Do they have any legal basis for imposing the fines? I know that the railway companies have dispensation to issue parking tickets but apart form that its councils and traffic wardens / police that can do this, not private companies.
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The UK is an absolute disgrace when it comes to driver's rest facilities. Doesn't matter if you're in a car or lorry, the MSA's are horrendously expensive, frequently dirty and poorly spaced on some motorways.
Away from the motorways it can sometimes be even worse. The A14 for example is very poorly served by service areas, and those that do exist are not well signposted.
The excuse for sky-high prices used to be that they're open 24/7, but then again so are Tesco these days.
FWIW truck drivers have to pay anything between £15 and £20 per night to simply park on MSA's with no guarantee of security or even the most basic of facilities. Frequently there is only one shower available for up to 50 drivers, assuming it's not broken; if that happened in a jail there'd be uproar.
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The prices have gone up in the last few weeks harleyman and some are now £25.
As you say, there is no guarantee of safety or even hot water for a wash though.
Pat
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I knew I'd read it somewhere......DT won't allow us to edit those particular posts !
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If MSAs were boycotted completely for just one weekend it might make their operators think a little and maybe start to offer something resembling service. The excellent guide to "just-off-the-motorway" places to eat should be extended to "stop and have forty winks without getting arrested" places. Over time, of course, there will be no such places left as stopping on any land will, sooner or later, become illegal and transgressors will be hounded and treated like terrorism suspects as a matter of routine. Next stop - metered parking bays and traffic wardens at Service Areas??
The damage is already done - MSAs were worhtless pieces of scrubland alongside motorways which the government of the day simply auctioned off to the highest bidder and these places have operated on the basis of profit (=greed) and pandering to shareholders right from day one. The idea of service simply isn't there. On a (not cheap) fuelling stop at a certain Hampshire MSA, I remember being laughed out of the shop when I asked for a squeegee on a pole, a brush, even a bucket of water - SOMETHING to clean my insect-encrusted screen with.
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Wonder how long it will take Tesco to open a motorway service station wholly owned by them?
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I never use MSA's - too expensive, noisy and busy.
I know this is not realistic for all classes of working drivers, but as a pleasure motorist this is how I get my rest breaks in on longer trips and more often than not, I too find the odd HGV, coach, van driver or sales rep in the same car park!!!
I prefere to go off route (as in Sat Nav points of interest) find a friendly pub/cafe and eat realistically priced home cooked style food.
Food that has not sat in a food cabinet for a goodness knows time period and sit in a comfortable, quiet, clean and unhurried environment.
Either that or again going off route, planning the journey, taking my own drink & food and just getting to a quiet location for a rest.
Unless you are doing huge distances (as in HGV or rep/sales etc., driving) what more do you need?
Edited by Webmaster on 06/03/2008 at 21:15
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To answer the original question regarding "why only 2 hours free parking", MSAs are regulated by the Government and the licensed operator has some "obligations to provide certain universal free services" -
"The Department of Transport impose certain conditions on the operation of MSAs in order to secure basic services for all motorway users at all times. These conditions are that MSAs must provide:-
services for all motorway users 24 hours a day every day of the year;
at least hot drinks and cold food at all times;
leaded and unleaded petrol and diesel;
free lavatories with public access;
free parking for two hours (after which charges may be made) in quantities specified by the Department of Transport;
a picnic area of at least half an acre;
showers and shaver points for lorry drivers;
public telephones;
a tourist information point if required by the Regional Tourist Board;
a police post if required by the local constabulary;
all facilities to be made available and accessible to disabled people (eg. dedicated parking spaces to be reserved near amenities);
and they must not:-
allow the sale or consumption of alcohol;
allow rear access to the site to be used other than by MSA staff, delivery vehicles, and the emergency services;
be used for purposes unconnected with the use of the motorway. The MSA must not become a destination in its own right, generating extra traffic on the motorway. Its purpose is to serve the incidental needs of people in the course of a motorway journey. "
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"a picnic area of at least half an acre"
Where are these? Unless the car-park/truck park counts. Certainly no picnic area (or at least what I would term a picnic area) at most MSAs - or have I just missed them for the last 40 years. I can think of a few picnic tables on grass at Strensham but other than that I'm stumped
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What is the definition of Parking vs Waiting?
I would have thought that if he was asleep waiting for the Restaurant to open , he was not 'parked', merely waiting. At least worth appealing?
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What a pathetic situation it sounds like you have there. A boycott shouldn't be that hard to organize - just leaving the motorway to get petrol in small towns nearby should be possible with a little organization, and a few days of this should be noticed by the fine people who own the motorway "service" stations. I wonder who is being serviced here.
It also sounds like a business opportunity for someone who does have a clue what "service" means. A shower would be welcome at the end of a long day of driving.
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Cant sleep for more that 2 hours at a service station?
Oh well, at least it stops you waking with a sore throat from being gassed and wondering where all your stuff has gone from the car.
I do agree its a shameful practice from the MSA's however they are not unique in charging you to park and then absolving themselves of any responsibility to you or your property - that is the case with all pay and displays - its just that you are a captive audience.
Like has been said, they encourage you to take a break then penalise you when you do - its two organisations that are not working together it being the free market economy - big business just cares about profit and the government like to tell you what to do.
May be I'm paranoid but I would definately not park in just any lay-by off the road to avoid this scenario. Its dangerous out there and lets face it, you are at your most vulnerable whilst asleep.
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i've never been a 'vanner'...what do those folk do? If i was to do a long journey in a camper van or towing a caravan, the easiest option would be to pull in to a service station and go to bed until you feel like waking up.
do they have to arrange a proper camp site etc.....seems a bit harsh to have to pay for a site for no doubt 24 hours and not necessarily near the m/way.......when you might want to stay there only 6 hours or so, if you want to maximise the time at your end destination
I have noticed many lay bys with 'no overnight camping signs' in them...what harm does it do? Most beauty spots don't have tourists wanting to look at the view in the middle of the night.
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I have noticed many lay bys with 'no overnight camping signs' in them...what harm does it do?
Just think about it - if there were no time limitations, the short term car park becomes a longterm stay. How would you "police" any misuse of such leniency?
Also, in reply to some earlier points, the MSA operators do so under terms of a contract they enter in to with the Dept of Transport. Under that contract, they are required to provide certain free services -parking, toilets, etc. - the cost of which they hope to recover from the chargeable activities - eg. sale of food, petrol, accommodation, etc.
The DOT reckon that 2 hours is sufficient for a break to relax on a long journey. Any more, and the MSA operator is entitled to charge you for the use of the facility. The MSA operator also has to pay a fee to the DOT for the privilege of running the MSA at their own profit/loss risk.
Of course, the DOT has other options to provide all these services free, eg. nationalise all of them, or contract them out to private operators and fund it all via another levy on your fuel or road-tax. Knowing that the NHS charge for parking, what chance is there that the DOT would allow you to park free at nationalised MSAs?
Edited by jbif on 03/03/2008 at 20:37
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i've never been a 'vanner'...what do those folk do? If i was to do a long journey in a camper van or towing a caravan the easiest option would be to pull in to a service station and go to bed until you feel like waking up.
Not feasible, unfortunately.
Most services only have a very small caravan parking area, and as often as not some of the bays are filled with lorries. I wouldn't mind going to the lorry area, but a number of the MSAs fine you if you park in the lorry area - even for a little while.
I've had a couple of long tows where I've gone into 5 or 6 consecutive MSAs desperate for a break, only to find no spaces left and be forced to carry on. The car and caravan combined is just over 12m, so the normal car parks are out.
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"charging you to park and then absolving themselves of any responsibility to you or your property - that is the case with all pay and displays"
Funny you should say that - I have a case now on my hands, and I think I may have found a loophole in this assertion by car park operators - watch this space.
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PU,
Are you going to cheer up all 43 English and Welsh police forces by setting a precedent that a car park owner has responsibilities that cannot be negated by a disclaiming sign?
If so watch the car crime figures drop...as they have done in car parks that win awards for it.
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Oh no, civil obligations.....funny you should say what you did though. Been looking at this ParkMark stuff in some detail....interesting.
Edited by Pugugly on 03/03/2008 at 19:44
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"charging you to park and then absolving themselves of any responsibility to you or your property - that is the case with all pay and displays"
refer to: www.logiclaw.co.uk/pages/PJ.html
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Yes, thanks for the link! Some very sensible ideas on that page.
My quarrel is not necesarily that you have to abide by certain parking rules or even have to pay penalties it is just that the sign is very one sided.
There isnt a little man in a booth you can agree terms with and exchange money.
Yes, I know its me that is wanting to use their land for an hour or two to go shopping, but lets face it, 3 or 4 quid is still money which should hold some weight no matter how small the amount i.e it forms a form of contract based upon a promise to pay the bearer and it is the queens.
Am I being silly here or should I have rights when using money?
If i buy a washing machine I have rights because I have given money for the service of supplying a goods. No amount of signage can remove the shops duty of care to me can it?
Why not with a parking service. They can take a running jump if they think they dont have to reasonable look after my car when I am on their land and I have paid money.
Rant over! :-)
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Go on then PU, you finally going to let us in on the secret, we have all been watching for 9 months now!!
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Settled out of Court - thus no precedent - oh well. Where has nine months gone.....?
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Certainly no picnic area (or at least what I would term a picnic area) at most MSAs - or have I just missed them for the last 40 years. I can think of a few picnic tables on grass at Strensham but other than that I'm stumped
Visit the services at Tebay (North & South) and Killington Lake on the M6. Not just picnic tables but lovely little duck ponds and signed walks.
Maybe that's why they're always voted the best in the UK.
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