|
Ah..but certain senior Met Officers wouldn't be able to make a scene then would they ;)
|
Krispy Kreme outlets maddated by law to be located within waddling distance of stations with a 90% discount scheme for police but not PCSOs.
|
|
|
Ah..but certain senior Met Officers wouldn't be able to make a scene then would they ;)
With that comment, you have proved why it is necessary for them to make a scene!
|
|
And it shows just how little you know of the subject....
Edited by Pugugly on 08/10/2008 at 18:28
|
And it shows just how little you know of the subject....
There you go again.
Prejudiced, Judge, Jury, Executioner. No wonder the Police are getting the bad name they are.
Edited by jbif on 08/10/2008 at 18:33
|
Hello, Pot calling kettle..
|
I know, I know.
I wasn't even going to reply to this or the seatbelt thread, but 've been off today and it seemed a better option than weeding the garden. :)
|
|
Strewth. I had high hopes that this thread would turn out to be a good 'un, and now we've got all this really *childish* stuff instead.
|
|
|
How about a ban on political correctness?
What, you mean stop trying to ensure that women, ethnic minorities, and LGBT people actually get a chance to progress their careers on merit rather than being squeezed out like Alison Halford?
Sounds great. Maybe, while we're at it, we could also go back to having lots of freemasons in the police and to having black people routinely stopped and searched, while hate crimes are ignored?
|
Perfect PC statement NowWheels. I was hoping you would fall in to the usual feminazi trap of saying 'women and other minorities' so that I could point out women are actually a majority in our society but you sidestepped that.
Also you must be careful with LGBT some object and insist on GLBT.
Meanwhile the streets of London descend in to chaos and wimmin dare not go out after dark, how liberating.
|
|
|
|
a ban on politicians meddling in the law they no knowledge of .Their craving of spin and endless reams of statistics .No more Police officers chained to endless piles of needless paperwork instead of being on the street where they want to be. No more Soft court sentences and criminals where they belong in jail instead of government accountants telling the public community service works . No 50 % remission for good behaviour in jail , no playstations or tv in jail .I could go on !!!!!!!!!
|
a ban on politicians meddling in the law they no knowledge of
Who'd write the law then ? A number of politicians are either lawyers and above anyway !
|
Legislation is a serious matter though PU... the habit seems to have grown up of doing it more and more, and more and more hastily. Surely this isn't an illusion?
No bad thing for lawyers of course, all that bushy undergrowth full of rubble, old prams and broken bottles. No civilian can get through there without a bit of help.
:o}
|
|
You're right of course Lud - the language laziness and general slobishness has crept in legislation. Serious and Organized Crime Act 2006 contains a sentence around Police powers of arrest which goes along the lines of a "suspect likely to disappear" which puts me mind of Paul Daniels or someone more than a carefully framed and worded and important piece of law.
|
I saw the other day that Boris Johnson wants the Met to represent the community it polices be reflecting its diversity in its officers.
How can that be achieved? What's the point? Why can't the diversity of the Met be reflected in associations which represent all its officers rather than just ethnic minorities?
I think the whole PC nonsense has been a disaster for the police and, as someone pointed out, for every public sector organisation. IMO we've now got people ready to take offence and cry "foul" as soon as something they don't like happens.
I'm not denying that unacceptable things do happen but sometimes people don't get promoted because they're not up to it.
|
I saw the other day that Boris Johnson wants the Met to represent the community it polices be reflecting its diversity in its officers. How can that be achieved?
My trying to identify and remove barriers to recruitment of under-represented groups, as required by law and supported by all the major political parties.
What's the point?
Simple: a police force composed overwhelmingly of white men will overwhelmingly carry the attitudes and priorities of white men. If you look at how reluctant women are to report rape, or how little trust ethnic minority groups have in the police, that poses a huge problem in effective policing.
Why can't the diversity of the Met be reflected in associations which represent all its officers rather than just ethnic minorities?
Because ethic minorities have for years had a raw deal in the police, and the Met in particular has had a history of institutional racism, as identified in the Macpherson report after the bungled investigation into the death of Stephen Lawrence. The Police Federation and other bodies did not succeed in tackling these problems effectively, which is why the Black Police Association was formed to do something about the under-recruitment of black officers and the police forces' inability to retain them.
|
|
The fact that a huge number of Black and ethnic minority Officers want nothing to do with the BPA would tell you something about the organisation.
|
|
Who'd write the law then ? A number of politicians are either lawyers and above anyway !
In an idle moment a few years ago, I did some checking. The parliament elected in 1997 appeared to be the first in many years where the Lawyers Party was not the largest in the House of Commons. Labour had own so many seats that the number of Labour MPs exceeded the number of Lawyer MPs.
I suspect that in the current parliament, with much fewer Labour seats than in 97, the Lawyers have regained pole positon.
|
|
|
|
|
Sounds a good start. It probably co-incides with the thinking of many of the population at large.
|
|
I toyed with it once - when I was bored with my line of work. My cousin actually sits in the Lords, not that she's important, or a Labour party "helper" or a Lady (note the capital letter !) but as a barrister (wearing a funny powdered wig) - She has a very good job and proper grasp of the English Language.
|
|
|
Political Correctness would be high on my list... it is a scourge and has almost totally ruined the police force....because, those persons in life who are weak or not quite up to it or don't easily fit in... and also have some form of 'ism' they can relate to.. blame that instead of seriously looking at themselves. It does an enormous disservice to their colleagues who equally could relate to some form of differing background..but who just get on with it, often admirably so. I find it ironic that something designed to empower and help people who may have been disadvantaged, has now been hijacked by those that need a kick in the rear, management wise, but no one now dares do so.
then there's the CPS (Crown Prosecution Service), for whatever reasons there are some tremendously under performing or under achieving people within that outfit, (along with, no doubt, some who work very hard)
followed by too much Govt interference in sentencing policy. Leave it to the Judges...please. Current sentencing guidelines have been lowered so much it's farcical.
too many civilian posts...it's all well and good civilianising posts to save money, but then employing more people in that role/unit defeats the object and more often than not creates bureaucracy...to the point the tail starts wagging the dog instead of the dog wagging the tail
traffic policing priorities...we've all got old war stories re the pedantic traffic cop... but nowadays there are less and less of them...and you can tell by the free-for-all on the roads. There needs to be an urgent 'U' turn on that one
lastly...'targets'. What a hopeless failure they have been. That I think is the single worst thing that has happenened in many decades and forced common sense off the agenda.
|
Agreed Westpig - thank you for bringing it back to motoring as well.
Some people are confused about the difference between Political Correctness and the Realpolitik of having a workforce that reflects the population it Polices.
I'm making an assumption here but I don't think that this is what the OP had in mind when he posted though. Back to motoring related Policing matters please !
|
|
Sorry, wrong place, thought this was a motoring site for petrolheads, mechanics and generally affable car nuts. Shan't trouble anyone here again!!
|
|
Actually, I want petrol powered cars back at work!!!!! Howzat??
|
>>I'm making an assumption here but I don't think that this is what the OP had in mind when he posted though. <<
Well no, I genuinely wondered to myself, watching the Motorway Cops prog and coupling that with a comment on another thread about cops not agreeing with some laws themselves, what ones they may wish were changed.
Few of us outside the force spend everyday implementing the law, so its a unique perspective and I think a valuable one.
|
Pugugly said>> Some people are confused about the difference between Political Correctness and the Realpolitik of having a workforce that reflects the population it Polices.>>
Maybe but the idea is just a PC notion. There are parts of London populated largely by Hasidic Jews.....but how many do you see in the police? Some minority groups just aren't that interested.
To try and preserve my post I'd endorse what one of the serving officers had to say about targets. If you institute targets you influence people's behaviour so that if your line management are looking for numbers rather than good policing, why not give them the numbers and have an easy life?
Maybe the copper in the insurance thread needed to show he was doing something.
If I don't understand how targets work in the police, especially in regard to motoring, happy to be corrected.
|
SNIP
Motoring - Motoring - Motoring or the whole thread gets binned.
DD.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 08/10/2008 at 20:05
|
Ouch!
I suppose the juicy cache of pavement-parked cars in Rathbone Place did play a fairly subsidiary role, but ouch all the same.
:o}
|
Less paperwork, perhaps?
On the spot fines and not needing to fill out reames of paper when they get back to the station... which means they can spend more time out on our roads (motoring reference) and pavements policing...
??
|
Westpig
Thanks for that helpful and thoughtful post.
traffic policing priorities...we've all got old war stories re the pedantic traffic cop... but nowadays there are less and less of them...and you can tell by the free-for-all on the roads. There needs to be an urgent 'U' turn on that one
Could you expand on that, please?
|
I agree about Westpig's post, a good one Wp.
tyro, you may not have met any traffic plod while out driving, but they used to be there.
They could spend a long time giving you a detailed lecture about stuff you knew, and they knew you knew. If you had been bad enough, or showed excessive impatience while being scolded, you might get a ticket too, or worse.
While admitting that or something like it, Westpig thinks there should be more of them than there are, and that this would have a beneficial effect on driving in general. He could well be right.
|
Could you expand on that please?
I'll try, without 'going off on one' contrary to a motoring discussion.
In the past, there was a 'model' which had an ideal percentage of traffic based police officers in relation to police numbers in general. It was agreed by ACPO (Association of Chief Police Officers) and was designed to ensure the important role of traffic policing was properly resourced. So for example a particular County Force might need to ensure it had 8% of its' police officers as traffic officers...(my percentage, can't remember the exact figures).
The reason why traffic officers are counted and resourced differently is that there are unique elements to their role, which would be inefficient to try to teach the average omni-competent police officer e.g. fast road training, HGV legislation, accident investigation, etc...and...their equipment needs to be different e.g. high powered patrol car.
Since the Home Office and Govt have sought to increase their more direct influence over policing and introduced specific targets, backed by performance related pay for the most senior managers...then some of the stuff that does not fit into these targets... and that includes traffic policing, has become the poor relation.
This means they have become under resourced, their numbers have dropped dramatically and we are noticing the difference on our roads.
To put some balance to this, you could argue that having our elected officials have more say in policing, rather than leave it to a Chief Constable is a good thing. IMO it is dreadful.. and an enormously backward step, having various different initiatives that all of a sudden are a priority, to the detriment of other things, some of them that ought to be most important. I don't think the elected officials realise that by making something a priority, something else important drops off the bottom or at the very least has a lower priority than is prudent, because something has to give.
If you don't believe me, write in under the Freedom of Information Act and ask for your local Force area's response to 999 calls and then compare them to 5 years ago or 10 years ago.
Back to traffic stuff. It is my belief that the incredible drop in traffic officer numbers (again you can write in and ask how many are employed in that field compared to a date in the past...you'll be surpised) has had a direct link in the increased lawlessness on the roads....and has culminated in the false dawn of the speed camera, because of their revenue benefits.
|
Westpig - again, thanks for that. I suspect that since I have been living in a remote part of the Highlands for the past 10 years, I may not be as aware of the decline in the standard of driving in Britain as others are.
BTW, IMO, the most profound sentence in that post is
>>I don't think the elected officials realise that by making something a priority, something else important drops off the bottom or at the very least has a lower priority than is prudent, because something has to give.
That does not just apply to elected officials. It is something that a lot of people forget.
|
there are less and less of them...and you can tell by the free-for-all on the roads. There needs to be an urgent 'U' turn on that one
There certainly does seem to be a free for all on the roads, and I am sure that coppers in cars pulling someone over and giving them a lecture, or worse, can help.
|
|
There may be a change in priorities in my area. In the past seeing a traffic car was very rare, I live near a hospital and the occaisional ambulance escort would be about it. Recently I have seen several "high profile" stops in busy areas, (ANPR?) also they were set up outside a shopping shed car park with a half full car transporter with the cars having "no insurance" stickers. The DVLA car tax van was there as well. Good to see them out and about but I wonder what priority has slipped.
Edited by Old Navy on 09/10/2008 at 12:48
|
|
|
|
What you mean stop trying to ensure that women ethnic minorities and LGBT people actually get a chance to progress their careers on merit ...
I have no doubt that there was (and sometimes is) racism/sexism/etc in society. But I feel things in some respects have gone too far. I speak as someone who went to a job interview, with a UK firm, and I was interviewed by an Indian who told me "the English are not good enough to be employed", and who made it clear I would not get the job. I also worked with some Indians who often told me "Indians are much better than the English". Had I expressed such views in regard to Indians in public ... I hate to think what would have happened. Life is never simple.
Incidentally, there were 'real' Indians, not Anglo-Indians, who came here as adults to work.
I digress.
|
|
|
|
|
