There is an ongoing debate about the complications of new cars and the difficulties of DIY servicing.
I have this theory that if bulbs are difficult to change then the rest of the car is also going to be a pig.
This theory works on my vehicles including the newest car, a 1998 Hyundai, I have managed to maintain this, including a cambelt change, without the aid of a manual (not available), and I can change any bulb (except dashboard bulbs) in under a couple of minutes.
I am assuming that some models are designed for the third world market where back street servicing is the norm and a complicated car simply would have no secondhand value and it seems to me that these are the future for those of us who can't or won't buy new cars with warranties.
I would guess there will be notable exceptions to this theory, the 2CV being an example, but would the bulb test, in general, be a good criteria for judging the DIY friendliness of a vehicle?
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One mans junk is another mans treasure
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I had no problems changing the headlight bulbs on my 406, but I'll be beggared if I can work out how to get at the sidelight bulbs.
DB
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I tried it on my 03/03 Focus, gave up, and left it to my dealer. They said they had to remove the radiator grille and the headlight for the nearside.
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L\'escargot.
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Mk 2 Focus - One screw to release headlamp unit, change duff lamp, replace. Even I can manage that in about two minutes. I think most people could if they RTM, assuming that it can be done witout dismantling half the car. I just hope one of the many computers that run the car doesnt get confused.
Edited by Old Navy on 13/11/2007 at 08:38
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On the mk1 Focus TDDi, I can categorically state that the NS bulb cannot be changed without extensive dismantling.
Scenic II is very awkward, but just possible.
Mondeo II is a doddle (headlights release and refit in seconds)
Cheers
DP
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04 Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi Dynamique
00 Mondeo 1.8TD LX
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DP, for "mondeo II" do you mean the model which has just been replaced? Am planning to upgrade headlamp bulbs on my 2002/52 and am hoping it will be a doddle.
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Round The Bend - I had a local garage change the n/s headlamp bulb on my Mondeo II and the amount of stuff he had to remove to get at it and the tools he used stunned me although TBH I'm totally non tech. Took him at least 15 minutes - £6 for the bulb and £10 to fit it - bargain!
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I thought that it was just pull up the two sheet metal rods out and lift out the headlight assembly. Usually takes me longer to find the pliers than to change the bulb.
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I read often, only post occasionally
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>>I had a local garage change the n/s headlamp bulb on my Mondeo II and the amount of stuff he had to remove to get at it it and the tools he used stunned me.
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Having changed headlamp bulbs more than once on my Mk II ...
The shield above the grill has three poppers to release it and then the grill is unscrewed and unclipped. This allows access to two specific screws that are removed and one eased else you "adjust" the aim of the headlights. Then you can lift out the whole unit to change the bulbs.
The online bulb tables from bulb suppliers are incorrect for my Mondeo so that is another minor problem.
Certainly not the sort of job to undertake in the dark on a wet night even if, like me, you have done it, in no hurry, on a sunny day in your drive.
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'06 Subaru Outback - excellent owner's manual gives full details for those bulbs which can be changed by the owner, including dip beam and main beam, but around half the bulbs are "refer to dealer".
Many modern cars are designed for efficient production with no real regard for subsequent work whether routine servicing or repairs.
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My VW Bora's headlight bulbs are reasonably easy and quick to replace, although the nearside head and side lights prove a little more difficult to get at due to the battery housing being close to the cover.
I presume it's the same arrangement for a Golf.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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On the mk1 Focus ...... I can categorically state that the NS bulb cannot be changed without extensive dismantling.
I agree ~ contrary to what the Haynes manual says!
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L\'escargot.
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"I had no problems changing the headlight bulbs on my 406"
Yeah, same here, had two blown headlight bulbs this year after 20 years of it never happening. I was surprised how easy it was. I don't know about the sidelights, but on the 605 it was a garage job.
What I don't understand is how you can hammer a car up and down the country for 10 years without damaging a bulb but when you knock a table lamp over it always always always always always always always blows the bulb.
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There must be joke coming about how many Backroomers it takes to change a headlight bulb :-)
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On my 8yr old Saab its fairly easy now I know how, without removing any trim. But access is better on one side than the other; first time i did it I nearly cut my fingers and nearly broke the spring clip that holds the bulb in.
Does anyone know how you change one in an Audi A4 (B6)? My Dad was stumped so took it to an independant garage to get one fitted. I thought he might need to remove the headlamp unit, but did not have time to look at it with him..
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"How many Backroomers it takes to change a headlight bulb"
Er 200? One to change it and the rest to tell him that he's bought the wrong one.
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Fiddly (as in limited space between air filter & battery), but by no means impossible with both my previous Vectra-C and current face lift one.
In fact none of my Vauxhalls have been difficult to change the headlight bulb.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 13/11/2007 at 10:31
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As I found out last night on a Sainsburys Petrol Station forecourt, the Golf Mk4 headlights are a less than 5 minute job, although as someone above said, the battery housing does cause some more difficult on that side!
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Tried to do the headlight on my mk1 cortina last night and the whole light and half the front wing is now scraping on the floor in front of my 550/12 would it be safe to go to the bookies in said car?
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On my previous model Passat you had to remove some plastic trim in the engine bay to change one of the bulbs. And one of the rear light clusters was also a paint if you had the CD changer in the boot which I did - you had to do it by feel but couldn't see anything!
Also had an Audi A4 that needed a new bulb. Went to the Audi garage and they said it was a job to do in the workshop and it would be an hour! Didn't charge me though.
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would it be safe to go to the bookies in said car?
BB
Only if you are a betting man...?
P.S. It only takes one psychotherapist to change a headlight bulb......
[But the bulb has to want to change....]
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Yes, well its one of the things i consider when buying a new car.
Also, can heater motor/resistor pack be accessed without taking the dash out.
( I have a keen interest in that)
regards
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98 Prelude. Nearside simple. Offside simple after following handbook advice to slide cooling system overflow bottle straight up in its mounting.
2CVs aren't actually very simple to maintain - that's why you see many more Renault 4s than 2CVs on the back roads of France...
Edited by mike hannon on 13/11/2007 at 14:56
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"can heater motor/resistor pack be accessed without taking the dash out"
That must stop the salesmen in their tracks.. :-)
Edited by J Bonington Jagworth on 14/11/2007 at 10:28
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Must do the very old joke. Apologies in advance.......
How many car dealers does it take to change a light bulb?
None at all. It's not covered by the guarantee, Sir.
JS
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On a Passat nearside headlight, it is easier if you stand on your head and work upside down! I gave up on the sidelights, which were given free with my Osram 50% bulbs.
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Before this totally degenerates and gets moved:
How many mice does it take to screw in a light bulb?
Two, but never mind that! How did they get in there in the first place?
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56 Megane - to get to the bulbs you need open a small panel from under the wheel arch. Even with skinny wrists like mine, access is limited - possibly improved by jacking the car and removing the wheel - not a job of a wet wintry evening, which is when bulbs tend to go
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"I have this theory that if bulbs are difficult to change then the rest of the car is also going to be a pig."
Does your hypothesis fall apart if I tell you that on all the Cits we have had (Couple each of BXs Xantias and Berlingos) it has been easy? In fact, with the BXs it was easy to "unclip" the headlights, take them out and fit bulbs.
I have to say, that I have rarely had to do it though - I wonder if some cars go through headlight bulbs much faster than others?
Perhaps it depends on how often you tailgate others in outside lane flashing your lights -- which I don't do!!! ;-)
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Phil
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Land Rover easy peasy - well maybe !
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Phil, perhaps my Xantia is different to yours (HDi 110). While the nearside bulb is do-able with small hands the offside is seriously obstructed by the aircon unit.
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Just checked the Skoda's handbook, yes it can be as can the fog lamps.
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Brompt,
You are probably right - our new (!) Xantia is an HDi 110 also with A/C. I havent had to change a bulb yet in 7 years (you know how reliable Cit electrics are!) but I do remember checking, when we first got the car that I could remove bulbs - daft I know - but I have this image of driving at night, bulbs going and trying to change one in the dark! So I practise!
On the Berlingo, I found that the bolts holding the rear light fittings were much too tight so loosened them to finger tight just in case.
On writing this I realise what an odd peson I am!! ;-)
Phil
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Phil
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Good Evening,
I am sorry to disturb this topic with a question which is completely different.
Phil, I have a Xantia with an Height corrector problem. I read in one of your post that you had an article about how to fix from a height corrector on my Xantia
New Sat 21 Sep 02 00:52
Xantia Suspension - PhilW
David W will be right. Get the lubricant on those linkages before paying for a new height corrector. I've gone 500,000 miles on a couple of BXs and Xantias without a height corrector going wrong. And if you want instructions on how to service a HC I can e-mail you an excellent step by step article by Anders Jensen
PhilW
if you still had this article, I would be very pleased if you could help me by sending it to me.
Many thanks, and sorry for disturbing this subject
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Citroen C15, 30 second job (getting the correct replacment bulb however was a pain in the butt).
Daughts old motor, the KA, you need hands like a child, took about 20 minutes.
Bulb not gone on the Pug, yet, if thats not tempting fate I dunno what is.
Cheers
CBG
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Drink Lager, Talk Piffle,
Edited by corblimeyguvnar{P} on 13/11/2007 at 20:18
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Just remembered, daughter has previously asked me to change headlight bulbs on her 02 Micra. I recollect that one side was tighter than the other but neither needed any dismantling, this of course is another DIY friendly motor.
Perhaps if the headlights are difficult it's indicative that the manufacturer hopes to steer his customers towards dealer servicing and so there is likely to be lots of special tools and procedures required for other work.
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One mans junk is another mans treasure
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Jaguar S-Type easy 10 minutes, no tools
Porsche 944 Easy 10 minutes, Phillips screwdriver to undo headlamp cover.
Triumph TR7 as above....
Alfa 156 needs fingers that are slim & 20 minutes a side but no tools.
Jim
54 Jaguar S-Type 2.7 SE Diesel
87 Porsche 944 Lux 2.5
80 TR7V8
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Mk2 Mondeo is NOT a doddle its a nuisance. You need two different types of screwdrivers and must completely remove both the grille and the headlight.
My 5 Series, however, is a doddle.
1) Open bonnet
2) Remove bulb
End of.
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MichaelR:
ah! so YOURS is the beemer with only one working headlight! I suggest you should have fitted a new one after stage 2 above - oh and don't forget to shut the bonnet...:)
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I once tried to change the OS headlight bulb on my friends Nissan 100NX, and came to the conclusion that I didn't have enough joints in my arm. On the K11 Micra of a similar age though you can change any bulb in seconds without breaking a sweat :)
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interestingly Kuang the k11 is the only car that i find puts up a severe struggle between wiring loom plug and bulb,ive inadvertantly smashed the bulb holder stay bar before now on these and had to replace the catch with a self tapping screw,my theory (slight cough) which is all mine is that the bulb overheats and welds the connector on
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puts up a severe struggle between wiring loom plug and bulb
I've probably been lucky with mine so far - I've never had one weld itself in, but then this has been the single most reliable and predictable car I've ever owned :)
**note to Fate - bog off**
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It strikes me as absurd that carrying spare bulbs is mandatory in many countries, while there is no apparent requirement to make them simple to change at the roadside!
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Volvo 240. Dead easy, takes about 5 seconds. Pull back rubber cover, unplug socket, release spring clip, swap bulb, replace clip, socket and rubber. It's hardly worth stopping the engine.
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Touran, not too bad. Golf V, a right pain.
Routine servicing on these cars is not too bad (oil change etc), but more complex servicing is a nightmare.
Joe
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Volvo 240. Dead easy takes about 5 seconds. Pull back rubber cover unplug socket release spring clip swap bulb replace clip socket and rubber. It's hardly worth stopping the engine.
Ah yes Cliff, when I posted I had my dear old Volvo 740 in mind. Also if it is raining it is possible to climb inside the engine compartment and parially close the bonnet whilst changing the bulb :)
In fact reading the woes in Technical about ECU's and CR's I now don't regret this years MOT struggle as the bonus is another year of simple maintenance
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One mans junk is another mans treasure
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Current Accord - LHS is difficult but about 10 minutes, RHS- have not worked out how to get my hand through the small gap yet!
Luckily it was the LHS that went.
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Interesting trip home last night, got in to the car and thought lights were a little dim - RHS bulb gone - this is the "difficult" one so decided I would go to the dealer today for them to change it. I did check that the other was still on and drove on fog lamps.
Crossing Cannock Chase realised both headlights were off! These idiots who drive on foglamps only in the dark should be banned!
Had two new bulbs (when one went in France I put my spare in (4yrs old) and bought a pair to go in when the dealer next had it). When I got home last night they both went in, RHS took some thought and removal of the top part of the washer bottle filler tube so I could (just) get my hand in.
So I can replace both my headlamp bulbs in about 30 minutes!
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>> Also if it is raining it is possible to climb inside the engine compartment and partially close the bonnet whilst changing the bulb :)
>>>>
I think in that case I would stop the engine first.
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Jag X Type....
N/S..looked easy, could see everything that was needed and just a rubber protector and a clip......but..... my hands were too big and the space was too fiddly...so fuse box had to be moved first, which to be fair was straightforward.
O/S ..looked the same...but...the brake cylinder? and metal pipes are there which is not at all easily movable so i suspect you'd need to bribe a child to do it for you, although irritatingly sat there in full view
Glad TR7V8 posted above re S type, as have never had to change one in 5.5 years, but good to know it's easy if i had to
Edited by Westpig on 15/11/2007 at 14:26
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Fiat Marea Weekend - headlights an absolute doddle.
- tail lights slightly more difficult as you need a socket set with a long extension to remove the whole lighting unit.
One of the worst small cars to change a headlamp is the Ford Ka. These can take over an hour of swearing at the bad design, next time you will pay some to do it - according to my neighbour whose wife and daughter both have a Ka.
What infuriates me more is that car testers in their reports make no comments about simple driver jobs, like changing a bulb or topping up the washer bottle.
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Roger
A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well.
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I think being unable to easily change a light bulb is the price you have to pay for having modern sophisticated headlights, and for having all the space-absorbing high-tech goodies that you now get under the bonnet. You don't get owt for nowt ~ and probably nor should you expect to.
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L\'escargot.
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You don't get owt for nowt ~ and probably nor should you expect to.
What you expect and what you ought to get are not necessarily the same thing.
Is it really unreasonable to expect cars to be designed so that frequently replaced components like light bulbs, brake linings, filters, clutch linings, spark plugs etc. can be replaced without inordinate difficulty? I don't think so. It is a primary duty of car designers, and they aren't always up to it.
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It is a primary duty of car designers and they aren't always up to it.
Different parts of a car are (obviously) designed by different teams of people. Each design team leader will have his priorities and they may well clash with the priorities of other team leaders. I personally think it's amazing how it all comes together in the end.
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L\'escargot.
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bit off topic (almost) but if you check out
www.liveleak.com/view?i=d62_1194898859 (- this is part 1, part 2 is there too.)
you'll see how a BMW goes from a lump of raw steel to a working vehicle - it's in German (what else for a beemer) but good none the less
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Thanks to all who warned me about the tricky Mondeo fitting. Went to Halfords today and for some super brilliance headlamp bulbs. As they were on a BOGOF only had to pay £4.99 to have both fitted. For the record it took the guy in overalls 20 mins (with much muttering).
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The nearside bulb on my '98 Civic is fairly easy,(-the offside a bit more of a fiddle) On a previous Pug 305, it was a two minute job for either side-lift bonnet,turn two plastic clips to release grille, flip an over-the-centre toggle to remove headlight.Sidelights also accessible once the headlights were out.
However, on my '92 Civic CRX, if the(seperate)main beam lens goes, it's a garage job.
P.
Edited by P.Mason {P} on 21/11/2007 at 15:15
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RTB
Thanks for the update. (with no muttering)
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One of the worst small cars to change a headlamp is the Ford Ka. These can take over an hour of swearing at the bad design next time you will pay some to do it - according to my neighbour whose wife and daughter both have a Ka.
I've recently had to replace both dip bulbs on a 05 plate KA.
The book, and design, are obviously for the original version: no PAS pipes or OHC in the way.
If found I could _just_ manage to do UK passenger side from under the bonnet, but skinned knuckles in the process (it was dark at the time, which didn't help at all).
The other side went a couple of weeks later, and the only sensible way of doing it involved taking the wheel off and the wheel arch liner out (about 7 T27 studs/self tappers) and access is then OK from inside the wheel arch.
I wonder if the short lamp life is down to the (slightly) high voltage with the silver/calcium battery. (v squared over r, and all that).
I reckon I could change all headlamp bulbs in my "2B" Punto in less time that it took me to write this post...
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Well, shortly after me saying the Micra has been fine, one of my headlights has packed in - I only noticed this evening whilst looking at the reflection on the back of a van and wondering why half my car was missing :)
The sidelight and main beam don't come on but it will work on full beam, so I think I can rule out the fusebox and bulb connectors. There's no buzzing so I reckon the dim/delay box is probably ok, so I'm suspecting the contacts in the indicator stalk as I gather these do get a bit flaky from time to time. Have to go out first thing tomorrow and have a prod about..
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My old 2004 (B6) Audi A4 was extremely difficult to change both front and rear bulbs on. In fact unless you were a very confident DIY mechanic the headlights had to be left to the garage.
However I now have a B7 Audi A4 which has been re-designed in a number of areas to make bulb changing easier, now they tell you how to do it in the manual, before it just said consult your dealer.
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I noticed LHS bulb had blown last week. (I can't see why the part on the bulb can't have a dob of yellow paint or a single flange or symbol to align it perfectly with the hole in the lens shroud!) Took me ten minutes and much blind fumbling to replace it and the RHS one blew in sympathy 100m down the road. 2 years almost to the day since I'd fitted new pair.
I get the impression that bulbs are now becoming another routine, non-DIY throwaway item which manfacturers *assume* we'll pay to get changed at intervals, just like the tyres, cambelt, etc.
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Its the same as Ruperts scooby for the accord IIRC.
All explained in the owners manual - where ever it is now.
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Tried, and failed.
Ended up paying a backstreet garage to do it on the spot. £7...
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Ended up paying a backstreet garage to do it on the spot.
Spotlight? ;-)
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L\'escargot.
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2000 Merc C class, headlight bulb change a doddle, usual spring clips and a curse or two and you are there.
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Have now done both dipped headlamp bulbs on the Scenic (NS failed last weekend!)
NS - 10mm spanner to remove the battery cover, and then access from the gap between the "front" of the battery and the bonnet slam panel. Very tight access in that your hands bleed afterwards, and you work by feel rather than vision, but it's do-able. The "bayonet" style fitting of the bulb holder fitting into the light unit is a nice touch and saves fiddling with those stupid wire clips. There's also a reasonable amount of slack on the wiring to let you move the bulb to a more workable position to unplug it.
OS - Unclip washer bottle neck from the slam panel and bend it back as far as you dare. Place hand in the gap and access is fairly easy, although again by feel rather than vision.
Main beam bulbs are impossible to reach with the headlamp in situ which means bumper off, which means probably an hour's labour. How can it be legal to design a car in this way, when many countries force you to carry a spare bulb set by law? Spare bulb sets are no use if you can't get to the bulb to replace it.
Cheers
DP
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04 Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi Dynamique
00 Mondeo 1.8TD LX
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Just replaced the headlamp bulb on my MB E class. Piece of cake!
Open bonnet, unscrew thing like the top of a jam pot, remove old bulb, replace with new bulb taking care not to touch glass with fingers, replace jam pot cover, check the bulb works.
Job done! About two minutes!
Who said Mercs were difficult to work on? (this is as far as I go with DIY)
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A very good thread and a good read so far!
I haven't had to change the headlight bulbs yet on my Mazda 323 but I had to change the nearside read light and it was dead easy and simple job. Just had to remove 3 nuts, unplugged the light, the whole process didn't take more than 10 minutes.
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Managed them on the Almera in a few mins in Halfords car park, using no tools. Inaccessible bulbs = very poor design. They're a part which should be easily changeable by a novice, using only their hands, by the roadside IMO.
As always at this time of year, there are rather a lot of cars driving round with headlamps out - but I can't help wondering how many drivers know their lights aren't working, and don't want to be lumbered with a garage bill for replacing the bulb.
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i pulled out on a car last night because it had sidelights only on ,i didnt see it,then they vehemently blew their horn at me,no wonder we have road rage,i squeezed my steering wheel and carried on driving.............
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I'm surprised with all the complex electronics in modern cars that they can't actually detect when a bulb has blown and give a warning message.
I'm not sure how easy it is to change the headlight bulbs on my C-Max - the manual doesn't tell you how! I think it might be as simple as undoing the yellow hex bolts and sliding the whole unit out though.
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I'm surprised with all the complex electronics in modern cars that they can't actually detect when a bulb has blown and give a warning message.
Some cars do.
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>>all the complex electronics...
Lamp failure can be detected without any fancy electronics. All that's needed is a so-called reed switch, which responds to a magnetic field. You wrap a few turns of the wire to one light around the switch, and a few turns of the wire to th other light - but in the opposite sense. So, when both lights are running, the magnetic fields cancel, and when one lamp fails, the imbalance in the magnetic field triggers the reed switch.
Number_Cruncher
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Some higher spec 80's Vauxhalls had bulb failure warning lights. In the mk2 Astra it was a bright amber thing in a pod on the top centre of the dash. A great idea because it annoyed the hell out of you, particularly at night, so encouraged you to get the bulb changed.
Of course, bulb changes were a 2 minute job on these cars as well, so no excuses. ISTRC these were brake light related rather than headlight, but a good idea nonetheless.
Cheers
DP
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04 Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi Dynamique
00 Mondeo 1.8TD LX
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...modern cars that they can't actually detect when a bulb has blown and give a warning message. Some cars do.
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My 98 Mondeo Ghia X has such a feature. It shows a diagram of the light positions and also brake lamps. I think this sort of feature should be standard on all vehicles.
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A Volvo that my father bought could
He bought it in 1978!
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yep, my old Volvo 240 had a bulb failure warning lamp on the dash.
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electronic warning devices, bah humbug, my P4 (1959) has a bulb failure device: a shiny-bobble-on-a-stalk thingy mounted on the top of the wings.
Occasionly, when lighting conditions are suitable, it is possible to see the reflection of the illuminated sidelights.
The later P6 had a much more reliable vertical extension of the plastic lens.
Of course in those far off days it was ok to drive around with sidelights only.....
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One mans junk is another mans treasure
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Try a Citroen C3. The dealers tell you that to change the nearside headlamp bulb that they have to drop the bumper for access! Then they'll charge you an hours labour!!
Can be done in 10 minutes with practice and a small torch,mirror and a pair of 90' long nosed pliers.
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and a pair of 90' long nosed pliers.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 90 foot long nosed pliers? where did you buy those then? ;-o
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You don't have to buy them, you park outside the shop with the bonnet up and use them without leaving the premises. :)
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I assume it means 90 degrees. If I can't find the tool I want in a DIY store I try Drapers tinyurl.com/2c7k84 followed by RS tinyurl.com/2c8wcj
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L\'escargot.
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Today I changed the nearside bulb on SWMBO's 2003 Yaris: had to unbolt the fuse box and the battery clamp to be able to get at it, so around 15 minutes and moderate swearing. It would have been worse for anyone with large hands. Offside looks like 5 minutes or less though.
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citroen c5 diesel nearside headlamp is a battery out of the way job -easy, the difficulty bit is getting the engine to run properly and reprogramming the radio, the clock and electric windows.The offside impossible hydraulic fluid resovoir in the way. So phone up lease company and say cannot use car illegal to drive, they come with low loader remove car to dealer and let them have the problem.
What a pile of blimps.
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rustbucket (the original)
sweafilter activation replaced with a random word
Edited by Pugugly {P} on 01/12/2007 at 21:07
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Changed the headlight on the Boxster first day I had it, turned the tightening clamp bolt the wrong way & snapped the mounting plate, £100 repair!
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SWMBO's MX5 mk1 (pop-up lights), a doddle. Remove the plastic cover from the underside & sides of the lights (popped up, obviously), push in lens retaining ring & rotate, off it comes. Change bulb & refit. 5 mins, all in all.
Alex.
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Dr Alex Mears
Volvo 940S estate 1993
Maxda MX5 1.8iS 1997
Yamaha RD350 YPVS 1992
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