Price of Diesel - Dave
In last week's Saturday telegraph, HJ said that diesel was relatively expensive at the moment due to the fact that it is similar to domestic heating oil, which always goes up in price in the winter due to increased demand.

So just how similar are diesel and domestic heating oil? :-)
Re: Price of Diesel - Derek
Virtually identical, I think, except that 'gas oil' for heating, etc. is dyed to identify it from road fuel. I don't know if there are other additives for vehicle use, but I thought that gas oil could be used in diesel engines, such as fork lift trucks.

I believe that diesel fuel is cheaper to produce than petrol. If HJ is right, then European prices for diesel should also be higher, but then the tax rules might be different.
Re: Price of Diesel - humpy
Somebody mentioned to me that the price of petrol was so low due to the fact there are large reserves of aviation fuel that are unused at the moment after Sept 11th. I'm no petrochemical specialist but I think that you can distill aviation fuel further to get petrol or alter it somehow whereas diesel is heavier than aviation fuel, further up the distillation ladder if you like. Therefore the price of petrol is lower and diesel stays where it is. Does that make sense? Any other opinions?
Re: Price of Diesel - Darcy Kitchin
Don't know about the other way round, but our oil-fired Aga and CH boiler worked a treat on diesel. This was Xmas eve 1998; we were expecting a houseful the following day and it was Friday, 6:00. I had stupidly forgotten to dip the tank the previous week and the oil had run out. The fireplace was too small to barbecue the turkey and the house was freezing. Brimmed the XM with 80 litres diesel and transferred it to the oil tank with one of those electric drill pumps. Then went back and did it again. Hazardous and very expensive I know but I was desparate.
Re: Price of Diesel - Chad R
" diesel is heavier than aviation fuel, further up the distillation ladder if you like"

If its further up the distillation ladder would it not be lighter ?

I always thought that aviation fuel is pretty much the same a kerosene - which once futher distilled will produce petrol or similar.

Chad.R
Re: Price of Diesel - AFM
Class D heating oil is a distillate fuel, generally known as gas oil or 35 second fuel, and is supplied for use in domestic and commercial heating installations in larger atomizing burners. This is used as the ?base? for the manufacture of diesel, which is therefore subject to seasonal price variations. A diesel engine will run on this. It doesn't have the additives which oil intended for diesel engines has. Excise duty should be paid if the engine is used on a public road. The oil supplied for heating is dyed and has chemical markers in it.
Re: Price of Diesel - Dave
What do the additives in diesel, which differentiate it from Class D heating oil, actually do?

Also, the heating oil that is supplied to me is clear and colourless.
Re: Price of Diesel - Moosh
Quote;

"the heating oil that is supplied to me is clear and colourless".

This would be 28sec kerosene. It is not dyed because its not commonly used in a road vehicle.
Re: Price of Diesel - mike
all very interesting, but domestic heating oil is actually cheaper than it was in the summer, i'd go for the "rip 'em off till some ome complains" theory of pricing.
Re: Price of Diesel - Tony
Your diesel car will run on heating oil but it is illegal to run it on the road also because of the lack of lubricity it will kill your pump after a time.
28 second and 35 second? - ian (cape town)
Heating oil is an alien concept to me.
What do the 28 and 35 represent?
Re: 28 second and 35 second? - Moosh
It think its the viscosity or thickness of the fuel.

One amount fuel taking 7 more seconds to strain through a given apparture than the other?
Re: Price of Diesel - Moosh
Anybody tried making diesel?

The following site claims to give you the formula for £35.

www.ukmd.co.uk/Mecatech/

"Producing diesel fuel in your own home garage or workshop will instantly save you over 40% of pump prices!"

I wonder if this fuel is kerosene with additives to make it into diesel.

Is it a scam?
Re: Price of Diesel - Mark (Brazil)
Moosh,

There are many ways of creating or using different fuels.

The inescapable fact is that if you use it in a road-going vehicle then, by law, you must pay the relevant taxes. If you do this, then it is not an economic solution.

The judgement involves whether or not you will be caught (not likely, but possible) and if you are caught will the penalty out-weigh the benefits (Big time, they will take the mileage of your vehicle, assume it has been using tax-unpaid fuel since you bought the vehicle, and charge you).

My one piece of advice would be that you can play hell with the Income Tax people, but only a fool messes with Customs and Excise.

You make your decision, take your chances, and don't bitch if [when?] you are caught.

Mark.
Re: Price of Diesel - Moosh
I agree with you Mark!

We must assume that when this fuel is made excise duty then has to be paid on it.

Surely this would wipe out the claimed 40% saving.

In other words this company is not telling the whole truth and is just a scam to get £35.

Maybe the site is trying to appeal to the motorist who will use it without paying the duty because the resulting fuel it is not dyed red and harder for C&E to detect?
Re: Price of Diesel - steve paterson
Mark (Brazil) says that if one sticks to the law, fuel tax is inescapable. What about electric vehicles - milk floats etc. Electric bikes (mopeds) are becoming popular. Are they all breaking the law? If I built an electrically propelled car and recharged it from my domestic electricity supply, would HM customs & excise be interested?
Re: Price of Diesel - JohnD
I buy most of my diesel fuel in France or Belgium. As the world market price of oil has fallen from around 32$ to less than 19$, so the diesel price on the Continent has correspondingly fallen from 5.4FF to 4.5FF per litre. Here, we have seen a fall of around 3p per litre. Also in France the supermarkets invariably charge less than the forecourts, whereas in the UK there are is no differance. Are we being ripped-off?
Re: Price of Diesel - Pete Williams
I can't wait until the summer when the price of diesel will plummet.......or not !

Some of my German colleagues have indicated on more than one occasion that they regularly fill up with cheap cooking oil. I guess that it may be mixed with diesel perhaps. We have a meeting there end of Feb so I hope to ask more.

I also remember during study years that a fellow third year did much work on a benchtop diesel engine and vegetable oil, this was back in the early 80s, but it was recognised then that this would run a diesel engine OK. I am sure we have all read about vegetable oil alternatives. Any comments ? Incidentally we've just bought a Galaxy diesel but I won't be fillling up with Crisp'N'Dry.
Re: Price of Diesel - Moosh
I knew of a vintage peugeot 305D being fueled by Kerosene and cooking oil to lubricate the pump.
Seemed to run ok, though a bit down on power.

One drawback, it smelt like a chip shop and was quite illegal.
Re: Price of Diesel - ian (cape town)
A few thoughts on this.
Some local students went around collecting all the used oil from restaurants, to do a project on the use of cooking oil in cars.
Apparently their biggest problem was convincing the restauranteurs that they were really students, and NOT health inspectors!
(I can imagine the conversation: "So you are saying you shove this oil into a car, do you?")
Also, I recall local farmers being encouraged to plant 10% of their arable land with sunflowers, as the oil produced could be used as a substitute for Diesel in their tractors.
And didn't busses experiment with oil seed rape about a decade ago?
Re: Price of Diesel - alvin booth
28 or 35 second oil is as stated previously the time a measured amount goes through a certain sized aperture.
Its called the Redwood scale and in the trade it would be referred to as say 35seconds on the redwood scale.
Much heavier oil than this can be used. On one of our boiler houses we used 200 sec oil. This has to be stored in heated tanks usually by hot water or steam coils from the boilers with electric immersion heaters as backup.
The supply line from the tank to the boiler also has trace heating to keep it fluid and often another heater just before the burner.
Although I never saw it there also used to be a 3000 sec oil for some applications and apparently was virtually solid. I think it went out of use some 15 years ago.
The 35 sec oil was also referred to as gas oil and I believe it was identical to diesel fuel. All the domestic oil boilers I have seen are 28sec and is more like paraffin and would not have the lubricating properties needed for a car injection pump.
Alvin
Re: Price of Diesel - Moosh
3000 sec oil must be like bitumen .....has to be heated to make it liquid.
Re: Price of Diesel - Brian
Derek
The tax rules are different.
In the UK petrol and diesel are taxed at virtually the same rate, whereas in France and most other Continental countries the tax on diesel is far lower.
The ex-refinery cost of both petrol and diesel is about 16p/litre. The garage makes about 4p. Everything else is tax.
Re: Price of Diesel - Moosh
So its about 45p excise duty and 12p vat.
Re: Price of Diesel - Brian
Moosh
That's about right, I haven't got the exact current figures to hand, but around 75 to 80 percent of the UK price is tax.
In fact, the tax element in the UK is about the same as the retail price of diesel in France.