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'exhaust emissions are hydrogen and oxygen' some typo. That is what goes in to the engine not out. Regards Peter
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In reply to Peter D:
I was going to say the same! When I drove a hydrogen powered car all that came out the exhaust was water.
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Water is hydrogen and oxygen (H2O)
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How much emmbeded carbon is in the vehicle yet alone the production of the hydrogen and oxygen?
Hypocrisy.
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How much emmbeded carbon is in the vehicle yet alone the production of the hydrogen and oxygen? Hypocrisy.
No, I don't think so. This is new technology; a proof of concept. It will improve and might in the end be viable, or it might not. But if politicians are not allowed to set an example then who is? And if motor manufacturers are not able to get these high profile media events for their new technology, then why would they bother to develop it? There is essentially no market for Hydrogen cars at the moment, so BMW (and others) have to make one. They seem to be having no problem selling us dino-motors, so where else is the motivation coming from?
Hypocrisy would be making politicos cars exempt regardless of what fuel they burn.
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>> Hypocrisy. No I don't think so. This is new technology; a proof of concept. It will improve and might in the end be viable or it might not. ................ >> Hypocrisy would be making politicos cars exempt regardless of what fuel they burn.
No because it communicates the wrong messages, it is not better for the environment to give up a three year old Jag (or whatever NG was driving/using) and run a new hybrid / hydrogen car, to the contrary it is better for the environment to run the jag for 15 or 20 years and avoid the need for the hybrid / hydogen car being built.
I am not saying that we should stop or even reduce the production of new vehicles, yet alone cleaner ones, rather i am saying that it is the messages that manufacturers PR and the politico spin give us that are wrong, half truths at best.
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What about running a Hydrogen car for 20 years? The Jag was new once and the marginal environmental cost when it was new was also very high. Since we are going to be buying new cars (the power of the motoring lobby is such that no electable politician could square up to it), it's better that we have cleaner ones. It is PR of course, and it is certainly true that BMW would prefer that we buy a new hydro-car than run a ten year-old dino-vehicle, but I think you'll agree that persuasion by PR is better than dictat. What London (and other cities) are doing is forcing the market to change, making a market for cleaner vehicles where none existed before. That seems to me to be exactly the job of a politician, because where there is profit there is an unwillingness to change.
But we can choose what to do and as it happens I agree with you about keeping cars a long time. I look forward to driving a Hydrogen car when I buy a Chinese Rover (complete with retro 1980s-style digital clock) for my retirement.
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Well said Basketcase, my thoughts entirely.
There appears to be a deep stroke of luddism running through the responders on this site.
Any new fuel is BAD, New technology is BAD, anythhing that is not running on petrol using 50 year old technology is BAD. If most of you had your way we would all be cranking starting handles every morning.
Stuff has to be tested. Stuff has to be tried, and you should APPLAUD any local government body that is testing new technology as it clearly shows they are looking at the FUTURE of personal transport.
If you lot of dinosaurs dont watch out, one day you will all wake up with the fuel gone and nothing in its place.
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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In reply to Pot:
I am aware of that! However, they are not emitted as hydrogen and oxygen gas but as water.
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In reply to Pot:
i had some sodium and chlorine sprinkled over my fish and chips last night.
strangely neither did me any instant harm even though my chemistry tells me that the two elements are very very dangerous.
( mind you, my doctor has advised me to go easy on this combination of sodium and chlorine for some reason or other )
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and another thing, isn't the environmental cost of producing the hydrogen pretty bad?
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"and another thing, isn't the environmental cost of producing the hydrogen pretty bad?"
Approx 10te of CO2 per 1 te of H2, if steam-methane reforming is used (mostly it is for H2 produced from fossil fuels) - and that doesn't include compression. H2 produced by electrolysis using electric generated from 100% renewable sources wouldn't be so bad - but I doubt there is any of that in the UK at the moment.
H2 cars are a long way off being mainstream and green yet.....
--
RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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but I think you'll agree that persuasion by PR is better than dictat. >>
Stuff has to be tested. Stuff has to be tried and you should APPLAUD any local government body that is testing new technology as it clearly shows they are looking at the FUTURE of personal transport. If you lot of dinosaurs dont watch out one day you will all wake up with the fuel gone and nothing in its place.
Yes PR is better than dictat, it is the messages that are wrong though, the "lets all drive a hybrid and save the world" message that underlines most gov and green policy these days could not be further from the truth.
The message should be "pay 0.1p in the pound (or whatever) towards UN / gov funded research projects into future transpsort tech involving the mulinational motor companies and in the meantime use your current car as economically as possible"
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Well said Basketcase, my thoughts entirely. There appears to be a deep stroke of luddism running through the responders on this site.
well said both baskerville and tvm.
i agree with you two entirely.
there is no hypocrisy in this at all.
and irrespective of whether there is any longterm overall carbon benefit or not.
nicky gavron, or ken livingstone, or anyone else for that matter is welcome to run a car based on an experimental car that looks ahead to the days when there may be a desperate shortage of oil.
if it becomes a viable technical, economic and environmentally sound alterantive, then all well and good.
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Seeing as there is only 1 filling station for hydrogen in the whole country, I wonder how often it wil run on hydrogen, and how often it will run on unleaded?
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so a car that runs on air drivng a man around that talks a lot of it
( i was being kind)
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