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I was of the understanding as well that Tacho evidence alone was not enough to get a ban, It could only support other evidence. As for the 40 thing, I got done on the A33 between Reading and Basingstoke about 10 years ago and got 5 points and £150 fine, Hence I always do 40 on a single carrigeway, sorry if your one of the ones following, but I do not intend on getting another fine like that, no matter how out dated the laws are.
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I think the drivers should get signs made for the back, as most car drivers don't know, a bit like the FAIR PLAY ON FUEL ones.
With a bit of luck, it might get the laws changed. I presume these new rules will not affect the evr-increasing number of foreign trucks and drivers who come here free from crippling tax and beurocracy and undercut the UK ones?
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I can only guess....but in all likelyhood there was open season on that road where VoSA and the Police were pulling trucks and checking tachos and found that a large proportion were exceeding the speed limit that had been set, possibily linked to an increased number of collisions involving LGVs so the authorities decided to act....it would be nice to know more of the specifics of the reasoning/gathering of evidence etc.
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For the criminal offence of speeding then corroboration is required. There is non just looking at a Tacho chart so court proceedings for speeding cannot be taken.
It looks as if the Traffic Commissioners, who still have an interest in the D/Licence of HGV/PSV field are using Section 115 Road Traffic Act 1988 to suspend the Licence if the drivers conduct is such as to make him unfit to hold such a licence and whilst suspended shall have no effect.
Presumably they are taking the evidence from the speeding shown on the Tachograph Chart in conjunction with the area involved and deeming this to make the driver unfit.
DVD
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Just to clarify is this a blanket ban on vehicles exceeding a certain weight or are they targetting specific drivers/vehilces ?
"criminal offence" - ??
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culina drivers tacho are checked and you are not allowed over 40mph till you reach the motorway they know how long it takes to get to motorway. try driving along during the night when the ferries have kicked off
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lifes a bitch
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If the 40 mph single-carriageway speed linit for LGVs was rigidly enforced it would be likely to cause MORE accidents.
Why? Because more car and van drivers would overtake these slower moving lorries, leading to more head-on collisions. Such accidents would be likely to outweigh any reduction in LGV crashes caused by reduced speeds.
When I was an HGV driver too may years ago to tell on here, 50 mph seemed to be the 'de-facto' limit, even if the law was 40. The same seems to be the case today. The legal single-carriageway limit for LGV's should be raised to 50 mph and rigidly enforced.
Also the speed limits for light vans and trucks up to 3.5 tonnes MPW should be brought into line with those for cars.
Cheers, Sofa Spud
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No, SS. All accidents are caused by speed. There is no other cause. All we need to do to stop accidents is to slow people down. Preferably to a standstill. Then there will be no accidents. You will conform.
And the weather has been uniformly better these last 8 years, btw.
;-)
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No, SS. All accidents are caused by speed. There is no other cause. All we need to do to stop accidents is to slow people down. Preferably to a standstill. Then there will be no accidents. You will conform. And the weather has been uniformly better these last 8 years, btw. ;-)
Sorry, But thats not true, we all know 100% of accidents can be avoided if we all remember to wear our Hi Viz jackets and Hard Hats. ;o)
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and don't forget the steel toecapped boots.
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Also human error and mechanical breakdowns are a thing of the past.
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Yes its the area around Market Drayton and Whitchurch. The ministry have not used any other method than just looking at tachos. The ministry doing there random inspections, noticed that the trucks were getting to the motorways to quickly so checked more drivers for this specific data. Once they found out the problem at the big company, already mentioned here,they started to check all the others in the area. There has not been an increase in R.T.C`s. in the area involving HGV`s.
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I guess they know that if you leave somewhere like Culina or Gro-Continental you have at least 30 minutes worth of driving before you get to a dual carriageway or motorway so if they are doing more than 40 they are breaking the law.
I must say though that i haven't read anything about it in the shropshire star or even heard about it as i know quite a few people who work in the haulage trade round the area.
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It looks as if the Traffic Commissioners, who still have an interest in the D/Licence of HGV/PSV field are using Section 115 Road Traffic Act 1988 to suspend the Licence if the drivers conduct is such as to make him unfit to hold such a licence and whilst suspended shall have no effect.
Seriously, though, this concerns me. It also illustrates the need to take care when creating a power for HMG or it agents.
They may or may not be right to ban the drivers in these circumstances. I'm not interested in debating that (apologies to anyone who is!). This concern is with regard to the process.
The point is that the TCs seemingly have a general power over the licence holder in addition to specific powers such as prosecution for speeding. Now, that specific power is subject to certain checks and balances; ex hypothesi these are in order to ensure that it is applied properly; one of those is (it seems) to require corroboration of the speed, time, place etc and not to rely only on the tacho evidence. Presumably there is a good reason for this. If not, then this requirement should be looked at.
Here, the general power is being used in the precise circumstance for which the specific power is intended, but where the requirements for exercise of the specific power are not met. Nevertheless, the general power is being invoked successfully.
If it is "right" to be able to punish these drivers, why can the specific power not be used?
Or, to put it the other way around, when the specific power was drawn up, consideration was given to the circumstances in which it is right and proper to punish for this offence and the evidence that is required, and it seems that those circumstances are not met. Therefore, how can it be right to use a general power to over-rule that?
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That post P remainds me of a conversation between two people:
Your remind me of a man.
What man?
The man with power.
What power?
The power of Whodoo
Whoodoo?
You do
What?
remind me of a man
What man? .... as infinitum.
Firstly we do not the full ins and outs of this so called enforcement in suspending HGV DL's to reach a conclusive and accurate opinion.What I can say from personal knowledge is that the TC are most keen not to allow drivers to become even a possible danger. They are right, in our own interests to do so.
Once dealt with a single PSV accident where driver ran off the road into a hedge. When interviewed hummed and haard and eventually made reference to possible black out. Spoke to TC the next day about this and wham they suspended PSV Licence forthwith. DVLA, on the other hand took ages to convene medical during which time driver retained his Part III Licence to drive. In the end driver was found fit and PSV re-installed. Confirmed what was thought that driver had nodded at the wheel but we could not prove.
Now if they had not suspended the Licence and driver did have a black out again this time with more severe consequences what of TC.?
Re the Tachographs, an extremely accurate device, the chart from which can show past history most clearly. Now I doubt that on a single chart one item of speed detected that this would incur the wrath of VOSA but possibly so from other instances on the chart and past charts in the working week.
At the end of the day a HGV driver doing his rounds responsibly will have nothing to fear and will build up no history on his chart.
DVD
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It seems that although a prosecution for speeding can't be brought about by tacho readouts, Vosa can 'interview' a driver and suspend his Hgv licence if they think that his tacho records show a consistent speeding history. Knowing Vosa as I do, there's a good chance that if one company and it's drivers are involved, other issues apart from the speeding will be being investigated.
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That post P remainds me of a conversation between two people:
Sorry DVD, it wasn't one of my most coherent posts.
(Actually, some would say it was, but there you have it.)
I do agree that if a PSV or HGV driver gets it wrong big time then the effect is rather more serious, so more care does need to be taken. I don't think I suggested otherwise, but if I did...
You story is instructive, but the lesson that I drew was that DVLA needed to sort themselves out and get a grip. The problem highlighted in that tale is DVLA's inaction; hence the solution is to give them a serious kick and sort things out. It can be done; it is a managerial issue.
Too often, the solution is the application or the introduction of another power, rather than fixing the actual problem. Eventually, the system becomes so complex that no-one really understands it and injustices can arise. But, on the other hand, more people are employed so at least the unemployment rate drops.
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