SWMBO passed her test over 20 years ago, and has never actually driven since!
Now she's looking to take refresher lessons. Having been out with her once myself she's really starting from scratch, not helped by the fact that she in quite petrified, and has zero confidence we thought some 2002 instruction a good idea.
She's keen on an automatic . . . "then I can concentrate on the road etc, not on the gears/clutch", but I seem to remember HJ and others have misgivings, as they may go out of control(?).
Auto would seem less complicated, I have to agree (I was happy with my previous auto car in town) I'd value your opinions.
Any instructors still browsing here?
Go on do your worst you lot, I can take it . . .
Stu.
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IMHO she should have the refresher lessons first and then decide, with her instructor's assistance, what car she is capable of managing.
The car size and general feel probably has as much bearing on things as the type of transmission. Plus whether it is for town use or longer journeys.
Having driven both manuals and automatics, I would not say that automatics are easier in the long run since after a time you don't think about changing gear, you just do it. In fact, most of the time I would be hard pressed to tell you which gear I am in.
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True when you say that after a while you do not think about changing gear in an auto, but after a while you do not think about doing it in a manual either.
It is just a question of confidence/time.
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Sorry, what I should have said was that "after a time you do not think about changing gear IN A MANUAL VEHICLE".
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> She's keen on an automatic . . . "then I can concentrate on
> the road etc, not on the gears/clutch", but I seem to
> remember HJ and others have misgivings, as they may go out of
> control(?).
>
> Auto would seem less complicated, I have to agree (I was
> happy with my previous auto car in town) I'd value your
> opinions.
I have always believed that you should learn the most complex, and then backoff in later time if you prefer.. In which case, learn and become confident in a manual, and then resort to an auto later if you are more comfortable. This is not to say that there are not issues switching Manual to Auto, but I believe that it is less difficult (distracting) than switching the other way.
I think the most improtant is how/where the teaching takes place. Drive around a car park/old airfield/whatever untilt he control is second nature and thenintroduce the issues of interacting with other road users.
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Go for the auto. Understand the principles of manual gears by all means (after all you can always select a gear in the auto) but why put yourself through all the panic and aggro? Manual may well become second nature eventually, but don't sweat it. Auto, Auto Auto Auto Auto Auto Auto OK?
Send your hate mail via this thread guys...
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Agree all the way - and my driving goes back to an Alvis Speed 20, via various oddities like a Nissan 200SX. I would never return to a manual gearbox - after all, who these days manually adjusts the ignition timing whilst driving? Or the mixture strength? Like the gearbox, these features were there simply to make up for some of the shortcomings of the internal combustion engine.
Anyway, you get better acceleration away from standstill with an automatic, unless you positively like smashing your clutch and gearbox - at least, so it appears from my Rover 216 auto.....
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I agree, but then I've never liked autos much and neither has my missus. The only exception was my first driving experience in Houston, where initially it was a blessing not to have to worry about gear changes. The novelty soon wore off, though.
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I agree. Where's the fun in changing gear? About as much fun as winding down windows manually, and making sure you've locked every door.
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Brill,
I have been driving for 38 years approx and when it is safe to do so, I like to drive quickly.
Even though our country is almost overwhelmed with the car, the motoring press continue to advocate the manual gear change. They correctly promote the view of fuel economy and sporty changes, but the gap has been reduced technologically in recent years.
On the other hand, a large proportion of our driving hours is spent waiting in jams, road works and roads with reduced speed limits. Clutches age harden over time, (rather, the spring diaphragms do) and the load on the foot goes up to operate them. Add to this summer weather and maybe the lack of an aircon' system, plus crowded roads, and driving becomes less than fun.
With this in mind and after driving 3000 miles in the US using a GM car with autobox, I purchased my first automatic car. The combination of an autobox combined with air conditioning and power steering is sublime. My previous 1989 Cavalier had none of these features.
The features of aircon and auto box help me unwind. Above all else my wife, who had no experience of an autobox and was very anxious, delights in driving with an auto transmission.
Try it!
Regards,
Julian
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Go auto, forget DIY gear change,and make sure its a far east brand for ease of use and reliability-small car,Yaris auto,just great.
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After a 1989 Cavalier almost everything would be an improvement.
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Absolutely with you Julian. I am on my second auto.Imperceptable changing, no missed or wrong gears(By other drivers!) Manuals are for pterodactyls.
regards
Simon
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Brill asks if ther are any instructors still browsing here. Well, I am and if I didn't have to have a manual to do my job I wouldn't touch one with a bargepole. We have had the technology to junk this outmoded system of driving for years and I don't know why the majority still insist on having it.
With no offence to anyone on the backroom, all of whom I am sure are excellent drivers with a high degree of car sympathy, in my experience most of those who claim to drive a manual because they like to take advantage of the high degree of control it gives them are the ones who torture their engines and transmissions through appalling misuse of the system anyway.
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Having driven autos in USA/Canada I would not rush to buy one. Lack of real power and the thought that at least 10% of the power is being soaked up by the torque convertor put me off. Never really feel that you know what's going on. Also increased fuel consumption. And they cost more to buy!
Newer switchable autos are probably the ideal compromise, but at a cost. I'll stick to my TDi/manual combo for now. New six speeders sound ideal!
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Tom,
I agree with you.
However, whilst auto is better, and I drive them, I think its better if you know how to drive a manual and are comfortable doing so, even if you choose not to.
M.
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Mark, I am genuinely interested to know why you think it's still better to go through learning in the manual. Is there a practical reason? In this example the lady has managed to get by without driving for 20 years, so presumably it's not a case of 'just in case' she ever needs to.
I accept that in general your theory of do the more difficult thing then settle for the easier option is probably a good one, but why should it apply here?
Rebecca
ooo-errr never really disagreed with anyone here before!
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If the car is mainly for town use I would say that an auto is the only sensible option in this instance. It will avoid any fear (or even fact) of being in the wrong gear at the wrong time and it is so much easier on what would otherwise be the clutch foot. Also, as was said, the elimination of a gear lever and clutch means there is less to learn to get used to.
If frequent out-of-town driving is likely, there is the loss of some power to be considered which can impact quite noticeably with some small-engined autos, especially older ones. Also fuel consumption can be higher with an auto, though again some more recent autos are as economical as a manual on the open road, or can even be better.
Someone has mentioned a Yaris auto. OK if ride comfort is of no concern! The Skoda Fabia is as well put together as a Yaris and is far more comfortable over the potholes. It is also a far nicer car all round in my view, except that it cannot compete with the pretty dashboard of the Yaris. The Fabia is offered as a 4-speed auto with the VW-sourced 1.4 16-valve petrol engine. I haven't driven the auto but the performance and economy figures are not too far adrift from the 1.4 8-valve Skoda-engined manual-gearbox Fabia which is a delight to drive if you are not in too much of a hurry.
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It is really quite easy going from manual to auto; obviously I have not done it the other way, but clearly there are new skills to learn, which might as well be learned straight off, in case at some time only a manual is available.
One point, though, is that if you buy second hand, for a class up perhaps, an automatic is less easy for the previous owner to have torn up.
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We bought an auto after pricing the clutch change on a second hand Volvo 850. I know an auto box repair would be pricey but less likely to fail with maintainance/ servicing done right. The combination of big car, big engine (2.5 20v) and an auto box is just fantastic. My wife and I would not go for anything else now. If the car was small engined and compact or with sporty potential I would go for manual, but most of the time driving is just getting from A to B in traffic, stop and start, so why have all that extra work to do ? Have a few test drives to try different engine and car combinations and the same in manual and then decide what 's best.
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If you like to look at it another way, if cars had always been fitted with auto gearboxes, and someone had suggested, just for "fun" that a drive "interupter
stick" could be fitted between the engine and the driving wheels, I feel sure that it would be met with derision. Sophisticated, electronically controlled engines, sending their power, through an equally sophisticated automatic gearbox are, in my opinion, the way cars should be made. Sadly, most manufacturers give the driver a device which mucks it all up.
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The one reason I can think of is that in the UK or Europe Manuals are a lot cheaper to hire... (in the US you will have a hard time making sure that you will get a manual and it will not cost any less to hire one)...
But for the person in question I can think of no other reason to learn how to use a manual in this day and age...
All that said I find it _fun_ to stir the stick on an open country lane in a sports car with the bonnet down... but as I get older I am quite sure that a modern slush box with F-1 type wheel paddels can do a better job of it than I can....
My American friends continue to be amazed at how easy I find it to switch from LHD to RHD with a manual shift as many of them try it at the hire car kiosk and run back to the desk to pay the extra for an automatic... for some reason I have always found that a manual 'feels' better on a RHD auto...
~R
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I've always thought that while cars have advanced enormously over the decades, there HAS to be a more enlightened way of making them move than stirring a strange stick and pumping a floor pedal!! Motorcycles also are years nehind in this regard, save of course for the modern scoots, but no red blooded male would want to be seen on one of THEM.
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>>Mark, I am genuinely interested to know why you think it's still better to go through learning in the manual. Is there a practical reason? In this examplethe lady has managed to get by without driving for 20 years, so presumably it's not a case of 'just in case' she ever needs to.
Several reasons really -
If she starts to drive, gets comfortabe driving and enjoys driving then I would guess that she will jump from no car usage to substantial car usage pretty quickly.
Given that, then the ability to drive whichever car is available, be it friends/rental/family without having to think "oh, I can only drive an auto" - life is likely to be simpler.
Secondly, in many of the things I've taught or been taught, its always worked better for me, as a teacher or pupil, to teach the "full" range of complication, then leaving someone to assess how much of that knowledge they choose to use, wish to use, or able to use.
In the end - freedom and convenience of being able to do both, even though she may prefer/choose to do only one.
>ooo-errr never really disagreed with anyone here before!
I am honoured to be your first.
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Hmmmm s'pose there could be something in it, but you're missing the obvious point that I am always in the right.
So Auto it is then, and we're all agreed.
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Tomo
It is easy to go either way.
At one time we had both a manual and an automatic at the same time and switched from one to the other on a daily basis with no problems.
In fact we had more trouble with my daughter's car which had the indicator stalk on the right. Several times I started to indicate that I was intending to turn by putting the windscreen wipers on!
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Brian W wrote:
> In fact we had more trouble with my daughter's car which had
> the indicator stalk on the right. Several times I started to
> indicate that I was intending to turn by putting the
> windscreen wipers on!
I do that with monotonous regularity ...
What p***es me off is that even between German cars they can be on opposite sides...
But most dangerous of all ... where is the bloody hooter when you need it? On the centre of the wheel? incorporated in the "spokes"? On the indicator switch?
Surely this is one item which should be standardised worldwide?
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ian (cape town) wrote :
> Surely this is one item which should be standardised worldwide?
That's the nice thing about standards. There are so many to choose from.
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My four penn'rth here, for what it's worth, has been said above. If Brills other half has a full manual licence, then I'd say do the refresher on a manual for all the obvious reasons.....useful to be able to drive another (manual) car on odd occasions, self confidence in knowing you can (drive a manual) if you need to, get a little feel for the mechanics of the car (car sympathy).
Then, after that, the choice between A&M is yours/hers. If economics don't enter the equasion I'd go for the auto. The only reason I would drive a manual is coz the're cheaper to buy and re-fuel, or if perchance the vehicle I wanted didn't come with an auto. option. I'm also with T Lucas, above, I've had both manual and auto Yaris's and the auto. is a little cracker.
KB
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