May need to tread cautiously here.
It occurs to me that what feels like honest knockabout fun to some of us is experienced as ferocious and painfully humiliating bullying by others. Similarly, the issues raised and positions adopted are seen in relaxed fashion by some, and taken bitterly to heart by others.
Moderators seem more sensitive to this issue than some of the rest of us.
Just a thought, but takes all sorts, no?
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Is this about a certain Mr Cars? Because if it isn't, then I have absolutely no idea what you're on about.
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Nothing like a good arguement - watching the House of Commons, its how our country is run afterall :-)
I think the group dynamics we get on here is much the same as on Top Gear with loads of different views and some healthy debate.
Cant beat a load of enthusiasts having an argument!
Better enjoy it while it lasts because the way things are going, nobody will be allowed to disagree with anyone else!
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Can't agree there stunorthants, no sign of a wish to stifle debate.
But it is clear that the infinite variety of human culture and consciousness throws up the occasional anomaly.
What I mean is ten men's enjoyable roughhouse may be the eleventh man's hellish vortex of violence and nastiness.
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That's just the way life is though isn't Lud? Whether you're on a forum or in the pub.
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Yeah, and I've not seen a non-regular get a rough time. Except maybe Alijazz a while ago, which was a shame.
Overall, I think most people are like me, and use this place as a bunch of like-minded, but not too like minded, people to pass a coffee break with.
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I think it mostly comes down to a combination of two (maybe three) things:
The lack of any emotional, verbal or behavioural clues on a text forum means that it is really easy to take things the wrong way.
Some people don't mind being corrected or having their opinions challenged, others do. It's unrealistic to expect everyone to agree with you, and sometimes you're just plain wrong (such as my hatred of baby on board stickers, where it turns out there is a reason for their existence).
I can't see how the current isn't about as good as you'll get. The moderators continue to protect all from flaming where possible, and all of us seem to avoid getting personal. Works fine for me.
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On othert forums that i use, I have access to all sorts of smileys that can add quite a bit extra to a post. Sometimes posting a little smiley of a man wagging his finger, or someone blowing a raspberry can take the sting out of things and stops people taking things to seriously.
But I accept that the software that powers this forum isn't smiley friendly.
just my 2 cents worth.
MTC
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Of course there's a variety of those that people construct out of characters to take the sting out of their opinions. I always feel a bit silly using them though. Like to get the words just so. But as people say, not everyone can take a challenge even judiciously expressed.
I did get the feeling that someone the other day might have thought people were, you know, extracting that fluid. And they were of course, but in what seemed to me a perfectly jolly and good-humoured way, quoting crummy old pop songs.
But it takes all sorts.
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Crummy? Take that back.
You sir, have offended me. I demand satisfaction. I challenge you to a duel.
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You sir, have offended me. I demand satisfaction. I challenge you to a duel.
Custard pies at dawn, Adam?
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I did get the feeling that someone the other day might have thought people were, you know, extracting that fluid. And they were of course, but in what seemed to me a perfectly jolly and good-humoured way, quoting crummy old pop songs. But it takes all sorts.
Nothing wrong with such banter, it is when a reasoned argument is shot down by a personal insult that I think things go to far, it happens occasionally though is very much the exception and not the rule.
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Noooooooooooo not smileys, a ;-) or two is enough!
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.. Some people don't mind being corrected or having their opinions challenged, others do ..
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well said, that man. how true it is.
some people get do get paranoid on here that i am selectively targetting them. not true at all. i target anyone and everyone who uses sloppy thinking or arguments.
i prefer "discussion" which is the polite exchange of differing views by reasonable people.
i hate "argument" which i think is the emotive exchange of irrational views by despots.
but now i remember
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?f=2&t=33...6
Discussion of moderating policy or actions is inappropriate within the backroom itself and therefore will be removed.?i>
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I don't think we are discussing the moderators, I think we're discussing our own views, actions and interactions with others.
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gordon m
sloppy thinking on someone's part? ::;-) :: . the very first post reads:
"....Moderators seem more sensitive to this issue than some of the rest of us.... "
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Ah, f o n t s i z e s! Hoist on my own petard.
Fair point sir, we've not exactly picked up on the point or really discussed it. But I'll admit that's splitting hairs.
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There are as many differing viewpoints on motoring on this forum as there are contributors. A good thing or all the replies would read "me too".
I don't get paranoid, you ask the people who are constantly watching me!
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>>It occurs to me that what feels like honest knockabout fun to some of us is experienced as ferocious and painfully humiliating bullying by others. Similarly, the issues raised and positions adopted are seen in relaxed fashion by some, and taken bitterly to heart by others.
I think Lud makes a very good point.
But, there's a limit to how carefully we should need to tread. If someone posts a point of view*, but posts it in a boisterous way, as absolute unarguable fact, they are not exactly being timid, and shouldn't be surprised if their point is subject to some scrutiny.
* Especially if it's not true!
However, I know I am a bit of a bull in a china shop, and I suspect I did allow myself to get wound up by Mr cars!
Number_Cruncher
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As I said at the time, it's amazing how often it's the people who shout that everyone's opinion is valid who then turn around and complain of a perceived injustice which amouts to someone daring to disagree with them.
Not that I'm accusing you of that Lub, but it's certainly how I saw the Robcars incident.
As someone else on this thread has stated, insults = too far, argument does not.
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And really, come on, how funny is someone having a hissy fit and declaring that "their face doesn't fit", because they've had their posts deleted, when in fact the mods have just helpfully moved them to a more fitting place?
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Everyones different ,i dont agree with a lot of posts on this site just like im sure many people dont like my posts either ,what i do like is it is moderated by people with a common cause even if its a thankless task, i didnt read too much into the member who was recently ousted as its just another day to me i go to work (very quiet at the mo) i try and earn my bread and like to have a natter with people who like to natter and have an opinion,my own problem is i like my own voice..........too much (alledgedly)
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As a newish, but regular user, I will give you my thoughts. When I first started, I did think some people were a bit pompous, but as I started to join in debates, I quickly realised a lot of it is dry humour. I do sometimes still get wound up by the "black and white" approach of some people, BUT (and it's a big but, and I like those and I cannot lie) I am much the same myself. The quality of debate on here is often startlingly good and then there are the startling things like NOF2MR's pink i-pod case, or BBD's revelations about women down under (pun most definitely intended).
Robcars seemed a very sensitive, but OK chap, who was too volatile to "get" what I describe above.
I would add, at the risk of incurring the OBN (apologies to non-Eye readers) that the way Lud phrased his question at the top of this discussion sums up what we're about.
There's an article in "Notes from a Small Island" where Bill Bryson is lost in admiration at the quality of debate in a House of Commons set at Granada Studios performed by youngish, and presumably part-time actors. I'd like to think we carry on that tradition.
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For reasons of which I will not go into, I would appreciate if discussion of robcars ended now please.
Thanks,
DD.
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