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Maybe not, but in 30 years time, plenty of people will enjoy seeing a 1.6 Cavalier, even if only for nostalgic reasons. It is a part of motoring history and it would be nice for a few to be preserved. Sure, it's no classic in the sense of a ground-breaking design, but I'm sure there'll be plenty of people who'll enjoy reminiscing about them. The bad and the mundane should be kept, if only so that we can be reminded of how bad they were!
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To be classic a car has to be desirable. Hence a Mk1 cortina is junk, but a Mk1 lotus cortina is classic. Hence Capri Mk1s classic, Mk2 & 3 not except the 2.8i. (or to be precise the 280)
So Mk1 cav, junk all of them, the opel manta based on same platform? classic. Maestro? they were junk when they were made and nothing has changed since.
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>To be classic a car has to be desirable.
So how do you explain the Minor? Technically outdated even when new, a half-hearted amalgam of VW Beetle and pre-war American streamlining in styling, and convinced a generation of people that they "get car sick in the back of cars", when in fact it was only in the Minor. But at one time they were everywhere so people have fond memories: just like the old Cavalier. I think people over thirty sometimes forget that for people in their twenties fond childhood memories of trips to the beach or whathaveyou include cars like the MK1 Cavalier, of which there are now very few about.
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So over a million people bought a new Minor even though they didn't desire them? How strange!
A classic car is one which was a good example of its type and will be of historical interest to later generations. For me, that includes the Minor and, perhaps to a lesser extent, the Cavalier. I'd even include the Tribant.
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>So over a million people bought a new Minor even though they didn't desire them?
You know exactly what RF (and I) meant: the Minor was not desirable at all in the sense of the Lotus Cortina, but it was desirable in terms of cheap (and how) transport. How many Cavaliers bought for exactly the same reason? I reckon fewer modern cars (since the 1980s) are seen as classics because we just don't look at most cars that way any more: ordinary built-to-do-a-job cars are closer to kitchen appliances in the way we take them for granted and I doubt there will ever be a Southport Classic Washing Machine Show.
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Well if in 20 years' time you have a Mk 1 Cavalier Owners' Club then you'll have your answer.
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Your answer Growler:
www.cavetteclub.org.uk/
NO I'm not a member before anyone starts!
Charles
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OK Charles. But do you exclude the Calibra? I saw a beauty today, and while I would not wish to go forward through a hedge in a Cavalier variant, they can really look the goods; which is all a lot of good people want - each to his taste!
Tomo as was!
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I don't exclude any car in the classic stakes. If a group of people decide to preserve a particular model then that is perfectly OK by me.
Charles
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Well said Chris.
Thank goodness someone has the bottle to throw away the rose-tinted specs when looking at the Minor. Many love it; I've no idea why. Possibly it's only technically advanced feature was the use of space-saving torsion bar front suspension.
Hawkeye
-----------------------------
Stranger in a strange land
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Possibly it's only technically advanced feature was the use
of space-saving torsion bar front suspension.
Was that why the front wheels suddenly dropped off?
In my youth, I used to see many Minors broken down on the roadside in Sri Lanka, usually with one of the front wheels having fallen off!!
Chad.
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Well, I must put in a word for the Minor: when I was once kindly given someone's to drive for a year or so, I found it handled very well, and very enjoyably, and SWMBO, who is a severe critic, praised it. I was coming to it from a vintage Lagonda so it could not have been too bad. In recent years the Minor has proved capable of upgrades to make it fully useable today. As to collapses, yes, but might these not be attributed to poor maintenance? (Any British car then, of course, might turn out to be a Friday car.)
And as to classics generally, many exist because someone was kind to them when they were just an old car.
My Toyota Supra Twin Turbo was a classic from the day it came off the line!
Tomo as was!
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I agree, if someone offered me a ride in a 1989 Ford Orion Ghia I would jump at the chance, my dad had one for years and I loved it. Would like to see a nice one now, but the vast majority are all rotten.
The same goes for my dad's current BMW, he's had it so long that I feel like I've grown up in it, it was *very* weird driving that car for the first time, after having spent so many years sitting in the back on family outings etc. I wouldn't like to sell it now 'cos even though it's not quite 8 years old, it feels like a classic to me.
Blue
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Exactly, Blue. 'Classic', like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.
Nick.
Owner of two, definitely classic, Morris Minors.
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The old age question of what makes a classic car.
I like seeing non-typical classic cars (VX chevettes/mk1 escorts Austin Maxi'se.t.c) that are in pristine condition. I live in the Bournemouth area and there just so many old dears driving incredibly good nick 1970's cars about. I saw a Hilman Avenger yesterday which was immaculate. I dont particular want to own any of these cars I just appreciate seeing motoring history (good or bad).
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Steve G,
I was in Bournemouth yesterday and there was a congregation of *classic* cars on the promenade. Everything there from an E-Type, various Lotus\'s, an Aston Martin DB5, right down to the humble Moggy Minor and Austin Maxi. IIRC, there was even a 1989 3 series BMW. One car that didn\'t make it was a Skoda Estelle - it lost one of it\'s wheels en route. That\'s what the guy on the PA said anyway.
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Renault Family wrote:
"To be classic a car has to be desirable"
Horse feathers! You, sir, are talking twaddle. A true classic car is one which defines the era in which it was produced. It does not have to be the automotive equivalent of Kylie Minogue (or indeed Justin Timberlake). Yes, the E-type is a classic car, but so too is the Humber Super Snipe. Both would be equally welcome in my lottery garage.
Surely a classic car should reflect the innovations of the time as well? Would anybody here dare to suggest that the Citroen DS is not a classic car? And if I may take DieselBoy's example here - the MG Maestro featured a voice synthesiser. These days, all sat-nav systems feature a voice synthesiser. So, logically, the MG Maestro, whilst generally regarded as being a pile of fetid dingo's kidneys, is an innovative car.
To suggest that only desirable cars can be classics is nothing short of snobbery. Is a 1959 Mini not a classic? What about an MG Magnette? Or a MkI Cortina? Does the Austin Allegro with its quartic steering wheel not deserve its place in automotive heaven?
Blue - I agree entirely that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I believe that this has been discussed before, and (if I remember rightly) I started a thread on this very topic. The general consensus was that one man's scrapper is another man's classic.
Cheers
Rob
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E-type is a classic car
Correct
but so too is the Humber Super Snipe
wrong
Surely a classic car should reflect the innovations of the time
Nope it needs to be desirable
Would anybody here dare to suggest that the Citroen DS is not a classic car?
Yup and the SM
"And if I may take DieselBoy's example here - the MG Maestro featured a voice synthesiser. These days, all sat-nav systems feature a voice synthesiser. So, logically, the MG Maestro, whilst generally regarded as being a pile of fetid dingo's kidneys, is an innovative car."
Wrong it wasnt the first to sport a voice synthesiser, so its just a pile of fetid dingos kidneys.
>Is a 1959 Mini not a classic?
yup
What about an MG Magnette?
yup
Or a MkI Cortina?
Nope - only the lotus
Does the Austin Allegro with its quartic steering wheel not deserve its place in automotive heaven?
No not by any means
Blue - I agree entirely that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king
Anyway you are from ooooopppp north and hence completely lacking in taste and style
Yaaa sucks booo to you ;-)
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Right, that's it. I'm taking my ball and going home. Nya-na-na-na-naaaa.
Erm, quite.
Tell me, if the MG Maestro wasn't the first to use a voice synthesiser, what was? I'm not being bullish, just curious.
And please don't tell me that I'm wrong for suggesting that the Humber Super Snipe is a classic car. To you, it may not be. But I am quite sure that there are several people who have spent time and money on restoring one of these beasts who would be rather miffed at your glib dismissal.
Talking of which, it would have been lovely (not to mention courteous) if you had substantiated each point rather than merely, and brusquely, reiterating what you had said before.
Cheers
Rob
PS >>Anyway you are from ooooopppp north and hence completely lacking in taste and style
Well, I'll go t'foot of our stairs! Yer cheeky beggar. Ah'll set mah whippet onto thee, just see if I don't.
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Tell me, if the MG Maestro wasn't the first to use a voice synthesiser, what was?
Renault 11 TXE Electronique. At least according to www.austin-rover.co.uk which I was prompted by this thread to revisit.
Do I get today's golden saddo award for even bothering to look this up?
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Did the Aston Martin Lagonda have a voice synthesizer even earlier? Was it just the Bulldog version? Am I wrong with both anyway?
Gareth
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In truth Rob, you are right, there is no definitive list, its all about what any single person finds desirable. It would be ok to have a super snipe in the garage, but it wouldnt be crying out to me "get me out so people can look at me". I wouldnt glow with childish delight at driving it down the road.
I do gasp with awe and wonder tho how some people try and make out maestro's and marinas are classic cars. If I had one of those it would be full of chickens before you can say, well, chicken coop actually.
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For insight into whats hot and whats not see Ebay for bidding on classic cars...........
listings.ebay.co.uk/pool1/plistings/list/all/categ...l
Like the Capri 280 currently at £2800
The lotus Mk1 cortina at £8900? blimey
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To my mind, any car has the ability to point to some time in the past.
For example, the MG Maestro. I remember the voice inside the car, though I never heard it. However,I do remember all my friends at school/college talking about it. Indeed the Maestros, Montegos etc were all about Austin Rover trying to get abreast with the competition, and leaving the legacy of the Maxi, Ital (rebadged Marina) and the Allegro behind.
Personally, I do not rate any of the above, but that's not to say that ones in good condition may appeal to certain people.
One car of the past that has a mixed reception is the Triumph Stag. Personally I always liked this car. It has everything that I associate with a true classic - and I can get in it!
I personally like the styling on Spitfires, MGs, GT6s etc etc, but none of these would be any good on my drive as I can't sit in, let alone drive any of them, due to my height and build! A mini - no problem, owned and driven loads!
So, while all the average sized classic car nuts were going for MGs, Spitfires etc and pushing the prices up. I chose a Series 6 Morris Oxford at a quarter of the price. Why? Because I liked it, I always loved the Farina style and I could drive it. Again, like the stag it had a mixed reception.
Hugo
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Just did a quick search on AutoTrader, there is one match to my requirements within a search of 100 miles, and it's only 20 miles away!
pictures.autotrader.co.uk/ATD_web/servlet/media?id...2
Ford Orion 1.6i EFi Ghia,
H reg. 80000 miles, Tasmin blue metallic, tax, MOT, 2 owners, SR, EW, CL, EM, EFS, onboard computer, alloys, not usual rubbish, excellent condition inside + out. £500
I wish I was in the market for a car now!
That to me, is an affordable classic.
Blue
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Ford Orion?
I despair.......................
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Each to their own 95% of the backroom would probably not include PB Commer campers as classics but I have had at least 6 different people this summer alone stop as they passed by to chat about mine. Maybe it just shows that there are other people about as sad as I am
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Not sad, Commer, just different to the herd. Plough your own furrow and pooh to the rest!
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Actually after I posted that I did a National search, there were no others like it for sale *anywhere*, all in rubbishy grey colours, the Tasmin Blue is undoubtedly the best colour they did. Also the others had done higher mileages and weren't in as good condition.
It seems that the best Ford Orion for sale in the whole country is only 22 miles from me, maybe it's a sign? Now where did I leave my wallet? ;-)
My dad would probably like to have a look in one without the sick stain in the back where I chucked up all over the velour backseats after drinking a pint of bannana milkshake when his precious car was only 3 months old! :-)
Blue
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What about the Rover SD1 V8? A lot of people regarded them a badly build BL rust buckets but i'd love to own a mint one. As for a car like the mint cavailer 1.6L, you may not be very excited by it now because they're so many other cavailers about but when nearly all of them are in the scrappers then seeing a mint example will be something of a treat. Even now seeing a maestro let alone a mint one is something of a rarity so it interesting to see a mint model. I can remember seeing cars only about 8 years ago like the vauxhall chevette and the original square fiesta and the triumph acclaim, now whenever i see one it i do find it a bit of a treat in a sad sort of way. I think the ordinary cars could be seen as more interesting for furture generations, its obvious that cars such as ferraris etc are going to be cherished but ordinary cars are just scrapped and could dissappear altogether.
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A true classic might be a car that defined an era in car design. A30/35 Mini, Morris Minor, the BMC Oxbridge and its derivatives, , Cortina to name but a few. Cars driven bythe famous eg E type, Astons etc might be another.
But all cars, when they fade from daily sightings, deserve to be preserved if only for reasons of nostalgia. I would love to see a pristine Simca 1500 like my Dad had in the mid sixties.
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A 1983 SD1 Vitesse in top nick will easily set you back £3500!
The early SD1 were a quality nightmare, new plant, poorly installed and an Austin Morris workforce badly trained and absolutely no quality control. After they moved the production to Cowley, quality improved dramatically. So much so, in 1986, the Police asked for a special production which they kept on the roads into the 1990s.
I get asked some times about the car, friends were very puzzled when they asked me what this lump of metal was when I bought it. So I replied 'This is the car that nearly had a jet engine under the bonnet you could drive on the road.' I found that spiked their interest.
I think what defines a classic is very much subjective, yes there is an Allegro Owners Club. There's nowt weirder than folk.
The Government says it's anything registered before 1/1/1973 but it used to be a rolling 25 years. I think that's a fair description. Personally, for a definite classic that is almost coming up to that would be the Mk1 Golf GTi. That is a universally agreed classic car of the near future.
As for Montegos and Maestros's you could argue that they were penned by David Bache who worked on Rover P5 especially the V8 Coupe, creator of P6, SD1, Range Rover and many other cars that should have seen production. Perhaps post-war Britain's most prolific car designer.
As for the Morris Minor, does Issigonis ring any bells?
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Mk I Golf, anybody? How about the original Giugiaro Scirocco? Far more beautiful than the Mk II and a far more worthy champion of the people-s coupe badge than the blinking Ford Crapi
Then there's the type III Karmann Ghia "Razor Edge". (argle, argle, drool)
Would give any number of limbs to have those three in my driveway
.... and here's me driving an Italian car .....
ND
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