I'm not saying that we should have PAS, but the reason its on most small cars now is the same reason its on larger cars - the wheel/tyre combination makes it too heavy to steer without PAS.
I'm not saying don't have PAS, but if we had smaller wheels and narrower and taller tyres, the ride of each car would be improved dramatically, without impairing the handling at UK legal speeds. At the same time, the level of assistance required would be less, which would mean smaller pumps, less engergy loss and better economy. - black magic Eh!
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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>>I can remember having to use both hands on the same side of the steering wheel and using considerable force to turn the thing with a full load.
'Cos it's a wheel, it shouldn't have made any difference which side of the wheel your hands were on.
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You cant get the 'witch stiring her cauldron' turing effect with hands on both sides of the wheel, nor the full power of both arms and body.
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both arms, and body rather.
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I'd assume that the reason why having both arms on the same side would help is becuase you were pulling that side of the wheel towards yourself?
Much easier than pushing away. (Combination of stronger muscles and use of body weight I think.)
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my L reg astra has no power steering its a pig to park but power steering can increase fuel consumption by 5 percent
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But the wheel on a truck is probably flat, so body weight doesn't help.
The witch uses two hands in the same place to stir her cauldron as her wooden spoon only has one handle.
Is it really easier to pull than to push? Somehow I doubt it. As when pulling, you rely on the friction on the seat to keep you in place. When pushing, you are pushing against the back of the seat, so are likely to be able to apply more force.
Just a thought.
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It is easier to pull than push, apparently.
Something to do with our physical geometry. When pulling you can use your own weight, maybe.
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It is easier to pull than push, apparently. Something to do with our physical geometry. When pulling you can use your own weight, maybe.
I always thought it was due to the fact that there are two sets of muscles at each joint, one to extend the joint, one to contract, the contracting muscles are stronger (at least in the case of the elbow joint, I think)
Anyway, I'm going from experience rather than logic. My fAthers aforementioned VW LT28 had a flat steering wheel, and when low speed manoeuvering, you could get more purchase on the wheel by putting both hands on one side and pulling towards your stomach.
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>>But the wheel on a truck is probably flat, so body weight doesn't help.
If you're on one side of the wheel, be that pulling or pushing, you are using your whole body, including its weight, to go in one direction.
A hand either side means that you are using one body to apply force in two opposite directions without much benefit from being able to swing your weight, although it would still have some effect as a stationary force, I guess.
On the other hand, I don't believe that we are spending timwe discussing something like this. Must be Friday.
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When I were a lad, we lived in a cave and had to catch our breakfast each morning on foot, using a big stick.
Then they invented the wheel.
Things have never been the same since.
I'd rather be a wimp with PAS than otherwise.
Splodgeface
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I used to have a 1946 Rover 16 in BRG. Looked lovely. Handled like a pig full of bran about to give birth to piglets. I have the muscles on my shoulders still from parking it:-)
I have now a 1.6 Fiesta with power steering and drive SWMBO's Peugeot 106 1.4 diesel without it. No question but the Peugeot with heavy engine needs pas when parking - and it is horrible when parking. Fine when under way.
Fiesta + power steering = joy in car parks and open road.
I admit it: I'm a wimp who does 40 pressups and runs 3 miles - 5 days a week...
madf
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Cave??!! Cave??!! We used t'dream of cave....
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A long time ago I was a lorry driver (late 70's). Most of the lorries had power steering even then, but I remember Bedford TK's didn't (not the ones I drove, anyway). They were OK to drive, but it was a different story with a truly ancient 'Thames Trader' tipper I drove for a day or two. It was one of those funny looking things with a short, rounded bonnet with a kind of cat's nose shape in the middle (look up Thames Trader on Google images to see what I mean!) That had no power steering, an awful driving position and almost no brakes to speak of.
Cheers, Sofa Spud
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Just thought I ought to mention (curse me if it's in here somewhere and I've missed it) that trying to turn the wheel on a PAS car with the engine off is not quite the same as turning the wheel on a car with 'manual' steering. A PAS system will always feel very much heavier when the assistance isn't working.
I've had base model Honda Accords with nicely light, unassisted steering, also a Lancia Beta (see above) HPE that was very light in spite of its low profile tyres and a Rover P6 V8 that was also a doddle to drive and park. Also had a Cavalier SRi unassisted and with low profile tyres that was a complete nightmare as was an Alfa 33 Sportwagon. I guess it all comes down to good design?
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All three vehicles we have have the PS.
Land Rover Discovery, Trust me you need it!
Renault Trafic Van, Even for an N reg! Yes PS is definitely essential.
Nissan Almera. My mother would have definitely benefitted from it when she was alive and had that car. SWMBO who drives it now - likes it, though could probably do without it. I won't tell her that though!
On the other hand we have to think about modern driving conditions. The roads are much busier now and driving IMO is actually more difficult than 20 years ago as a result (given the same car) due to the extra trafic control rubbish etc they have put on our roads. So making the car easier to drive is a necessary move (IMO).
H
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Yes I think we are all wimps and weaklings, and I also think that my non-PAS car really does keep my arm muscles stronger.
As for all the other 'essential' electric stuff like windows, ashtrays etc - it really doesn't bother me not to have them, and I'd like not to have to take stuff like that for granted - always far more to go wrong when you stop relying on manual power, surely?
Having said that, my (non-infra-red) central locking is playing up a bit again, so it can only be a matter of time before I'm having to vault in and out of the sunroof again. But then again, that will keep me fit too, won't it?
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are p.a.s reliable what happens when yu have a flat battery? Bring a torque wrench???
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My battery is a solid rectangular box shape with two large knobs on top where you fit the leads - it's certainly not flat.
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PS
The only time that electrical/battery power is required is if the hydraulics fail, for instance if the engine stalls whilst the car is moving. It is normally independent of the hydraulics system.
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Gosh SS, you beat me to it.
I once drove a Thames Trader with a bus body on it to India. Yes I did and I still have the pictures. It was a monster thing but never let me down except once in Pakistan. There were so many of them running around there that parts weren't a problem (I think it was the exhauster for the brakes that busted).
It was better than going to the gym for an upper body workout.
Lorry drivers then must have been muscular chaps.
By comparison I tried out my US pal's Kenworth tractor unit in Florida (in a carpark only I hasten to add!) The thing is monstrous, has power everything and all you have to do is point it. It looks terrifying from the outside but once you get in it's as docile as a small car (although the Cummins diesel rattle is a bit intimidating, and I just love the way those exhaust flaps blow up on the upswept pipes when you gun the engine).
We have all become bit soft, I feel. I think it would be a jolly good idea to run courses where you had to use starting handles, take plugs out to warm them on cold mornings, re-learn how to mend a puncture and change a 650 X 13 cross-ply tire, fit new sets of brake shoes to Morris Minors, bleed brakes, decoke a Ford 100E side-valve engine, change the big end shells in an Austin A35 before lunch on a Sunday, fit a Tecalemit cloth oil filter, tune an SU Carb, understand what a dashpot is, drive like they do in those old movies (you know when Gregory Peck is talking to Audrey Hepburn and he's constantly twitching the steering wheel, worn kingpins perhaps?)
Bah! Today's youngsters don't know they're born......
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>>decoke a Ford 100E side-valve
Which curiously, and somewhat irrelevantly, has the same piston rings as a Norton 600cc twin - a fact which saved me a lot of bother at one time.
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Didn't know that, and I should, I used to work for a Hepolite and Wellworthy dealer, County Pistons of York Road Worthing.
Many a rebore or regrind (no tittering please) I've supervised but Lord knows the asbestos I ingested doing all those relines of Ferodo brakes.......we just did it, it was the job and you got on with it.
Back to wimps and weaklings.
It was not possible to set the tappets on a side-valve Ford Popular 103E because there was no way of doing it. The valves had to be ground down to achieve the requisite clearance. Seems to me if is this were the norm these days it would make men of our youth.***
(Huffs and puffs, orders another G & T and returns to Times crossword after writing letter to Editor saying bring back National Service).
*** Growlette wants to know why young Englishmen all go bald so quickly these days.
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