Modern diesels capable of travelling faster that it would be legal or safe in nearly all traffic circumstances, having the perfect mid range surge for real life driving....and around 50mpg.
So what would be the purpose of a petrol engine then?
(Could I borrow a Parp Parp?)
David W
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Those of us old enough to remember black & white telly and wireless sets with valves learnt to drive in cars with low revving long stroke engines and were taught to change up as soon as possible through every gear. Try this in a modern car with a (small) high revving engine and you will make slow progress. To accelerate quickly with more than 1 passenger on board you have to thrash the poor thing through every gear. Give me a diesel every time for a much more relaxed and quieter drive and long distances covered between fill ups. Unless, maybe, you prefer contributing to G.Brown's overflowing coffers.
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"Unless, maybe, you prefer contributing to G.Brown's overflowing coffers."
That's the bit that really cheers me up. I'm depriving Grabbing Gordon of £8 or £10 a week by going diesel.
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"what was the point of diesels other than running costs".
Presumably as you are now in UK the running cost bit now has to include extra BIK tax for the petrol, despite the 3% surcharge?
Not sure about the changing gear more often if its driven properly.
Noise, got to agree.
Accleration slower, Fenmeister covered that one more than adequately.
Horrible things? Seeing as crude oil is refined into both petrol and diesel and you have to have both really pleased there are plenty petrol drivers out there still willing to throw money Gordy's way.
Whats my excuse. Been a long time since a petrol vs diesel thread.
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You're all doing it again. I keep saying "OTHER than running costs". Other than tax, other than fuel costs etc. etc.
I really do not care about the running costs.
Given that, I see no value or advantage in a diesel.
And as for David's comment about being able to exceed the speed limit or safe speed, then so can a Ford Anglia, and they never made those in diesel.
They are noisy, smelly, slower, the floor around a disel pump is a mess and gets on your shoes, it is irritating to wait before you can start it.
Horrible things.
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But Mark you keep coming up with comments which are your opinions, as is your right, but some of these are factually incorrect.
Smelly?
Petrol of course does not smell then, isn't that "petrol smell" actually carcinogenic benzene?
As for the exhaust smell, since ULSD I think not. Plus what about the H2S smell from petrol cat converters?
But then smell is a very subjective thing.
Slower?
Nope. Compare the real life figs, not just 0-60.
Floor around disel (sic) pump messy?
Must use the wrong filling stations then.
Irritating to wait before you start it?
Come on, since DI there is no wait except in temps lower than around zero, and then its only a few seconds. Switch on, put your belt on, light out, start. No lost time.
And why can't we all do it again?
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Of course they are just my opinions, thats why I was interested in the thoughts of others.
But it does seem to me like it is smelly. Maybe it smells no stronger, merely different. But I find it noticable.
I wouldn't even know the 0-60 of any car, never mind comparing them. However, it seems to me that around town diesels are slower and more cumbersome. When they are at high speed on a motorway, they do seem flexible, but so is a petrol engine.
In the end, for me, nobody has come up with any reason why I would consider having a diesel which would outweigh my feeling of disatisfaction or discomfort with them.
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"They are noisy, smelly, slower, it is irritating to wait before you can start it."
Keep up with the plot - NONE of those applies to a VW PD engine.
AND having sigificantly more torque, they have a punchier mid-range, which in turn means more relaxing to drive.
As for BMW and Merc diesels - all I can suggest is that you try one. Scary!
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I am lucky enough to drive a 530d and it is great. But you cannot deny that filling up can mmake you stink (hence the plastic gloves).
What I would love to have is BMWs new hydrogen powered car - V8, 184bhp, 135mph, 0 emissions, 0 fuel tax. Problem is nowhere to fill up and the car not being on the market (yet).
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>0 emissions
Er, not exactly. Hydrogen made from natural gas by reforming produces about 10kg of C02 per kg of hydrogen. Hydrogen made by electrolysis also produces CO2 at the generating station (unless the electricity is made from an entirely 'green' source such as wind, wave, water or solar power). The same is true of electric cars that use power off the grid - no cleaner in total than petrol or diesel cars really (just reduce local emissions). And if you think LPG in cars is dangerous - it has got nothing on hydrogen! You cannot see hydrogen burning, and the friction as the gas leaks through a hole is enough to make it ignite. Nice.
Richard
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>>Keep up with the plot - NONE of those applies to a VW PD engine.
Trevor, I don't own and, to my knowledge, have never driven a VW PD engine. I don`t even know what one is.
And what does "keep up with the plot" mean in this context ?
>As for BMW and Merc diesels - all I can suggest is that you try one. Scary!
I now own an Mercedes E300td and a Xantia Diesel of some description (DW?). I have ordered a Mercedes E220td. I have driven thousands of miles in a BMW 525td as a company car. I even had a Frontera Turbodiesel. Equally I have had a BMW 540i, Mercedes E320, Xantia petrol and a Blazer.
So, tried and not very scary. Why do they scare you ? Maybe if you were in more control they wouldn't scare you as much ? An advanced driving course would help you with this control.
You buy want you want to buy, drive what you want to drive, and I will do the same.
You should try to find other people's differing opinions less threatening which will enable/help you to avoid the feelings of defensiveness.
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OK, so diesels might not have trye shredding pace off line, but above 30 mph in 3rd, it will race all the way to over the legal limit faster than any equivalent petrol powered car. Then stick it in top, and don't change gear all day. Nice. Oh, and get 50 mpg. Even nicer. I just can't wipe the smug grin off my face every time I charge down the MWay slip road and see all the bemused looks on the faces of 1.8 Mondeo reps when they just can't keep up (and my diesel is very definitely 'Old tech')!
I did have the misfortune to drive a 'screamer' - Almera 1.4 - a while back - it was awful - wouldn't go unless you got it over 5000 rpm - which meant changing down on Mway inclines - and by then it was more noisy then my old BX TD. Petrol heads always seem to say they're more expensive to buy, so you lose the benefit - yes, but they're worth more used - check out the difference in price between a 1.8 petrol Xantia and a Turbo D.
But, no doubt, the best bit is depriving Mr Brown of his tax at the pumps. Oh, and not worrying about getting blown up in an accident, and all that expensive petrol disappearing into the atmosphere on a hot day.
No, I can't see a reason for a petrol really......
At the end of the day, more of the energy contained in a molecule of diesel when it is converted into water and CO2 in an engine comes out as useful work, than does so out of a molecule of petrol OR LPG, so if we want to prolong the earth's resources, then we should all drive diesel - and Mr Brown should drop the tax to persuade us. Ha! Some chance I fear.....
Of course, this message is either falling on deaf ears (the petrol heads) or the converted (the diesel heads) so it was a waste of my time really. Oh well, feels good....
Richard "Is that LHM or Diesel in my veins?" W
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It's horses for courses, I suppose.
Some people prefer revvy engines; personally I find them annoying, but then I wouldn't describe myself as a "thrill-seeker" - just a boring [30-year-]old fart who prefers a comfortable and relaxing drive to work and back.
I only had a 1.25 Fiesta as a hire car, and found it felt pretty quick from a standing start up to about 30, but at higher speeds it was nothing special - if you spend a lot of time pootling around town in stop-starty traffic it's nice enough, but I find that sort of engine tiresome on longer journeys.
If I only drove for about 10 minutes at a time, I suppose I'd enjoy a redline thrash on sports suspension and unforgiving low-profie tyres, and I probably wouldn't care about fuel consumption either, but because I tend to be in the car for about 2-3 hours a day, I have other priorities.
I'm much more interested in comfort and in low-stress motoring, and on the mileage I do, I save about £600 a year in fuel by running a diesel instead of a comparable (slightly smaller) petrol.
[ I *do* care about running costs - just don't talk to me about air-conditioning :( ]
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You don`t need to thrash about hi-revving something like an E340 petrol. It is extremely relaxing driving, if you choose it to be so.
Of course, it doesn't smell, doesn't smoke, and doesn't sound like a diesel. But I could live with that.
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