I was interested to see in previous threads the discussions concerning Mercedes and the general view that their quality and reliability are not what they used to be. Aprilia commented that the W124, the old E series before the "frogeye" one launched in the mid 90s, was one of the last built to the bullet proof standards that the Merc badge used to represent. My brother in law uses a chauffeur driver from time to time who has a diesel one with well over 200k on the clock and it still looks and sounds excellent. I too have some contact with the automotive industry and a client of mine, a supplier to mercedes, says that he believes they are pulling out all the stops to drive down costs. To meet their demands on price his firm has had to switch production from Germany to a lower labout cost country as well as reduce the specification of the components, not the same as reducing quality, in order to meet their demands. He agrees that newer models and particularly the ones coming through are not to the same standards as earlier models.
So is it a good idea to buy a good but old mercedes? Such as a relatively low mileage W124 with the run-for-ever diesel engine, if there is still such a thing available, or a German built previous model C class rather than a newer model and more expensive Mercedes or a more modern but lesser marque? A close friend of twenty years or more has always bought a new Merc, run it for three years and then repurchased. This time round he is going for the new Honda Accord diesel. The loss of loyal buyers like this must be a cause for concern for a premium priced marque that apparently isnt delivering against the promise.
As a diesel Audi (the poor man's mercedes) driver, 10 years old, 47 mpg and a mere 110k miles, I favour an old but good marque as a way of getting reliability, economy and a degree of prestige. I would be interested in other views on the subject.
Thanks to all for your interesting and informative comments and discussion throughout 2003.
MGs
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I'm on my second W124 Coupé. I drove an Audi 100 for ten trouble-free years from new prior to the first one. When driving the first one, reckoned it was clearly a better car than the Audi, but actually not that much better. Anyway, I can't pretend to be anything other than a very satisfied owner. The car is rock solid and the ride is firm; if you want the opposite, buy French.
The only problems experienced with both Coupés were introduced by the main dealers:
* Perhaps a touch unfair to blame the dealer on this first one, but on the day I took delivery it developed an oil leak in the middle of a long trip, which they took an age to fix and which they said had been caused by gasket failure because the car had been sitting unused in their premises for too long. That job cost them ten hours' work or thereabouts (about £700 then, £850 now).
* Not at all unfair to blame the dealer of the second one for failing to refill the autobox properly at the 36k mega-service and a little later to crack a sturdy plastic component by overtightening the fitting around it.
Conclusion: great cars that feel as if they have been hewn from the proverbial single block of steel. Just keep them away from main dealers and find yourself the sort of independent specialist mechanic who is currently filling me with confidence and comfort (he charges half the main-dealer rate and he's mobile too). When I bought the second one, it was in the expectation that I would keep it for at least ten years; the first three years have only reinforced that determination, and everything I learn about later models makes me even happier with the choice I made at the outset. For the money I paid, I could have bought a "very tasty" new car; I chose not to and I do not regret it a bit.
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Yes the old W124 is a great car and IMHO a better built car than recent Mercs, my neighbour has a '99 T CLK Coupe and although the body is well constructed, the interior quality is no better than on a Ford Mondeo, loose carpet trim, very poor door handle pull design inside (loose and doesnt fit the aperture), a very chic 1970's dashboard and it rattles. new mercs are good cars, but they are no longer great, just an up-market mass produced one now.
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As some of you know my W211 E320 CDI is in the dealers bieng fixed to to low pressure in the diesel system. They are going to change the injectors and the high pressure pump at the front of the block.
Not what you expect of a Merc but they have loaned me a VX Omega. Not a bad car but the fit and finish is second rate compared to the Merc, the performance is laughable, the brakes are just plain awfull and the handling is downright dangerous. I was trying to justify why I spent so much money on a Merc and I now know why. The Merc is an absolute pleasure to drive, the Omega is not.
I am not happy about my car breaking down again but if it had been fixed properly the first time I would be a lot happier. I think a lot of the problems encountered by people are more dealer orientated and not manufacture, build problems. I know that a Merc breaking down is seen as bad but they have looked after me superbly so I can't moan too much.
BTW, I feel a lot happier as I saw a new Rolls sitting on the hard shoulder today with smoke coming out from underneath. Ha Ha
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Not what you expect of a Merc but they have loaned me a VX Omega. Not a bad car but the fit and finish is second rate compared to the Merc, the performance is laughable, the brakes are just plain awfull and the handling is downright dangerous.
I am no great fan of the Omega, but I think your comments are rather OTT. There is no way that the handling of an Omega is 'downright dangerous' or the brakes 'awfull' - the Omega is a fairly old design now, but the handling is really quite good and you would have to be driving like a lunatic to get into serious trouble in one. Are you sure they did give you one that was bent or with some kind of suspension fault?
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Omega's, cant be all that bad, my Force has a large number of them as Traffic division vehicles and they are quite popular, only gripe seems to be that the RWD layout is not best suited to driving in snow. Also, we have Toyota RAV 4's and several other 4WD's and they are "so-good" that they are specifically banned from being involved in pursuits/chases which the "humble" Omegas are allowed to be involved in.
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W124's are great cars. Just make sure you get a good one that's not been clocked. The M102 and 103 engines used KE-Jetronic which is pretty much bomb-proof provided you change the fuel filter's repalced regularly and the injectors every 80k miles (Bosch injectors are only £20 each and the job takes about 40mins for the set).
The later M110 engine (e.g. E220) uses a fully electronic injection system (Bosch or Siemens) and is a little more difficult to work on. They also had a strong repuation for head gasket failure at about 60-70k miles and also head bolts snapping - but I guess most of that has been sorted by now. Similarly the early 4-speed autobox is generally thought to be more reliable and much easier to fix than the later 5-speed unit (£££££ to fix!).
The one Achilles' heel on all older MB's is the heater/air-con controller unit (which uses analog electronics) they are quite unreliable.
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Totally agree with all above posters,especially MGs comments on driving down costs & lowering components specs.
I have always serviced my own cars & have admired the detailed thought that goes into M-Bs mechanical design in comparison to mainstream production cars. I am dubious that this will continue to be the case.
I have two regrets regarding my past M-B sale/purchases:-
1.That I did not purchase the W124 E 320 Coupe,that would still be giving me complete satisfaction.
2. That I did not retain the1993,190E 2.6 (With AMG attention)that was such a pleasure to drive.
Lucy Ts friend
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"handling is downright dangerous" -
I seem to remember the Omega was quite a decent drive, and most of the press indicated this, some even claiming narly as good as the old five series, but with less steering feel.
Although, it has been left behind by newer "rivals" (not exactly a rival as it is a lot cheaper).
IMHO I think the main factor for MB's obsession with cost cutting was the arrival Lexus.
Fully loaded, impeccable reliability, and at a much lower sticker price - all at a time when MB and BMW were charging for a stereo!
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Trust me the handling is awfull. It maybe better on the sportier models but on the CD is is awfull. In saying that I am actually begining to like it, at least it starts.
With regard to the W124 E320 Coupe, I may have the option to buy one in a few months and judging by what has been posted about these cars I think I might go for it.
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I have a 1993 ce320 coupe with 188,000 miles on the clock. She starts first time every day and doesnt miss a beat. She has a full AMG bodykit and 17" AMG alloys and looks amazing. I have lost count of the admirable looks and comments every time I drive her.
I absolutely love the car and feel a million dollars whenever I drive her.
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