Tales of repairs on old motors - doctorchris
I have been prompted to post on the basis of a fascinating description given by John S on how to repair the bracket that holds the engine top stay on an old style Mini, posted in technical.
His post was a form of literature that will soon be lost forever. He described a lengthy and complex repair involving relatively cheap parts that these days would not be done, the car would probably just be scrapped.
These thought come to me just now as I'm reading the biography of the late Fred Dibnah who preserved Victorian engineering for future generations. Who will preserve the motoring history of cars from the 50's onwards in the same way, if not us.
My own favourite memory is how the gearbox could be removed from inside the car on Triumph Heralds and Spitfires, allowing gearbox and clutch repairs. I recall one such repair on my Herald where the gearbox failure had been precipitated by the failure of a 4p circlip.
Once the box was out, with relative ease, it could be dismantled with no specialist tools. OK, the job took a few hours but was easy, fun and filled a boring Sunday for me.
Today, what would have happened? Recon box, scrap the car?

Edited by Pugugly on 25/05/2008 at 19:21

Tales of repairs on old motors - bathtub tom
>>the gearbox could bey removed from inside the car on Triumph Heralds and Spitfires

And Vitesses, mine had white vinyl upholstery - well it did before!
Tales of repairs on old motors - gordonbennet
Me and my old mate Dougy, haven't seen him in years, had a novel way of working underneath our cars, for welding, clutch replacements and the like.

We'd open the side windows, and put a strong rope over the roof and tied around the door frames and B pillar, then attach said rope to a decent car, and pull the vehicle over on its side usually onto some old tyres, but keeping the pulling vehicle and towrope attached for health and safety reasons. (wonder what H & S would have made of that)

It worked a treat as well, made life much safer than working under precariously propped up cars.

We slipped a mk2 cortinaGT engine and gearbox into his mk1 1200 cortina, the gearstick came out further back up the transmission tunnel, no probs we chiselled a new opening for it.

It was him and i who became renowned for curing the head gasket blowing problems of the 2 litre v4 ford engine, we found if we slipped a 3 foot scaffold bar over the torque wrench and pulled on it together, the head gasket never went again.

Miss those days.

Tales of repairs on old motors - John S
gordonbennet - Done the GT conversion too! Not sure it was the gear lever that needed the hole - the remote on the GT was bolted onto the box via the original hole. On a Mk1 though, the remote fouled the handbrake, and that needed moving back, using a 105E Anglia cable I recall.
JS
Tales of repairs on old motors - gordonbennet
John, we definately had to knock a hole for the gearlever, i just can't recall there being a handbrake issue, but as the car was Dougy's he wouldn't have been worried about a handbrake anyway.

Whenever we'd been out and he'd blown several other motors off, we'd end up at one of several pubs, often people who we'd passed would ask him what was under the bonnet, he'd always reply 1200 cross flow, only the more wise would notice how far back the gearstick was.

He had a herald at one time too, that had more engines fitted than you could shake a stick at, one of which being a standard 8, rather more leisurely progress as i recall.

I was more into zodiacs and ventora's in those days, and banger racing.
And a sledge hammer was the only tool required for that sport.

Happy days.
Tales of repairs on old motors - John S
gb

That's odd, because I did exactly the job you describe on '65 Mk1 Cortina, and the remote gear lever extension didn't need any work. That was the easy bit! Yes, I left the 1200 badges on mine too (not a cross-flow BTW - they came in with the Mk2). Give aways on mine were the 51/2 inch Lotus wheels and lower suspension, plus the larger exhaust it you were observant. As you say, fun off the lights, especially with the original 4.125 diff! Eventually changed it for a 3.77 Lotus unit to give my ears, and the engine, a break. Happy days? You're not kidding!

JS
Tales of repairs on old motors - gordonbennet
Ah John i think we may have it.

Dougy's mk1 was an old one poss 62/63, and as you say a 1200 non cross flow, gearstick came out at the front of the transmission tunnel, wonder if the later one had a remote? Did the early one have an umbrella handbrake, i just can't remember.

The engine we replaced it with was a 1600gt cross flow from a mk2 of some 67or 69 vintage, IIRC.

You must have been a wealthy chap, we hadn't got the lolly for wheels and exhausts etc. Banger racing, even though still the cheapest form of racing and good fun to boot, still cost enough, towing all over the place.

Another one we did for his bro in law, we slipped a 2 litre into his 1600 mk1 capri, but left the original diff in, top gear acceleration would see many modern cars left for dead. And then we slipped a 3 litre V6 into a transit, that was a thirsty beast after, had to put the diesel front on the van to accomodate the longer motor.

Fords were brilliant in those days for the interchangeability of bits and pieces.

Edited by gordonbennet on 26/05/2008 at 13:51

Tales of repairs on old motors - John S
gb

Ah, yes, pre-aeroflow Cortinas up to '64 could be had with a column change, bench seat and an umbrella handbrake. IIRC only GT and Lotus versions had the remote. I put in a 1500GT motor, not a later cross flow, so there could have been gearbox differences. Wealthy? No. Just finished my apprentiship. Lot of the parts came from a modified Corsair a neighbour wrecked.

JS

Edited by John S on 26/05/2008 at 18:15

Tales of repairs on old motors - DP
I think the clue is in your post when you mention "specialist tools". Cars nowadays seem deliberately designed to obstruct and deter DIY, or even non-dealer attention. Routine service tasks, such as cambelt replacements, or even brake pad replacement often require the use of tools which do not appear in a standard toolkit. You can see it in its most obvious guise by simply peering under the bonnet of a modern car. You will invariably be greeted by a swathe of plastic shrouding with a strong "no user serviceable parts inside" theme to the labelling. This is nothing other than deliberate on the part of the manufacturers.

In addition, in the event of failure of many parts on modern cars, it is increasingly found that the parts concerned are sealed for life, and are deliberately designed to be nigh on impossible to repair or recondition. One is expected to bin it and replace it. This philosophy is being designed in nowadays, whereas in the old days it wouldn't even have been thought of.

Not only does this push up ownership costs, but it's also a tragedy from an environmental viewpoint. Whatever the component you are dealing with, it is far more ecologically acceptable to repair rather than replace, not to mention a lot cheaper.

Cheers
DP
Tales of repairs on old motors - Lud
I've assembled an engine with bored block, polished crankshaft, new bearings and new pistons, valves, camshaft and followers on a dark and slippery concrete garage floor dc, but never in my life have I dared dismantle a gearbox beyond the input shaft... chapeau!

(But surely you must have needed a rawhide-faced mallet at least?)

Edited by Lud on 25/05/2008 at 22:14

Tales of repairs on old motors - doctorchris
Lud, Herald, Spitfire, etc boxes hardly needed "dismantling". You just undid the right bolts and, really, they fell apart. Not to say that they were weak, just simplicity of design itself.
Tales of repairs on old motors - Lud
None of that awful pre-torquing and so on... still, there are lots of baulk rings and things that have to go in the right way round...

I didn't know that about Herald gearboxes, although Heralds were said to be easy and fun to work on. Unparallelled access of course. No need to upend the car like gb and his buddy...

Heralds drove quite amusingly too if you enjoyed a bit of sideways or at least tail-wagging.

Edited by Lud on 25/05/2008 at 22:22

Tales of repairs on old motors - doctorchris
Great fun, single transverse rear leaf spring and negative camber on rear wheels. All a bit weird when matched with double front wishbones and discs on front. Would probably be completely banned these days.
Tales of repairs on old motors - martint123
I replaced second gear in my (already rotten in the late 60s) MGB over a weekend, at my fathers employers warehouse, using their big crane to get the engine/gearbox out.

Amazingly, the gear(s) were available off the shelf in the local BMC dealers.
Tales of repairs on old motors - Lud
Jack Brabham put his name to a Herald conversion with a nice Coventry Climax small screamer installed instead of the standard engine and uprated brakes. I'm pretty sure they did something about the rear suspension too, strapping the halves down at least so it couldn't get up on tiptoe and attempt a full pirouette... They would have needed to.

Edited by Lud on 25/05/2008 at 23:03

Tales of repairs on old motors - doctorchris
My mate across the road, 2 Minors, one as old as me, wants to set up a business where we provide nice looking classics for weddings etc.
We're a good team cos we're both good spannermen, he can spray and weld and I can do electrics that he can't cope with.
Any hope of getting this off the ground?
Tales of repairs on old motors - Number_Cruncher
In terms of gearbox simplicity, the front wheel drive Vauxhalls really were excellent.

All you needed to do was to remove the remote housing from the top of the gearbox, and undo the end cover, and gearbox endplate. Along with the endplate, the two gearbox shafts and selectors then just slid out in one piece - simplicity itself.

As it was the bearings in the endplate which tended to go, it was then a case of drifting out the roll pins in the selcetors, and taking the circlips out of the bearing retainers, and then, you had the two shafts in your hands, ready for the bearings to be pulled off, and new ones to be pressed on.



Tales of repairs on old motors - ifithelps
I have vague memories of watching someone rebuilding a Cortina box and the process involved lengths of twine looped around the shafts.

Can anyone tell me if that could be right?
Tales of repairs on old motors - bathtub tom
I remember undersealing a bubble car in the sixties by rolling it onto its side onto an old mattress.

I also recall repairing a stripped thread on a Honda CD175 cam chain tensioner (I think belts are so much better despite HJ's opinions). It took ages to dismantle the thing, but it just fell back together. Proof that they're designed to be assembled.
Tales of repairs on old motors - none
Many years ago a mate of mine had a V4 engined Consul. The engine blew and he asked me to repair it using second hand bits where possible.
I cobbled one together using a mix of Consul, Corsair and Transit engine parts. Come the time to start it (and he's hanging about watching) tips a gallon of oil in - no dipstick and nowhere to put one ! As luck would have it I'd used a block with no dipstick hole and a timing cover with no hole, if I'd done it the other way round, he'd have had two dipsticks.
Anyway it fired up ok and after a test drive he's impatient to get away, says not to worry about the dipstick, he'll change the oil every month and refill with the correct amount, or top up when the oil light flashes. I saw him a week later and he said "engine runs fine, and it doesn't use a drop of oil".
He sold it 6 months later and the new owner never contacted him to ask about the dipstick.
Tales of repairs on old motors - DP
In terms of gearbox simplicity the front wheel drive Vauxhalls really were excellent.


Plus that lovely, elegant clutch housing design that let you pull the input shaft back, and drop the clutch out of an access cover without disturbing the transmission. This is one of my favourite pieces of engineering / design on any car that I've come across.

Cheers
DP
Tales of repairs on old motors - theterranaut
One dark night in 1994...

me= completely handless. My experience of cars came from driving them, not fixing them. At the time, I'm driving a Mini Clubman, reg circa 1981. Thoroughly fed up with topping up the coolant every day, which was by now pouring from a failing water pump.

Luckily, my local motor factors had both the correct water pump and a Haynes manual in stock; I had sufficient tools to hand, and was just annoyed enough by the leak to want to get on with things.

Its November, and by the time I kick the job off, its maybe midday. Bad weather, natch, just to make things even worse.

I get started. The chap in the shop recommended a shortcut; taking off the offside wheel tackling the job from there after raising the engine slightly with a jack and axle stand, and so I go with that. The rain is cold, hissing it down, and my hands look like corned beef and feel slightly numb.

The job goes surprisingly well. I've wrapped the open pages of the manual in a couple if sheets of clear plastic, but even so, the rain is trying to make its way through. I hit a snag- as the afternoon progresses, it gets darker, and the handlamp I have keeps blowing bulbs with the rain, but I persevere.

Round about dinner time, the pump is on, belts in, and its time to reassemble. Its the reversal of disassembly, Haynes helpfully tells me, and so I do just that. An hour or so later and its done, the wheel is on, coolant is in, and I take it for a test drive.

Its warm in the cabin, but why is it overheating? 9 or so at night now, and I'm really cheesed off, sodden with rain and chilled with cold, and I really dont need this hassle now.

I apply a process of elimination- the thermostat was behaving itself (I think) prior to starting off, so it cant be that....under the car again with the handlamp for inspection. And- I've fitted the cooling fan on backwards, so heated air is not being drawn away from the car. Simple enough to fix- but at this time of night? In this weather? I've really no choice, as I need the beast to get to work the following day, so back I go again into a partial disassembly.
This time I'm used to the work, and things go much more smoothly. The fan is off an on again in what seems like no time. Test-drive time...no leaks, cabin is warm, temp gauge looks fine. Chuffed!

Bed time.

Gary
Tales of repairs on old motors - oilrag
I can remember taking the head off my mini when I was 17yrs. To save time and minimum time off the road I had already stripped off another one from a car in the scrapyard, ground new valves in, springs and port polishing and so on as we did in those days.

Problem was we had an intruder issue. The old man due to his business often ended up with large amounts of cash at home and due to living in a big house on the hill, it was obvious.

His cars could not be expelled from the garage for the same reason and working on the head inside the house was out of the question.

That left the shed, but that had been taken over by our (house defence) Alsation, ( free to roam the house and garden) who one day had just forced entry by chewing through the planks at the side.... At that he had been given the place and a sort of raised platform at the back made for him to lie on.

Now you could visit in there. Even lie on the platform with him,(which he encouraged) but looking at the cylinder head, him looking back from the inside, stopping breathing, turning his head to one side thinking.. made me think twice about trying to work on the `bench` ...

Hence all that luxury and space and the head had to be worked on outside, lapping the valves in piercingly cold weather...

You wouldn`t challenge the dog for his retreat from the house, especially after seeing him chew a plank out of the entrance one day to enlarge it, as though it were cardboard.

That`s how I lost my first `workshop` and bike `garage`, to an opportunistic semi-wolf who had noticed the space after selling the motorbike for a first car.

Regards




Edited by oilrag on 26/05/2008 at 16:27

Tales of repairs on old motors - gordonbennet
That`s how I lost my first `workshop` and bike `garage` to an opportunistic semi-wolf who
had noticed the space after selling the motorbike for a first car.


I know GSD's are a clever animal, and totally loyal, but that was some dog to be buying and selling motorbikes and cars from a commandeered hideout..-:)

I used to take my GSD with me in the truck some years ago, when she became ill, i would pick her up, curled up, and place her on the passenger seat, and she'd be as happy as a pup with two tails.

I wonder how many of the aches and pains we've all got can be attrributed to our lunatic working in all weathers on our cars in those days.
Tales of repairs on old motors - doctorchris
As a weird aside, my mate bought a Mini in the late 70's. As a result of my experiences fixing these tiny beasts with my big hands, I declared myself "anti Mini".
His sense of humour converted this to Antimony, and forever after he called me Bismuth, the next element down in the periodic table.
Never fixed his car for him after that!
Tales of repairs on old motors - bintang
Once rescued a pre-war Austin 7 engine from a dump and got it running for installation in a boat. Surprisingly easy. Decided to keep the gearbox as it was: there wouldn't have been much stopping power astern but I got posted before the launch.
Tales of repairs on old motors - Pugugly
I have a friend - an MSc - who is gathers trollies at Sainsbury - When I see him and ask him "What do you know" he'll reply "the atomic weight of lithium" - strangely appropriate for him; his claim to fame is that he once dined with Douglas Adams before Hitch Hickers - I often wonder whether he was the inspiration for Marvin.
Tales of repairs on old motors - gordonbennet
Bintang, your memory of rescue of an engine has reminded me.

I drove a bulk grain artic in the 70' and early 80's, and often the farmer would have a sucker/blower powered by a tractor pto to drive said contraption. The tractor engines seldom gave enough power to these things, and even with a 4 inch pipe it could take 2 hours to load 20 or 25 tons of wheat, with the constant blockages.

One farm i often went to near Daventry had cannibalised a ERF truck , and had kept the 14 litre 250hp cummins and david brown gearbox in the chassis, but made the chassis into a trailer to power his 6 inch sucker/blower, the sheer awesome power of that thing could blast any blockage out, and could load the same weight in 20 minutes.

Love a bit of overkill, and good to see quality equipment going to good use long after it would have been weighed in.
Tales of repairs on old motors - doctorchris
Sadly, Elf and safety have killed off this kind of engineering enterprise that was a supreme example of recycling.
Maybe one day, when the politicians realise that we need to produce food efficiently in this country, they will relax the rules or starve (actually, in a way, I would prefer the latter but 60,000,000 people would be left to starve before them).
Tales of repairs on old motors - Lud
Apocalyptic talk dc...

Elf'n'safety in its jobsworth guise can usually be sent off with a flea in its ear provided employment law is not involved. I doubt if it gave the late great Fred Dibnah (hats off please) much trouble. I can't remember what a farmer friend said he had done to a local authority wonk of that sort whom he spotted sneaking about among his buildings, but it wasn't at all nice, and he got away with it.

Edited by Lud on 26/05/2008 at 19:22

Tales of repairs on old motors - Lud
I agree on reflection that great harm has been done by the deliberate, ostensibly health-related elimination of small, (relatively!) friendly local breakers' yards and the outfit like the one in Sussex that I used to pass that sold things like Unimogs, Bren gun carriers and once, memorably, with a price tag of £10,000 (or perhaps £20,000, a large round sum anyway) a wood-fired saddle-tank narrow-gauge steam loco, goodness how I wanted it, but the thought of the cost and labour of laying the track, as well as the problem of persuading my wife's family to have the thing in their woodland made me see sense... Just as well I didn't have the money though.