As an opening strike in my 2002 "Hate the Freelander" campaign, I was struck by the CbC Breakdown and in particular the "What's good" section.
Firstly given that the subject was a Freelander, then the section was longer than I expected. Actually, I was surpised it even had a section for good stuff. Then I started reading..........
>>Good styling.
Subjective, I don`t think so, but ok. To me it looks like "Sophisticated Styling by Fisher Price". And that on a day when Mr. F. Price was having a silly day. But still, what else were they going to do with all that coloured plastic and ex-Habitat cloth.
>>Comfortable.
No it isn't. Its ok around town, but on high-speed [sic] journeys you get a numb-bum and off road you get thrown all over the place. The gear stick is bendy, the sun visors tacky and wobbly, the window buttons difficult to reach, the cup holder is ridiculous, the tyre noisy and un-grippy, and the stero drowned out by the various rattles.
At least, I assume that the ridiculous bit of sticky-out green pastic belt on the door pocket s a cup holder. Goodness knows what else you'd do with it.
The sunroof makes more windnoise than Blazing Saddles, assuming that it hasn't broken for the third time and therefore stuck half-open, or half closed if you're a salesman trying to see some good in it.
>>Likeable.
Speechless. It bloody isn't.
>>Plenty of room for four or five passengers. Kids enjoy the high back seat.
Adults less so due to thumping their head on the roof and having their legs cramped. And if you're carrying 5 people, or 4 for that matter, you're not going to be carrying much in the way of luggage.
>>Proper three-point centre belt.
I'll concede that.
>>Useful underfloor lockable cubby-safe.
Which you could get into with an old toothbrush. Its like waving a flag which says "Good stuff in car which you can get easily".
The hill descent control works well.
No it doesn't, it really, really doesn't. You might as ell put it in gear, leave the handbrak half on, leave the car on tickover and wander off for a cup of coffee. Assuming, of course, that you weren't carrying your own coffee, since if you were the container would have been smashed around the inside of the car, since there is no where to put such a thing, and unless chomping broken glass is to your liking you'd be better off with the little yellow button (Actually, I'm exaggerating, you'd be better with the mouthful of broken flask.
I was sitting in one of these at the local dealer talking to the salesman at whe weekend, bemoaning the little yellow button and the guy said that I'd appreciate it if I was somewhere extreme - I was in the Andes, you're not going to get more extreme than that and I still hated it.
Its obviously to replace the low-ratio, you'd be better of throwing a rope and anchor out the window, 'cept I'm not sure a Freelander is powerful enough to carry an anchor.
>>The more you drive it the more you like it.
May you be forgiven, there's no way you're going to Heaven coming up with a line like that.
And as for the four wheel drive, "wheel" would be the only applicable word from that phrase.
Sod all ground clearance, naff all grip, not enough power to pull itself out of, over or up something, gets stuck in anything vaguely soft, skips sideways on anything crumbly and gets stuck on anything over the height of a particularly short rabbit.
M.
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Apart from that Mrs Lincoln, how was the Play?
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> Apart from that Mrs Lincoln, how was the Play?
I didn't like the ending.
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Just out of curiosity, what is the "hill descent control" and how is it supposed to work - was a low gear too much like everybody else?
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Tomo wrote:
>
> Just out of curiosity, what is the "hill descent control" and
> how is it supposed to work - was a low gear too much like
> everybody else?
Tomo,
Non-techie explanation follows (the only kind I can do)
When coming down a nasty slope, especially a loose or muddy slope, it is very easy to lose control. I mean the type of slope that you would be pushing your luck to get up in the first place.
Actually this is another reason the HDC is pointless since the Freelander would never get up the hill in the first place to worry about getting down.
Nonetheless, common wisdom says that the way to do this, either forwards or backwards, it to engage four-wheel driver, low ratio, put it in gear and let it roll down hill without touching brakes or throttle and only using the steering.
The 4WD should be enough to keep control and if you don't touch the brakes it won't skid.
They didn't put low ratio on the Freelander. I guess they gouldn't get the right coloured plastic. So they put on the patented, and strangely others are licensing it, HDC or Hill Descent Control.
Essentially what that does is allow the car to run downhill on tickover, but since it neither has the low ratio or sufficient engine braking, it uses the brakes to hold the vehicle at a slow speed, using the same logic as ABS to prevent any skidding or locking.
It doesn't work because;
a) The thing slides all over the goddamn place
b) It is *sooo* slow and the ignominy of being over-taken by a speeding slug is unbearable.
Hope that helps,
Mark.
p.s. Did I mention that I don't like the Freelander ?
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Mark,
Thanks for the information, which makes things quite clear (in contrast to a published report I once read!)
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Last message to Mark somehow lost
"Best regards,
Tomo"
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sounds like the Marmite effect to me.
M.
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Reposted as it was in the off topic thread that is now off the main page just in case you missed it Mark (BTW I also voted it the worst car of the year)
Mark,
It should gladden your heart that laast week I was taking part in the Xmas Bird Count here On Nantucket Island and I was transporting some of the bird watchers to a refuge on Great Point (5 miles in low range with 10 to 12 psi tyres) in my 1989 Range rover... no problems as you would expect... but just when we hit the soft deep sand there was a brand new freelander stuck up it's hubs... in front of it was another freelander also sunk deep in the sand... on board were models and photographers to shoot print adverts for the US market... and a Land rover USA exec.... I pulled then all out with out any problems but the Exec was very red faced... they had dropped air presure to about 17 psi... I told them to try 12... they got stuck again but down at an unsafe 8psi they could get through the soft sand but one of them promptly broke the bead on two of his tyres on the first bump.... I used an inflatable tread strap and my portable conpressor to reseat them and sent them to another beach with harder sand... the exec kindly gave me a note good for a free major service on my RR for my help
the freelander is totaly useless for the soft sand conditions we have in many places on this island...
It looks like a machine for the school run crowd... it sure is not a proper off roader and it makes me rather mad to see them trading on the land rover good name to foster this bas&*%d child on the world market.
~R
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Slightly off-topic and you know how I hate that, but........
>I was taking part in the Xmas Bird Count here On Nantucket Island
Randolph,
two questions;
1) How ?
What stops the bird you've counted on the tree flying to another tree and getting counted by someone else as well ? Or alternatively failing to get counted by anyone ?
2) Why ?
Mark.
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By sheer co-incidence, I was taking part in the Xmas Bird Count at the dining room table.
I counted 1 (one) turkey.
I was hoping for the partridge in a pear tree, but it didn't materialise.
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Right now, in a building near Solihull, four or five big blokes with balaclave's and baseball bats are planning a trip to Rio... :)
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> Right now, in a building near Solihull, four or five big blokes with balaclave's and baseball bats are planning a trip to Rio... :)
Well, if they come after me in a Freelander, imagine my concern.
At the very least they will find out that the Air Conditioning is total rubbish and I doubt if it can cope with a summer in the UK, never mind a real summer.
So then they'll have to open the windows but the buttons are a sod to reach when you're driving along, so they'll probably go for the sun-roof which usually doesn't work. And on the off-chance they can find the buttons and they work long enough to open, they'll then find that the sort of speed a Freelander is capable of is not even sufficient to generate a draft in the car.
Although, if they take it off road they'll be an increase in wind and windnoise .
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You honestly thought I was being serious?
You couldn't get four big blokes in a Freelander...
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> You honestly thought I was being serious?
No. Did you think I was ? Except about the Freelander, I am always serious about that.
> You couldn't get four big blokes in a Freelander...
Yeah, you could with a gun, although I admit it would be easier to convince four little blokes.
I want to know, seriously, I really do...
Does anyone in here own a Freelander ?
If so...
1) Why did you buy it ?
2) What do you think of it ?
3) Would you buy another one ?
Mark.
p.s. No, LAC, yours is a Lada, that's quite different.
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Mark
Its because we Landy owner/drivers like them like that. Adrenalin runs high when you go out in the vehicle wondering what bits will next drop off and like a F 16 pilot in Alfganistan whether you can achieve your mission in one piece. When you do so WOW what a high. Never happier when up to the axles in mud glorious mud - check the pages of any Landy Mag and they are there. Pages and pages of em bogged down being winched out. Four wheel drive. Puff. They keep you out of mischief, spending hours pulling bits off and then replacing them, hell of a kick when they start again.
Ask D.W. who is putting one back on the road. The Freelander follows on a tradition of C~#p. Who wants a semi reliable Fords, Golf etc etc. We Landy owners are not ready for the Zimmer frame yet so there.
Holy Moses this sites getting to me, is this a rant coming on. Must check with the Norton Anti-Virus.
Rgds
DVD OOooOOOO (Tongue in cheek)
PS You can always tell a landyman at the Bar - he's the one with only moths in his wallet.
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Hi All
I must have the only reliable Landy in the world if you go by this thread. I own a 1979 Series 111. Diesel. It starts every time has not let me down in the three years since I bought it. It is used for towing,sometimes long distances, off road,a builders truck, a refuse cart,etc etc etc.
I spend some time on the spanners with her, (definitely a she) but the same applies to any old vehicle.
Choice between the Landy and the missus, 'er indoors knows the answer,
Rant over back to work
PS Also got a very nice 1974 genuine station wagon, but it is not yet finished.
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Dwight Van-Driver wrote:
>
> Mark
>
> Its because we Landy owner/drivers like them like that.
But this is my point. A real Landrover may or may not be unreliable. It may or may not actually leave the drive (David).
But when it does go, and when it does work, its good, possibly even very good, at what it does.
THe Freelander isn't.
I don't really know what it is supposed to do as a car.
Clearly as goods to be sold it is supposed to be fashionable, appeal to a certain mind-set, and bum off the name of the real ones.
But, let us forget the unreliability for a minute. Let us even ignore the fact that bits fall off.
It could have too purposes or environments..
1) off-road
No ground clearance, no low ration, little wheels, un-grippy tyres, no grab-handles, no safe storage space to stop stuff flying around, no constant 4WD, no locking hubs, unsupportive seats, unable to take the abuse.
Ok then, let us assume it is not supposed to go off-road, it is supposed to go on-road but look, fashionably, like an off-roader.
2) on-road
tyre noice, noisy engine, under-powered engine, unable to tow anything larger than another Freelander (which is handy), uncomfortable for long drives, insufficient luggage space, uncomfortable for large adults in the back, unsupportive seats giving back issues, insufficient places to stick stuff, VERY large blind spots which make it irritating to park, unpleasant gear-change, indecisive switching gear.
Ok then, let us assume that it is not supposed to go on-road either.
Clearly it is supposed to.......ummmm....uhhhhhh...oh.
So even if it worked all the time, which it doesn't, it'd still be no good to man nor beast.
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Not much from Solihul in this years Dakar,wonder why?
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they couldn't get up the slip road onto the motorway
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Mark hints at the difference between a Freelander and a Series Land Rover.
The Freelander is a car with off-road styling and a degree of off-road ability. They can't be that bad Mark, two safely arrived at school this morning in conditions of mild drizzle on tarmac. One even parked with two wheels on the verge and got off again.
The old Series Land Rovers are completely different. They are a cross between a commercial vehicle and a tractor. They can be kept going for ever (50yrs+) with basic spanner work and welding from time to time. There is another serious point that you are alluding to. They really don't have to be driven anywhere, in fact they don't need to be finished.
The statement "I'm halfway through doing up a Series II" will convey a whole world of information and feelings to those who have been there or who are in the same position. In fact to finish them is to negate the reason for owing one.....Panels in the shed, chassis in the garden, engine on the patio, bits in the loft, bits in the dining room (?). Above all that ongoing excuse year in year out..."I'm just popping out to the workshop to change the whatsit on the old Land Rover.
Happy hours/days/years.
David
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>The Freelander is a car with off-road styling and a degree of off-road ability.
No more than any saloon car.
>One even parked with two wheels on the verge and got off again.
And I've got 10 quid says that the wheels were spinning on the grass.
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Mark
Don't beat about the bush, do you like the Freelander yes or no? :-)
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> Don't beat about the bush, do you like the Freelander yes or no? :-)
HAH !!
I want to find someone who *does* like it and ask why.
;-)
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... but I think they're all too scared to come out and play after all that's gone before.
(no I don't own one).
Stu.
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Maybe I need to get another one. The comments came from a 1,000 mile test of the original Rover engined diesel version. The hdc did work in a Northumberland forest. I got it bogged down to its diffs in a black hole, then got it to drive out again. My (then much smaller) daughter did like the high centre rear seat because she could see out. It didn't drive as well on roads as the Honda CRV. But I did kinda warm to the thing. My neighbour has just gone and bought an all singing all dancing 2.5 KV6 version. Maybe the extra power would solve some of Mark's problems. But the truth is the Freeloader was never intended to do the sort of stuff people expect from LandRovers, LandCruisers and Jeeps. It's a shopping, school-run car with enough four wheel drive to get you through a light covering of snow.
HJ
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The 2.5 V6 should be very much better. However, the 4WD wasn't very good. I had some main issues that spring to mind -
-It is perhaps too light, since it can spin its wheels, although gearing and tyres obviously affect that
-When it had sufficient grip it frequently stalled which I guess would be solved by the larger engine
-It didn't ever seem to do a very good job or working out the power distribution to the wheels - it didn't seem to balance the wheels as you might expect.
-It still has no low-ratio
I'm sure it wasn't just the one example though, since there were several around my friends in Chile and they all seemed the same.
The truth is, as you say, it isn't an off-roader. I guess the most likely effect of the V6 is to make it an adequate, improved, on-roader.
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Now Mark,
Slowly . . . breathe . . . iiiiiiiiiin and oooooooout.
I think you need some therapy old chap. (Someone here may be able to reccommend one ;o)
Necesitas un psiquiatra . . . ¡pero ya!
Stu.
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El Stu,
I don't need the shrink, I simply need to have the world accept and acknowledge that the Freelander is an attrocious use of the name Landrover.
I would like it to the MG Maestro debacle.
Don Marco (El Tranquilo)
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actually a well sorted mg meastro was a great car (efi version not the stupid carb version)
freelanders are crap, but so are frontera's and the like, its marketing over everything else
same way they can reshape a few body panels, stick an x-type badge on it, and sell a 4wd mondeo as a jag
if you want real off road ability there is nowt to beat a suzuki jimny for ace ability for bog all money
yea grad trainees used to be able to "borrow" cars from solihul to "test" them when i worked there, wonder if that still happens?
fking speed bumps and skool run mums, wot can i say
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crazed idiot wrote:
>
> actually a well sorted mg meastro was a great car (efi
> version not the stupid carb version)
I had a white Montego EFI. It was fun but it had "The Voice".
I can *still* hear that voice.
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>>Mrs. Lincoln wrote:
Ooops.
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Mark this Link should explain all
www.audubon.org/bird/cbc/
but as for me... Well I Have a girl friend who is twitcher and she let me know I was taking her and 3 others to the end of the point... me after I delt with the Freelanders and got them out there I setteled down to reading a good book in the warmth of the RR And a nice snack while they spent the morning freezing their ... well you get the idea... I understand bird watchers only a bit better than I do Ice fishermen!
Author: Mark (Brazil) (---.intelignet.com.br)
Date: 08-01-02 12:12
Slightly off-topic and you know how I hate that, but........
>I was taking part in the Xmas Bird Count here On Nantucket Island
Randolph,
two questions;
1) How ?
What stops the bird you've counted on the tree flying to another tree and getting counted by someone else as well ? Or alternatively failing to get counted by anyone ?
2) Why ?
Mark.
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Strangely enough, Martyn BRM recommended a Jimny to me recently and I had a look and thought them to be remarkable VFM. You can get a brand new UK supplied one from a Suzy dealer for less than £8200 OTR. For a pretty capable off roader and half decent on roader, + 3yr warranty and quite good spec, it's hard to beat. Compare that to any other 4X4 (including a Freelander). At the risk of mentioning the Police, Gloucester Police had one on trial for six months for use by one of their rural beat officers and as a result, has just ordered another six of them. Suzuki say a diesel may be on its way. Sounds good to me. A pint sized version of DW's favourite Landy.
PS. Before anyone asks - No I'm not a hairdresser.
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Isn't it a bit little, or am I confusing which one it is ?
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little but great off road, and acts as a great town car also
more space than the average supermini
only thing missing is abs imho
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Mark, Length 3625mm. Width 1600mm. Height 1705mm. 1298cc, DOHC- 16valve, 80bhp. Combined mpg 36.2. Hi/Lo ratio box - manual selection of low ratios up to 62 mph. Ladder chassis, coil suspension. 190mm ground clearance. front departure angle - 42degrees, rear - 46degrees. Wading depth 400-500mm. PAS, Twin bags, Elec mirrors and windows, C/Locking. Steel wheels, 205/70/R15 Bridgestone mixed terrain tyres. Low insurance group 7.
Having said that, yes it is a bit small, great as a second/runabout/fun/bad weather motor, but no good for a family. Given depreciation figures - on the basis that it only costs £8000 in the first place, it's not going to lose as much as it's dearer counterparts over 3 years. 50% loss of an £8000 car is a lot less than 50% of something much dearer and cheaper to maintain than most others.
Please form an orderly queue to place your orders - no pushing and shoving!
Regards, KB
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I have to confess, as a hardened Land Rover fan (Series 3 V8) that I once considered buying a Freelander. It was the commercial version, looked very smart, lots of accessories (chequer plate floor, CD multichanger), comfortable to drive and not likely to be ruined by muddy dogs. Nice colour as well. Then I realised that the price on the windscreen excluded VAT. I couldn't really afford it anyway, but an extra 17.5% on top killed the deal.
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VAT, tell me about it Richard.
Few years ago wanted a LR that would stand longer distances/faster (?) road use than the S.IIa we had at the time.
Eventually was arranging a deal on a mint 90 2.5 N/A Diesel Truck Cab with PAS. Haggling around £5K. As we neared the final price the guy (dealer) says "of course you have allowed for the VAT on top"? No I hadn't! I think we ended up splitting it down the middle...I paid £500 and he stood £375 (remember he was a dealer).
With new Bridgestone mixed use tyres and the PAS it was the most "chuckable" LR I've driven.
David
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Try this month top gear magazine for a pretty fair damming of the V6 freelander. Slow and only 16 mpg. I still think the TD4 version is probably OK.
Andrew Smith
"Your mother was a dentist and your father smelt of mouthwash"
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