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Police priorities  
Police priorities - Paul531
Police priorities

When ?er in doors discovered that our car was broken into one Sunday on her staff car park she called the Police, who said they would come and take a look.

She then phoned me.

45 mins later, the Police had not arrived {0.7 miles from police station to car park}, so I drove down in the othet car to see.

A street away from my wife?s work, I saw a police car, the PC had got out and was booking a car parked on double yellow lines.

I got to my wife?s work and survey the damage ? in the end cost about £350 to fix.
Anyway ? soon the Police arrive ? the same PC as I had just seen booking the car on the yellow line.

He apologised for taking so long as he ?had been to a break-in?. No doubt from his training, he knew not to say that he had been booking cars on yellow lines

He gave us a crime number and went ? end of investigation - no finger printing ? no hope of a result ? {no CCTV either}

Car parked on yellows ? result for the Police

£350 crime taken place ? not worth any effort.

Paul {Forest of Bowland}

Tags: legal police theft accidents

Police priorities - 8 ball
Welcome to the word of public service reform & police priorities. You got a crime number; end of story, as far as they're concerned. At least someone came to see you. Most of the time you're asked to go down to the station to make a crime report. Probably just as well as you didn't catch them. You'd have been arrested on the spot for infringing their human rights.
Sorry about your break in.
8 ball
Police priorities - Rob the Bus {P}
Hi Paul

I agree entirely with your sentiments. About ten years ago (the only time so far that I have been a victim of car crime) my car was broken into. Nothing was stolen, just a side window smashed. I rang my local police station only to be told that if I wanted finger prints taken then I had to drive the car to them (with a smashed side window and glass falling out onto the road). I just took the crime number and rang Autoglass.

By the way, Paul. I presume that come Hallo'een you'll be popped back into your box for your hibernation until next October? ;-)

Cheers

Rob
Police priorities - jeds
You wait, the next thing will be an automated crime number line. 'Sorry, all our officers are busy at present, if you would like a crime number for insurance purposes please select one of the following: Press 1 for a car crime number, press 2 for a burglary crime number, press 3 for a mugging crime number - have a nice day'.
Police priorities - Dwight Van Driver
If as stated then I have nothing with which to defend them.

DVD (Head hung low).
Police priorities - volvoman
Sorry to hear about your problem Paul. I do think that sometimes the police's priorities seem odd but think that this is partially due to them having too many things to do and not enough numbers. Let's face it we all want 'our' crimes or problems investigated as a matter of priority and it just can't be done. I can imagine another scenario in which officers sent to a car break-in might be chastised for not being available to deal with something else. I just wish the police were relieved of some of their more 'mundane' duties and freed up to concentrate on more serious crimes and, indeed, the sort of traffic offences which really are dangerous.
Police priorities - Thommo
Hold on Mr. V, this seems to be the 'resources' arguement again. As far as I am aware the Police do largely get to decide their own priorities and they seem to have decided to ignore crime which is either 'difficult' or does not involve them getting a slice of the wedge.

As someone at the Tory party conference remarked there is no use in having an additional 40,000 officers if all they are going to do is hold 40,000 additional speed guns.

Take Pete's example, the officer concerned was out booking people parking on double yellows on a Sunday! Surely he had better things to do, like go and attend to Mrs. Pete.

I would like to see the Police focus on real crime before I commit to giving them more 'resources'.

Getting a bit political now as opposed to motoring so I'll shut up.
Police priorities - Sooty Tailpipes
Yes, the Police are useless these days, this is not the fault of the individual officers, who are as fed up as the rest of us, but the people who have infiltrated positions of authority who would really be best placed somewhere else.

Recently, we had a robbery at work with 5 men in balaclavas stealing £40k worth of computers. I chased them out to see their gettaway car, and someone else phoned the POLICE, they came shuffling along 2 hours later, and just shrugged and rolled their eyes etc... SOCO came two days later.

It's the same when you go to a POLICE station, usually just a buzzer on a desk , (if you're lucky enough to get inside) press it a few times and give up!

Yet while driving along the A66 last week, there were two occasions where they were parked in a farm entrance in a £25k car plus all the expensive equipment and they just sit there pointing a laser gun at everyone who drives past through the pennines.

Meanwhile in the cities.....
Police priorities - Mark (RLBS)
I'd be very interested to know what the ratio of police to population is here as opposed to (say) the US.

Police priorities - volvoman
As I said, their priorities do sometimes seem very odd but I don't blame the rank and file for that - they're just caught in the middle between the public and 'head in the sand' politicians, PC obsessed senior officers and 'cloud cuckoo land' judges. They're understrength for policing todays dangerous UK and have to spend far too much time processing paperwork to cover themselves. To add to all of this, the current obsession with PC means their recruitment policy is decidedly dubious and more to do with hitting targets than securing passionate and committed personnel.

On the street, having done their job and caught someone, they then have to contend with the CPS and our learned bewigged friends in the chair who frequently seem to be living on another planet. On the basis that I wouldn't do their job for any amount of money, I find it hard to complain about the 'service' they're able to provide.
Police priorities - smokie
I was watching on of those Scariest Ever Police Chase programmes taped from cable at the weekend and there was a nutter on a School Bus. I counted 15 police cars following him onto the freeway, but there could have been more.

I'm always amazed just how many cars they have available to turn up at an incident. When I went out with my local TraffPol on night from Taplow (M4 beat) there was only us plus one other traffic car covering a huge district.
Police priorities - Jonathan {p}
It is only speculation that he was booking the car for double yellow lines. He could have been checking almost anything, for example it could have been involved in a hit and run, or a robbery, or have been stolen and dumped.

Its only my opinion, but things are not always as they seem when driving past.

Jonathan
Police priorities - volvoman
I don't disagree with you entirely Thommo but you could look at it all another way. If people stopped speeding, all the police resources currently tied up dealing with it could be freed for just the sort of incidents we've been hearing about. We really can't have a situation where lawbreaking is simply overlooked and if we expect the police to enforce the law we all have a responsibility to abide by it no matter how much we disagree with it.
Police priorities - Sooty Tailpipes
Oh, if we stopped speeding, they would just get the money some other way, like for thought crimes or something.
Police priorities - Andrew-T
joo - So why don't we all stop speeding, so that at least it becomes harder for them to get the money?
Police priorities - GJD
I don't disagree with you entirely Thommo but you could look
at it all another way. If people stopped speeding, all
the police resources currently tied up dealing with it could
be freed for just the sort of incidents we've been hearing
about.


There will never be infinite resources so there must always be priorities. Resources could equally well be made available for dealing with non-speeding crimes if priorities were reassessed.
We really can't have a situation where lawbreaking is
simply overlooked and if we expect the police to enforce the
law we all have a responsibility to abide by it no
matter how much we disagree with it.


But that's precisely the situation the OP and others are complaining about. I consider registering a crime number and doing nothing to be equivalent to "overlooking", and the root cause is severly skewed priorities.

GJD
Police priorities - cockle {P}
Locally the police/traffic wardens are no longer responsible for double yellows, that is now the responsibility of our local council since decriminalisation of parking offences. In theory releases the police to do other things, all it has done here is to cause chaos in the evenings, everyone now knows that the police don't issue tickets and all the parking attendants knock off at 18:00; result, Bedlam. Also it doesn't appear to have released the police to do what is really required.
In Southend, on a weekend night somewhere around 15,000 people come out of the nightclubs at 2a.m. Over 50% of crimes against the person/fights/muggings etc, occur between 21:00 and 04:00 on three nights of the weekend in the central two wards of the town. I have it from a pretty reliable source that the average police manpower on the street at those times is about 10! There are two problems here that I can see, surely most officers should be on the streets when the majority of crime is being committed and for those poor officers who are out there the odds are pretty much stacked against them, anyone fancy 1500:1?

To be fair, when the chips are down, and they are about, our bobbies do seem to respond pretty effectively. Back in June my wife witnessed an incident in the street involving assaults and weapons near to the local school at afternoon school run time. Within ten minutes of her call the police had not only responded in numbers but arrested all the people involved. Won't say any more as case has yet to come to court, but I was impressed with their response and their courtesy and treatment of all the witnesses.


Cockle
Police priorities - GrumpyOldGit
It all went downhill back in the 60s when the police took to panda cars. From that moment on they became reactive instead of proactive.

Now they mainly drive around in cars waiting to be told of an incident, rather than walking a regular beat, getting to know local people, building up intelligence on the ground and stopping the incident happening in the first place.

Until the police get back on the street, nothing will change. We have as good as handed our country over to the criminal element.

Privatise traffic policing. Sell the franchise for a large fee, the franchisee taking the cash from fixed penalties and a cut from court penalties. Using the police to handle traffic is unnecessary and a waste of resources.

Relieve the police of the massive burden of paperwork by employing more support staff, and get them doing what they do best - preventing crime.
Police priorities - Kuang
Strangely enough, walking back to work through Leicester city centre I saw a couple of WPCs standing at the side of the road while a townie muppet in a micra pushed his way past the crossing pedestrians on a tight corner. The thing is, that road and all the roads leading to it are closed to anything other than buses and taxis until around 6pm - you'd have thought that a knock on the window and a quick word whilst they were standing next to the car might have been in order, especially as said muppet then forced his way by and floored it down a busy street full of pedsetrians who didn't expect to come across cars at that time of day..
Police priorities - Steve S
"It all went downhill back in the 60s when the police took to panda cars."

This is a popular myth. While spending time on the beat it was possible to get to know people in some areas - usually quieter places without much crime anyway. People were also less mobile generally.

Police took to Panda cars because criminals were taking to Mk2 Jags, Ford Zodiacs etc.
Police priorities - GrumpyOldGit
<< >>

Actually it was because a certain estate in the North became a no-go area to beat police due to viloence against officers. They would be stoned by gangs of youths or be 'bombed' by a fridge or TV thrown from a roof for example.

The CC of the time came up with the idea of cars to protect his men. This was a very good idea for that time and place. Unfortunately it then spread across the country as a manpower saving idea, i.e. - 'Police who are mobile can cover more ground with less men.'

btw, the Panda cars I remember could not have kept up with a Mk II Jaguar or a Ford Zodiac.
Police priorities - madf
I remember having my car broken into 3 years ago in a underground car park in Brighton. When I reported the breakin (stereo stolen) I was told it was the 20th case in this park in 3 months.

No-onme came to see it.

IMO that is a GROSS dereliction of daty: not because of my breakin but because it was clearly a major problem which the police just ignored.

Bring on the day of electable controls on police chiefs: I expect their priorities will change radically.

And if police are undermanned how come 70% of them spend their time at desks (govt stats). If the Chief Constables believe thsy have a problem they should take steps to ensure local politicians support them..
madf
Police priorities - gcds
Interestingly I am reading Patricia Cornwell's book on the Jack the Ripper murders where she states that in the 1880's the number of constables on patrol doubled for the 10pm to 6am shift! Also the constables patrolled alone not like todays officers who seem to have to have a colleague to chat to.
Police priorities - frostbite
Not only in pairs! Recently my local boys in blue were called to two 12 year old girls fighting. A second double-crewed car was sent to 'back up' the first.
Police priorities - No Do$h
I appreciate that most things Police related are normally motoring related, but could we make the effort to keep this one on wheels, be that two, four or however many?

Ta


No Dosh, aka Alan_moderator@honestjohn.co.uk
Police priorities - BrianW
Police work a fixed shift system, two earlys, two lates, two night, four rest. i.e. over a ten day period.
This would make it difficult to get extra numbers out on nights on three days out of seven.
Police priorities - Obsolete
I've had my car broken into twice. On one occasion the door was destroyed to effect the entry. On both occasions the police response was too give me a crime number and then politely tell me the equivalent of get lost i.e. "sorry sir we are too busy to waste time looking at your car". IT does destroy conidnce i the police. Esp. when I often see unmarked police cars stopping speeders on the nearby M4. (Are non-dangerous speeders on the safest class of road more important than theft?) I happen to know our local police have a problem retaining staff and that they are over-worked. There is a problem somewhere and no-one is addressing it. Too much bureacracy? Too many trivial jobs better done by civilian staff e.g. checking cars on double yellows?

Incidentally Mayor Ray Mallon in Middlesborough has introduced civilian neighbourhood wardens that patrol estates. His initiatives have reduced buglaries by 35% and car crime by 25%, with overall crime down by 17% IIRC.
Police priorities - Obsolete
Incidentally many people have the feeling that the effort devoted to catching speeders is diverting the police from other duties. Although this work might be funded by speeding fines I would assume that it takes manpower away from other areas? I wonder if the above is true or a myth perpetrated by the "I want to drive fast, very fast, better to die with a smile on my face than from boredom" brigade?
Police priorities - Thommo
Leif,

I'll make this quick and run away as we are straying away from cars.

In this as most things it does not really matter what is true or not because perception is all.

The only times most people come across the police are on the road (manned speed traps), when they get a static camera ticket or when they report a crime such as burglary.

All they see is manpower put in to a speed trap, rapid action on a speed ticket and complete indifference to what the Police classify as 'low level' crime.

So what you may say, perhaps the Police are right to do this. But in this country we have historically had a low level of police as they have policed with the consent and assistance of the public. The public because of their perception are withdrawing their consent.

Not so quick after all. MUST go and do some work.
Police priorities - Garethj
Paul, when my car was hit there was cctv in the car park. It was at a railway station and so was covered by the Transport Police. I estimated the damage at £300 so not really worth making an insurnace claim but I did ask for them to find out who did it.

After weeks of calling it seems that they didn't have time to even look at the tapes! No fear of 'Big Brother' watching over you on all these cctv cameras - they often can't be bothered!

Gareth
Police priorities - volvoman
Isn't the truth that people want to have their cake and eat it ?

Your car gets broken into and you expect the police to deal with it. For you it's an important issue and deserves action to catch to culprits. "Why don't the police concentrate on serious issues?" you exclaim. Then one evening your wife comes home in a real state having been terrorised by a speeding maniac whilst driving home and all of a sudden you can't understand why the police don't do more to catch these maniacs. A few days later you go off to work in your car, get a ticket for speeding and complain that the police are vicitmising you ! "I wasn't really doing anything wrong" you complain, "so why do they spend so much time persecuting us motorists ?" You've already forgotten your attitude of a few days before haven't you ? Suddenly police action on speeders shouldn't be a priority any more should it ?


?Expecting the police to ignore speeding or be able to predict which speeders are maniacs on the verge of an accident as opposed to those who aren't really is asking a lot of them isn't it!
Police priorities - pdc {P}
Then one evening your wife
comes home in a real state having been terrorised by a
speeding maniac whilst driving home and all of a sudden you
can't understand why the police don't do more to catch these
maniacs. A few days later you go off to work
in your car, get a ticket for speeding and complain that
the police are vicitmising you ! "I wasn't really doing anything
wrong" you complain


Erm, there is a difference between speeding, and speeding while menacing someone.
Police priorities - volvoman
Errm - with all due respect you seem to have missed my point PDC - YOU may not think your speeding is menacing but the person in front may NOT share your view. Whose rights are going to be put first in such a situation ? The law breaker or the law abider? I never said all speeding was menacing. If you're speeding along an empty road it's not menacing is it. If you're doing so on the M25 in rush hour that's a different matter and you might well be amazed how many people find that sort of behaviour menacing. My wider point was really that we all expect the law to protect us but we're not so keen when it catches us out !
Police priorities - GrumpyOldGit
V-man - if the police actually did get after speeding maniacs we would all be happier. The fact is that the vast majority of people caught by them are not maniacs and not exceeding the limit by very much.

I see 1 or 2 speeding maniacs most days on my commute. The rest of us are often speeding, but relatively safely. Those 1 or 2 idiots are the danger, not the bulk of the traffic with drivers behaving fairly sensibly, albeit breaking the law.

The police spend far too much time gathering tax rather than fighting serious problems simply because it's easier and they get a better clear-up rate as well as the income.
Police priorities - madf
Personally I think the problems for the police stem from the fact that repeat offences really do not attract the level of penalties they deserve.

For example: on speeding offence: may just be bad luck/misjudgement, 2 in say 3 years is questionable, 3 is deliberate .

Ditto car theft, burglary and joyriding.

Anyone who asks for mor ethan 3 offences to be taken into account should be treated in such a way as to be commensurate with the crime: eg speeding loos of licence and vehicle, burglary etc..prison.

It might be tough on the offender but it would deter most offenders I think.

As for speeding : well I'm older and wiser and hving been passed several times by muppets exceeding speed limits by more than 20mph, I think severe penalties are called for.

The police spend more time form filling and £2million investigating in great detail allegations against an Asian officer.. now why did they not do that to the muder of Calvi in London 20 years ago.

Remember Manchester had a Chief Constable more intereested in persecuting his deputy John Stalker for his NI report than solving crime?

Make them responsible to the local populace rather than faceless quangos. I say..

madf
Police priorities - joe
I can still remember the face of the police motorcycle officer as he wrote me out a ticket for not wearing my seatbelt. He uttered the immortal words "its for your own good sir". Quite how handing over £30 to the government for failing to take steps to protect myself is in my own good I struggle to say, but of course I kept it zipped... (Yes I know seatbelts save lives, but why that should be anybody's business but mine I cannot say)

It is only natural that police will de-prioritise offences where there is a low chance of identifying the culprit and convicting him/her. It is simply not worth the paperwork. I do not say this in a cynical way, it is simply true that the paperwork that comes with the most straightfoward arrests is horrendous. If the case ends up in court, the arresting officers then have to hang about in court all day waiting to give their evidence. Faced with that, I'd much rather hand out speeding tickets, wouldn't you?
Police priorities - volvoman
Got to disagree in large part GOG - do you think the maniacs you refer to believe they're dangerous maniacs or good drivers just like you ? Who's judging whom ? They may well feel you're a maniac for getting in their way! Do you think they're going to put their hands up and confess to their bad behaviour or claim they were in complete control all the time and not posing a threat to anyone ? The point I'm trying to make is that how do the police tell the difference and who ever thanks them for what they do ? I've never heard anyone admit to driving dangerously and maybe that's because few of us are prepared to accept that we're anything less than good drivers - it's always someone else's fault. Now, considering how many good drivers there are around who speed safely and don't pose a threat to anyone else, there seem to be an awful lot of accidents in which excess or inappropriate speed is a major contibuting factor. A speeding motorist may well not be the cause of an incident but if he can't slow down to avoid it because he's driving too fast and too close, he is just as responsible as anyone else. This is what we see almost every day on our motorways but nobody ever seems to accept any blame whatsoever.
Police priorities - Obsolete
Volvoman: I can understand someone doing 80 safely on a motorway being annoyed at being nicked when earlier her car was vandalised and the police did not want to know. I suspect that most people who speed on motorways are not dangerous. I don;t claim any special knowledge though. Regarding speeding in residential areas, the problem is that where I live most dangerous speeders get away with it. It would be interesting to know what proportion of police time is allocated to what tasks. It wouldn't surprise me if they were doing a good job given the resources available. Apparently hoax calls is a major problem.
Police priorities - GJD
?Expecting the police to ignore speeding or be able to predict
which speeders are maniacs on the verge of an accident as
opposed to those who aren't really is asking a lot of
them isn't it!


It's asking a lot of an autonomous yellow box. It's asking exactly what it required of well trained traffic police officers.

GJD
Police priorities - pdc {P}
Well the Mets probationers certainly know where their priorities lie:

"Meanwhile, 10 police officers could be facing disciplinary action after going to visit the stunt [David Blaine] when they should have been on night patrol in east London.

The probationers were seen turning up in full uniform at 0400 nearly a week ago, and told site security they were not responding to a call but were simply bored.

The officers should have been taking part in street patrols in East Ham and Stratford, five miles away from the stunt.

A Metropolitan Police spokesperson told BBC News Online the force was 'disappointed' with the officers' behaviour."
Police priorities - NowWheels
Car parked on yellows ? result for the Police
£350 crime taken place ? not worth any effort.


Hi Paul

Sorry to hear of your trouble -- that sort of thing is quite upsetting as well as inconvenient. But I hope you wont mind me disagreeing with the conclusions you draw from it!

I'd agree with other posters who note that some drivers seem to think that the rukes of the road shouldn't be enforced -- I'm one of those who'd like to see them much more strictly enforced (e.g. automatic short term loss of licence for speeding).

Parking on double yellow lines isn't just a technical offence -- the lines are there for safety reasons (e.g. to ensure that visibility at a junction is not impeded) and to keep the traffic moving.

That ticket issued for double-yellow lines was a quick job for the oficer -- it will have reminded one bad driver to obey the rules, and may even have prevented an accident. It all seems to me like an effective use of resources, though I can understand why you feel miffed at having to wait!

I've had my car broken into, and I know that's annoying -- though it was not as scary as when it got vandalised, and that was much much less scary than when it was set on fire and narrowly avoided taking my house with it (thank god for the fire brigade's quick response!)

When I grabbed the young hoodlum (only 10 years old, sad story) who smashed my car's lights and windows, the police came quickly and in force because there was a real chance of putting an end to a cycle of vandalism in the area. When the culprit had fled, they came much later -- which I was annoyed about, but when I thought about it I could see why.

But I also know that the chances of finding useable fingerprints are slim, and that the process is expensive -- so it makes sense for an expensive service like fingerprinting to be targetted towards crimes such as burglary, which have a much nastier effect on the victim.

Hope you and your wife are not too skint after paying up for the repairs -- £350 hurts.

Claire
Police priorities - DeeJay
Nowheels is right to say that fingerprinting a car is an expensive operation with a limited chance of a useful result . Sadly, in today's society , even if prints of a known car thief were found on the vehicle , convincing the court that the criminal was responsible for the crime and hadnot happened to have lent against the car to tie his shoelace whilst innocently walking past is nearly impossible ! Too much benefit of doubt in the face of a clever lawyer's explanation .No wonder the police do not consider it usually a justified use of resources .
Police priorities - Armitage Shanks{P}
DeeJay/Nowheels, I am sure you are right to say that fingerprinting is expensive, in time if not money, but if the chance of success is so limited why is our "Dear Leader" supporting a scheme to get the DNA of everyone in the country onto a national database to fight crime?
Police priorities - DeeJay
Why indeed AS ? A good question but not one I'm qualified to answer( and we probably would be told that its too off-topic to discuss here). DNA testing may well be used on a car involved in a crime but is unlikely to be considered justified in the case of a "car crime".
I don't believe it...! - P.Mason {P}
From today's Telegraph-

'A computer analyst was bemused when three police officers arrived on his doorstep to check his car and fined him £60 for a loose battery connection and empty windscreen fluid reservoir.
Richard Jeffery, 46, of Eastmoor, Wakefield, West Yorks, watched incredulously as they carried out a half-hour inspection of the 11-year-old Vauxhall Cavalier.
West Yorkshire Police said yesterday that they would bre withdrawing the fixed penalty notice.'

Please, someone, tell me that this was a joke....

P.
I don't believe it...! - Ian (Cape Town)
Obviously Eastmoor is such a peaceful, crime-free village that they have top find something to keep police officers gainfully employed. I am, however, disgruntled that they sent THREE officers. Surely, with that amount of staff, there should have also been a sergeant supervising them?
I don't believe it...! - THe Growler
Maybe they were bogus officers like we get in the Philippines looking for pay-offs to leave this guy alone!

Couple of times I've had visits from con artists dressed as police, one telling me my residence papers were not in order (they are impeccable and handled by an attorney very close to our President) and another that my car had just been involved in a fatal accident when it was at that moment 3 days in the shop awaiting parts.

If it was me I'd tell 'em show me your authority to be messing with my property or I'll set my Rottweiler on you.




I don't believe it...! - Armitage Shanks{P}
Sorry to sound cycnical but one has to wonder what would have happened to this gentleman if he had rung the police to report his car stolen? Just the issue of a Crime Number for his insurance and a letter addresssed to "Dear Victim" a fe days later! I am NOT anti police but I do think that their higher authorities are more concerned with mindless "Targets" and focus groups and other PC rubbish. We have limited resources and their use is controlled by senior managers rather than leaders, IMHO.
I don't believe it...! - BobbyG
I realise the police made a complete pig's ear of this, but one thing of worth was the fact that this was part of a clampdown on untaxed and unroadworthy cars that are kept on roads in housing estates.

I don't believe it...! - Armitage Shanks{P}
BobbyG, I hear what you say but

1. Was this car on a "housing estate" - whatever that is?
2. He wasn't charged with no tax so they picked the wrong car!
3. Empty screenwasher on a parked car isn't even an offence SFAIK. On the road yes, but parked outside your own house - I think not! "I'll be filling it up before I drive officer." If the list given of what 3 officers could find wrong, in 30 minutes with an 11 year old car, is correct I think the owner is keeping it in excellent condition. Better to pick on the 1000watt stereo/baseball hat brigade and leave normal people alone!
I don't believe it...! - Dwight Van Driver
Oh AS, can I ask you to take the blinkers off.

What if.....

Someone has put the bubble against him of having a shooter/ drugs in the car and they turned it over but rather than blow the game away decided to do a RT Check. There are some Computor Analyists and even Teachers who are bit suss.(TIC).OK PU I know a Notice under PACE but do you need one for a RTC?

1,000 and one reasons I can think of and pretty serious if it takes 3.

Don't believe all you read in the Media. BBC had it on the News last night the speeding Ambulance Driver with the transplant was STOPPED by the Police. WE all know it was an SC don't we.

Vehicle on the road outside the house?. Then sorry vehicle using the road and wipers/washers need to be maintained in good and efficient working order. (Reg 35(6) MV Con & use Regs 1986)

DVD
I don't believe it...! - Clanger
I don't know about the loose battery connection, or how the police would test it - sure it wasn't a loose battery? MoT fail point, BUT anyone who lets their screenwash run dry can't be doing their weekly checks and therefore can't be taking their motoring seriously, can they?

Apparently one of our esteemed moderators expects his car to run for thousands of miles without lifting the bonnet, but he's surely the exception. If I knew how to work the search thingy I would post a link; I think the thread was called "Do we mollycoddle our cars?" or some such.

Anyway, let's hope this is the thin end of the wedge and police will soon be fining car owners with dangerous bodywork damage, tailgating, not signalling and all the other offences that annoy us so much.






Hawkeye
-----------------------------
Stranger in a strange land
I don't believe it...! - eMBe {P}
>>.. If I knew how to work the search thingy I would post a link; ...>>

thread was actually called "Do we molly-coddle cars?"

here it is:

www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=9193
I don't believe it...! - Clanger
And here was me thinking mollycoddle was all one word ...

Thanks eMBe


Hawkeye
-----------------------------
Stranger in a strange land
I don't believe it...! - Armitage Shanks{P}
OK, with my blinkers off I can spell Computer and Analyst, even without the benefit of any legal training. If the whole event was so secret and looking for things other than an unfilled washer bottle how did it get into the Daily Telegraph in the first place and why wasn't it announced as part of a crackdown on guns and drugs? This is the sort of action the public wants and if the police are doing it I would have thought that they would want the public to know about it. Vehicle parked on drive OFF road? No need to comply with any rule other than SORN if applicable?
I don't believe it...! - none
The Telegraph, just like the Sun, prints what it's readers want to read. Just a different sort of 'shock, horror' story. The reporter might not be lying, just omitting a few relevant details.
As for the reported event - this sort of thing happens fairly often around my neck of the woods. (Housing estate ??). Criminals don't catch the bus these days, they use a car.
A few months ago the police raided a flat in the block in which I live and several of them spent a couple of hours inspecting the car of the local drug dealer. A couple of days later the dealer was complaining about the police leaving his car interior untidy. (Good newspaper story ?)
I don't believe it...! - BobbyG
Armitage, as I said, they made a pig's ear of it. A housing estate is an area with a large number of houses eg residential area.

The sort of place where I live and I never ever see a police car or plod on foot and where people have untaxed cars, half built cars at side of road, the same road that they think the normal rules do not apply re speeds, seatbelts etc.

As i sais their actions bit them badly and I hope there will be a few knuckles rapped at the least, but the fact that they had actually set out to look at cars parked up in areas that they would not normally go, can only be a bonus.

And if they could catch some mobile discos on the way that would be a bonus!
Strange story about police - Thommo
Caught a strange little story in the Telegraph on Saturday.

Some quiet guy no police record, no motoring convictions, nothing, owns an 11 year old Cavalier. One day three police officers knock on his door and demand to check over his car parked on his drive. They spend 1 1/2 hours doing this and then issue a fixed penalty (£60 and 3 points) fine for having an empty window washer bottle.

Homeowner thinks its a joke at first then realises they are serious. Matter referred to local paper whereupon police drop the penalty notice.

Now as I say this was in Saturday's (18th november 2003) Telegraph so I assume the story was checked and is true but even by the wierd standards of today this is strange.

Does anyone know what this was all about by any chance?
Strange story about police - guzzler
Thommo, check the 'I dont believe it' post
Strange story about police - Armitage Shanks{P}
See earlier "I don't believe it" thread. Regular contributors have got a bit of raised blood pressure over this one!
Strange story about police - Sooty Tailpipes
He is probably an 'enemy of the establishment'.
Other examples are the Paddington Train Disaster Survivor's Group who have had similar experiences or another example would be influential members of non-establishment political parties such as BNP and UKIP, at the other end of the scale, I suppose you could cite Dr David Kelly.
Strange story about police - jeds
I disagree. People who recklessly allow their washer bottles run out of water are a menace to society and should be rounded up and dealt with severely. I personally would pay two hundred pounds for my road tax if I thought it would help fund sensible policies like this.

I'll be right back - men in white coats at the door.
Strange story about police - ajit
If the car was on the driveway and not in use on the road, what right do the police have to prosecute ?
Strange story about police - Armitage Shanks{P}
Sooty Tailpipes, thanks for your input. Do you remember the man who stood up to the Canterbury Council and their Parking Attendants? He started a jokey website concerning the Canterbury Clowns and was hassled by the council and the police until he firstly, moved the site to a Russian ISP to protect his rights to free speech and freedom of expression (!!!!), and secondly closed it down altogether. The council got so paranoid that they put grilles over their mirror glass windows and he asked them if they had got planning permission for this work. Answer NO, red faces and more harrassment. In the end he had to get on with life in the real world and he gave up.
Strange story about police - Armitage Shanks{P}
Canterbury Clowns - The Final Story

1. \'Canterbury Clowns\' Site Closed Down - Again!
On 18 September Mr X announced that he
had, once again, felt compelled to close down the
Canterbury Parking Clowns web site whilst he
sought legal advice. This followed a call from an
officer from the Kent constabulary who advised that
he was acting on behalf of a senior officer \'who was
concerned about the site\'s content.\'

Publicly the police denied any interference. For this
reason Mr X refused to meet them and asked them
to put their concerns in writing.

Apologising to those who appreciated the site, and
particularly to the seventy businesses in Canterbury
who gave it their support, Mr X said: \"I need to
ascertain what freedom I have to publish a web site
without having to first check out every bit of
material posted on it with the police.\"

On 24 September Mr X received eighteen offers to
host the site in USA, three in Canada, one NZ and
one in Mexico! The site is now hosted in the USA
at: http:/jnantz.redback.inificad.com/canterbury.
(There is a link from the ParkingTicket home page.)
Last time the site was closed down news spread
around the net resulting in it receiving over
2,000,000 hits.

From a legal standpoint Mr X is no longer
connected with the Canterbury Parking Clowns
website. This means any future police enquiries will
have to be pursued in the USA!

This is an amazing story that gives credence to the
view that the police can\'t catch criminals so they
now try and criminalise those they can catch.

No more Mr X ing names please, just to be on the safe side. Ta,

ND

Strange story about police - Dwight Van Driver
AS

With respect and I hope no spelling mistakes, may I take you up on some issues in the above post.

Firstly, as I understand it, Sec of State for Transport in the Road Traffic Act 1991 (S43 and Schedule 4) put the responsibility on Local Authorities to implement parking schemes within their areas. Section 44 gave authority for enforcement through Parking Attendants, thus removing the authority for such matters from Police hands.

As far as Canterbury is concerned that LA have implemented various Orders such as The Road Traffic (Permitted Parking Area and Special Parking Area)(County of Kent)(District of Thanet) Order 1999 (Stat Instrument 3400 and another at 3401 of 1999).So parking matters should not be a Police issue as some would think.

I would therefore suggest that Police are not involved in parking matters as such unless a serious obstruction is encountered whilst on patrol.

As to why the Police would warn the Web Site originator I can give no explanation unless there was a near infringement of criminal law of which without considerable research I am not au fait with.

As to Police not tackling crime I will say this. There are good and bad in every organisation, efficient and in efficient officers. Balance with what you say the fact that the number of criminals in our Prisons are at record levels and an all time high. These are not all Council Tax Non Payers. It would therefore suggest to me that despite the chains and shackles of bureaucracy (is that right?), of which the majority of the public have no conception of, that are imposed on our boys in blue, they must be getting something right.

Finally on speeding, can I reiterate what I, MLC and Full Chat have said in the past. The majority of Police are against the proliferation of SC?s but not at the apparent cavalier attitude to the offence demonstrated by some. Because of this we have seen too many mangled bodies, destroyed lives etc. that thankfully many of you have not seen or been involved with. That attitude of it won?t happen to me is prevalent and the three of us know different. It does and it will.

You may have picked up that where possible I try and give some insight into/defend my former occupation whose big fault is lack of communication. I am proud to have served the public. Likewise as ex RAFP, I also have high regard for that service despite the tales I could tell what went on with O.O?s and in the Officers Mess.

Lets both agree that there are no angels but we can strive to be.

DVD
Strange story about police - Morris Ox
Can I politely take issue with quite a few people in this thread?

We've directly identified an individual and then made suggestions about potential suspicions/associations of a criminal nature.

I think that spells the end of tnis thread.

Over to you, Mr Moderator.
Strange story about police - No Do$h
Can I politely take issue with quite a few people in
this thread?
We\'ve directly identified an individual and then made suggestions about potential
suspicions/associations of a criminal nature.
I think that spells the end of tnis thread.
Over to you, Mr Moderator.


I prefer \"Moderator Bloke\", but Mr Moderator is fine ;o)

Most of the above is already in the public domain, however to be on the safe side the name has been removed.

ND

ps. Folks, can we try not to turn the Back Room into the AGM of the ACAB society? If you don\'t know what ACAB is, you\'re unlikely to want to be a member of said group and probably don\'t need to know. Suffice to say I don\'t think all police are pink fluffy dice
Strange story about police - DavidHM
DVD - you may like to take a look at these articles from the surprisingly reliable TheRegister:

www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/26104.html and

However, the police became involved and warned the site's owner that the publication of the photos is deemed an offence under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

Police also warned that the widespread use of the term "Parking Clowns" to describe the traffic wardens is also unsatisfactory since it could lead to a "breach of the peace and possible violence".


The offence is presumably 'engaging in a course of conduct likely to cause harrassment' (or words to that effect, I'm quoting from memory) which is a very broad offence that prosecutors obviously don't like to use. As for a breach of the peace - I'm afraid I find that idea laughable.
Strange story about police - Dwight Van Driver
Thanks DavidHM

Very interesting, both criminal and civil remedy.

www.tinyurl.com/st71

DVD
Strange story about police - pdc {P}
Sorry, not motoring related, but I just don't think politics is working any more. The more people who take this sort of action, embarassing public bodies, the sooner I think we will regain some form of normality in this country.

Power To The People, as Citizen Smith would say from the top of his tank (tenuous motoring link as it was on a public road?)
Strange story about police - pdc {P}
I must be setting myself up as an 'enemy of the establishment'. My recent complaint to GMP about yet another 2 untaxed police vehicles was responded to with an email saying that they were taxed and the discs were on display. They apologised when I sent them the photographic proof that they weren't.

Am up to 10 now, and it gives me great satisfaction to get a call from the police thanking me for bringing their ineffieciency to their attention.
Strange story about police - Thommo
Belated apologies for posting an item that had already been covered. I really should read other threads before I do so.

Is my face red...
Police priorities II - Paul531



The recent case of the ambulance driver, who had a speeding conviction hanging over him for months, got me thinking of police double standards.

A few months ago, I was overtaking a car, which was in the second lane of the motorway; I was driving within the speed limit.

I noticed in my rear view mirror a dark people carrier approaching at speed.

The second lane was clear far quite some distance and so returned to the second lane; the inside lane had slower moving traffic in it.

The people carrier, dark tinted side and rear windows, passed me at great speed, I would say 90 MPH plus.

About 10 miles later, I turned off the motorway and took at right at the end of the slip road, over the top of the motorway on the flyover.

The people carrier from earlier was parked up.

It was in fact an unmarked police car.

Two uniformed police officers were setting up a speed camera on a tripod to ?monitor? traffic on the motorway below.

The ambulance driver in the case referred to above, was driving on an {almost} empty motorway in the early hours at just over 100 mph {if I remember correctly} ? and was carrying an organ for transplant.

I could not see any justification however for the Police in the People carrier, driving at far in excess of the speed limit, during morning rush hour on a busy motorway, endangering the lives of other road users, simply to then set up a mobile speed trap.

Cleary this was not an emergency situation.

Paul {Forest of Bowland}
Police priorities II - pdc {P}
Then report it. I have done this twice recently and have received follow up calls from the stations concerned. If the police can't police themselves, then maybe it's time we started to.
Police priorities II - Paul531
Will,

a good idea, but before doing so I would need to check the water level in my washer bottle just in case the boys in blue come looking at my car.

Like the no road tax bit - did you ask them for proof of MoT {if over 3 yrs} and insurance ?

A while ago, moving slowly through road works, I looked at a Police motorbike - a brand spanker.

At the end of the road works I was pulled by a Police car.
I was told that their {motorcycle} colleague thought me suspiciuos, I was given the full PNC then allowed to go - - - - - - - - they did not check my washer bottle though !!!
Paul {Forest of Bowland}
Police priorities II - Pugugly {P}
Saw a superb example of getting their priorities wrong today. I shared Court with a Community Officer who calculated he had spent nearly 6 working days (about 60 hours) bringing a person to book. He had to fight to get the case brought by the CPS. Produce a file the size of a mountain and nag other apathetic other agencies for their help. Oh yes it was a persistant Offender finally getting his come uppance and an Anti-Social Behaviour Order. Interesting this offender had no motoring offences and quite possibly has never touched the wheel of a car. It would have been far easier for this guy to stand at the road side picking off speeding motorists (yes he is trained to do that as well) and tick a few PIs off. The great unreported effort that actually goes on to Policing our communities - mind you it isn't fashionable to actually praise the Police is it !

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