sorry didn't see previous post.
Just thought that VW had it in the bag with readings about the new Golf.
H
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Thank goodness, at last I will be able to sleep at night now!
Phew, that was exciting wasn't it? The Vauxhall Thingummy won it - well I never did!
Do you know, I think I might just go out and buy one of those - I wouldn't have done otherwise of course, but that European Car of the Year competition has alerted me to the true potential of Vauxhall car ownership.
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It is interesting to see how the different countries voted and look for patterns.
Where a country supplied two or more judges, and particularly for countries that supplied three or more, one can begin to look for national characteristics arising. I did some calculations, and the following are my discoveries. (The following figures, by the way, ignore the countries that only supplied one ECOTY judge.)
Vauxhall Insignia: Loved by the Spanish - the average Spanish judge gave it 7.3 - Also enthusiastic were the Dutch (6.7), the French (6.3) and the Austrians (7.5, but only 2 judges).
The least enthusiastic were the Russians (3.0) (only 2 judges), the Italians (3.3) and the British (3.7)
Ford Fiesta: Loved by the British (8.0) while the Italians (6.8) and the Swedes (6.3) were also enthusiastic.
The least impressed were the Spanish (3.5), the Germans (3.7). Poles, Russians and Austrians weren?t that keen either.
VW Golf: The Germans (surprise) were the most enthusiastic, and gave it 6.2 and the Italians gave it 6.0.
The Swedes couldn?t see the point, and gave it no points at all, and the Spanish only gave it 2.2. The Dutch, Russians, Poles, and Belgians weren?t very enthusiastic either.
Citroen C5: The Dutch (5.7) and Belgians (5.5) liked it, as did the Germans (4.5) In fact the Germans gave it better marks than the French (3.7). Maybe the ad was right!
The least enthusiastic were the British, who gave it 1.2 and the Italians who gave it 1.7.
Alfa Romeo Mito: The Swedes were way out of line and gave it 7.3. The Italians and the Spanish at 3.2 were about as enthusiastic as anyone else.
Most negative were the French, who gave it 1.0.
Skoda Superb: The Russians (just two judges) gave it 6.0. The British were the most enthusiastic of the major nations at 4.3.
The Germans couldn?t see the point and gave it 0.5. The Italians (1.3) and the Spanish (1.5) were also pretty unimpressed.
Renault Megane: The best score was from . . . wait for it . . . the French - at 3.3.
The worst scores were from the Swedes (0.0) and the British (0.7).
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well that's put the jinx on it's chances of success!
JH
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tinyurl.com/59ncpy
Great that Vauxhall/Opel beat Ford....... Swiftly ducks head and waits for abuse!
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 19/11/2008 at 18:40
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The Fiesta should have won. It's more in tune with the tough economic times. A small(ish), comfortable, well-built, economical and great-to-drive car. Shame that it doesn't have the Jazz's rear seat flexibility.
Anyway, TBH I think the whole COTY thing is a joke and I certainly wouldn't buy a car because it had won.
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