As some backroomers will know, my wife acquired a Suzuki Swift about a year ago. An ABS sensor failed yesterday and, according to the local dealer, it is not a simple replace the sensor job, because it involves the drive shaft as well (obviously on one of the front wheels). The chap from the service department was quoting me a replacement price of around £360, until I told him the car was still under warranty, which took the wind out of his sails (why did he not know/check this out first of all?). He then said the the part(s) could not be obtained until Friday, so I said we would leave the car with them. Later in the day, however, he rang my wife to say there are none of these parts in the country and they can't get one for at least a month.
I am not filled with a lot of optimism for the future ownership of this car.
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Japanesse design but made in Hungary.
I think there is such pressure on suppliers to reduce prices thes days that quality is almost bound to suffer. As I mentioned on another thread, Toyota have been having component problems with the Yaris, probably for the same reasons.
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One has to question the design though, if this failure requires more than just the replacement of a sensor. I would be have been very annoyed to have to have been presented with a bill for this item, if the car had been out of warranty.
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A certain amount of cock-and-bull here, I'm afraid.
My sister bought a Swift about a year ago, and as you can imagine I have been over it with a fine tooth comb.
First of all, although the Swift is **assembled** in Hungary the parts are actually made all over the place. For example the engine management and steering rack are made in Japan, the shocks are made by Monroe in Poland.
The ABS system is an ATE (Teves) system and made in....wait for it.....Germany.. The rest of the brake hydraulics and friction parts are made by TRW (Lucas-Girling, as was, until take over by Varity Corp., and then TRW - the Americans!). In fact about half the world's brakes are now TRW.
The front ABS sensor on the Swift is nothing at all to do with the driveshaft - whoever said that is an idiot. It is a perfectly standard Bosch/ATE design. Jack up, take off wheel, disconnect in-line connector, undo the single clamp bolt and pull out the sensor. 10 minutes work. Don't know where the £360 comes from either - seems very hard to believe..
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The front ABS sensor on the Swift is nothing at all to do with the driveshaft
Well, in the thread "Faulty ABS - MOT failure?" - I had the same problem with ABS sensors and Hyundai dealer had told me the same thing i.e. the driveshaft needs to be replaced.
However, I'm not that technical, so can't comment on that.
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I can promise you 200% that the driveshaft does not need to be removed on a Swift - just checked in the factory manual!! 10 minute job.
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and i wonder why i bother on forurms------------
thanks aprilia
if it wasnt for you and people like you i would just get on with my job and take my knowledge to the grave
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>> The front ABS sensor on the Swift is nothing at all to do with the driveshaft Well in the thread "Faulty ABS - MOT failure?" - I had the same problem with ABS sensors and Hyundai dealer had told me the same thing i.e. the driveshaft needs to be replaced. However I'm not that technical so can't comment on that.
On the Hyundai the reluctor ring (ABS 'toothed wheel') is formed on the driveshaft. If it is damaged then you need a new driveshaft - nothing to do with the sensor.
On the Swift the reluctor is on the hub assy., IIRC. Can't see how driveshaft comes into it, unless the ABS sensor is actually OK and its the hub assy that's faulty??
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Actually thinking about this further, it COULD be the reluctor ring that is at fault (cracked or damaged by road debris) - that would square more with the talk about driveshaft and the price would be more realistic than for the sensor. In this case its more likely a case of mechanical/physical damage of some sort, rather than 'failure' as such. Would be interested to hear the full story...
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On the Hyundai the reluctor ring (ABS 'toothed wheel') is formed on the driveshaft.
I've always associated the driveshaft as the metal bar between the inner and out CV joints, and the reluctor ring being part of the CV joint.
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>> On the Hyundai the reluctor ring (ABS 'toothed wheel') is formed on the driveshaft. I've always associated the driveshaft as the metal bar between the inner and out CV joints and the reluctor ring being part of the CV joint.
Yes, your right. But nowadays the driveshaft very often comes complete with CV joints - its renewed as one complete assy. and CV's will not be available seperately (not from the manufacturer anyway).
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why does a non-extraordinary failure of a part in a car get written up as 'japanese reliability'?
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I think the use of the 'query' symbol in the topic title means he is questioning the notion that Japanese cars are very reliable.
If it is indeed the reluctor ring which has broken/cracked on this car then it would qualify as an 'extraordinary' failure on a youngish car and more than likely due to mechanic shock/impact rather than some kind of inherent fault.
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It's probably good to remember that for Japanese used cars, one of the largest markets in the world is New Zealand. It is often easier, cheaper and faster to source a part from one of the NZ used parts suppliers than it is to get it in the UK. Salt is not used on the roads in NZ so corrosion is not a major problem, cars last longer, and parts are cheaper.
Oh, and the exchange rate is very favourable to the UK.
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Intersting the reference to both Suzuki and Hyundai, they colaborate a lot, i.e. IIRC the Sonata is sold as a Suzuki in the US, so could the problems refered to be the same problem due to shared components?
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We are going to collect the car today, so I will get a fuller picture of the problem. Whether or not it is due to mechanical damage, it is still a failure in a young, low mileage car that one would not expect to happen. The car has never been involve in any kind of accident, or abused in any way, as far as I am aware.
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We are going to collect the car today so I will get a fuller picture of the problem. Whether or not it is due to mechanical damage it is still a failure in a young low mileage car that one would not expect to happen. The car has never been involve in any kind of accident or abused in any way as far as I am aware.
If its the reluctor ring that is damaged then the usual reason is stones or road debri hitting it. Sometime a small stone can work its way into the teeth and then it damages the tooth as the ring turns. I remember having this on a Rover 827 once - went down a rough country track and a stone took out both the sensor AND the ring..expensive.
Obviously there could be a defect with the reluctor ring (like its come loose) - but you'd need to inspect carefully to tell. What you want to avoid is the dealer trying to say its not a manufacturing defect but 'wear and tear' or 'accident damage' and not covered by warranty - e.g. like someone on here last month who had a stone through the air-con condensor on their new Accord - nasty!
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If its the reluctor ring that is damaged then the usual reason is stones or road debri hitting it. Sometime a small stone can work its way into the teeth and then it damages the tooth as the ring turns. I remember having this on a Rover 827 once - went down a rough country track and a stone took out both the sensor AND the ring..expensive. Obviously there could be a defect with the reluctor ring (like its come loose) - but you'd need to inspect carefully to tell. What you want to avoid is the dealer trying to say its not a manufacturing defect but 'wear and tear' or 'accident damage' and not covered by warranty - e.g. like someone on here last month who had a stone through the air-con condensor on their new Accord - nasty!
The dealer hasn't claimed 'wear and tear', they just didn't check to see if the car was under warranty or not before phoning us. Reluctor ring seems to ring a bell but I don't know why it has failed, so I will try and find out today.
I have to say that I am surprised that these things can be damaged by stones, etc, as one would expect stones to be thrown up from the road from time to time. Can they not be protected from this damage in some way?
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I have to say that I am surprised that these things can be damaged by stones etc as one would expect stones to be thrown up from the road from time to time. Can they not be protected from this damage in some way?
On early ABS systems they tended to be quite exposed and often got damaged and corroded. On more recent designs they tend to be 'shielded' in some way, but it is still a very hostile environment. On some 4x4's I have seen the whole assy enclosed within the hub assy - the snag is that they cost a lot more if they do go wrong.
Often it is the nearside ring that seems to fail, presumably due to it having a 'tougher life' by being at the kerbside and striking more debris, drain covers etc. Remember that these parts are on the 'unsprung' part of the suspension and so receive a high level of shocks etc.
One that amazes me on so many cars is the exposed area of radiator and/or air-con condensor which is normally visible under the front bumper. Not many makers fit a grille over this area and its just asking for trouble. A sheet of coarse mesh would cost very little and save the customer from some very expensive repairs.
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One that amazes me on so many cars is the exposed area of radiator and/or air-con condensor which is normally visible under the front bumper. Not many makers fit a grille over this area and its just asking for trouble. A sheet of coarse mesh would cost very little and save the customer from some very expensive repairs.
Thanks for reminding me to fill the gaping gap on the front bumper of our VW T5! There is a radiator behind it (I think for the A/C) which is soo vulnerable. I was thinking of some form of thick gauze, or adapting a plastic grille from something else - it needs to be fairly strong to have half a chance of withstanding a stone travelling at 70 mph.
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I don't think any parts are shared between Suzuki and Hyundai. Suzuki make some Kei-cars for other brands (e.g. Subaru and Nissan) but that is all.
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Sorry my mistake, the Suzuki Verona sold in the US is a rebadged Daewoo Magnus/Leganza, not a Hyundai.
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On checking with the dealer, it appears that whole ring has come off. The person I spoke to referred to it as the 'ABS ring' and they were not able to explain why it had come off.
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I don't know the Suzuki one in detail, but I imagine they are the same as others I've seen (the basic design is more or less standard). The ring is shrunk on, I think, and they are normally very hard and brittle. I imagine it has fractured and then come off. I have seen this a few times. Even if they don't come off, once they are cracked they tend not to work properly (low output from sensor at low speeds).
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So it boils down to either impact damage or manufacturing defect. Wonder which the dealer thinks is to blame??
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So it boils down to either impact damage or manufacturing defect. Wonder which the dealer thinks is to blame??
Very hard to say. If it was cracked from new then the usual symptom is the ABS trying to kick in at low speeds as you come up to a junction (becasue of the low signal from offending ring). If it suddenly stopped working then I would suspect some sort of catastrophic event like a big stone hitting the joint area and it fracturing and being flung off. Probably impossible to know 100% though unless these is damage to surrounding components.
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I don't know the Suzuki one in detail but I imagine they are the same as others I've seen (the basic design is more or less standard). The ring is shrunk on I think and they are normally very hard and brittle.
Hard and brittle doesn't sound like a good recipe for withstanding impact damage.
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Hard and brittle doesn't sound like a good recipe for withstanding impact damage.
No its not, but these sensors work on the variable reluctance principle and so magnetic properties (and cost) are foremost.
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Why is it difficult and/or expensive to surround this ring with a protective cover?
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Why is it difficult and/or expensive to surround this ring with a protective cover?
This is not exclusive to Suzuki though is it? Citroen's setup is no different.
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