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For years the old Shuttle has been using oil quite regulary - maybe a couple of pints per tankload of petrol. But there's been no black smoke, no 'burning oil' just an occasional slight smell of hot oil when I get out at the end of a run. I wondered today if it might be escaping via the rocker cover. If you look at the picture, www.flickr.com/photos/30658292@N06/? you can see that one of the securing bolts is oily, whereas the others are dry? Could there be a failed washer or gasket under there?
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More likely to be wear in the valve stems.
The oil has to be being burnt : if it was leaking out at 2 pints per tankful, then the underbonnet and underside of the car would be coated with oil
Edited by RobJP on 25/07/2015 at 23:46
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Agreed, if there isn't oil on the ground where you park it overnight, then it's being burnt.
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>> just an occasional slight smell of hot oil when I get out at the end of a run
Suggests to me it's leaking out somewhere, in which case there'll be an oily patch under the engine wherever you park it?
That consumption, around 250 miles/pint, would defininitely leave a blue haze out of the exhaust if was being burnt in the engine.
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I've misjudged the loss. In fact, it's only about half a pint per 250 miles or so. I have tried to have this fixed by my regular garage but had no luck so far. I will mention the valve stems.
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.. it's only about half a pint per 250 miles or so.
That's about a litre per 1000 miles, which I believe is the amount tolerated by some new-car manufacturers. However many posters here advise that is far too much - at least for a new engine. Even with an elderly one it suggests to me that something is wrong.
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Could be the valve stems, but oil going that way would be burnt. What does the underside of the engine look like, especially behind the sump? Rocker covers often leak a bit, but not likely to lose oil at that rate.
If you are stopping for oil as often as fuel, it's time to get it fixed - or get another vehicle. Fifty years ago I was in that position in Canada/US, and fuel and oil both cost peanuts. Still got it fixed.
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You could check with Honda about the grade of oil, certain units had to use a slightly thicker oil to prevent oil burning,
One example 2.2 diesel unit some using 0-30 oil burned about 1 litre per 1000 miles,Honda recommend changing to 10-30 to prevent it happening which it did, the oil was recommended by Honda so no worries about changing.
Just a thought and possible workaround as its pretty much bullet proof that engine (or so I`ve been told)
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That amount of oil use wouldn't worry me one bit on an older car, whether its being burned or leaking down and is now a self applicating rustproofer.
I agree it could be valve stem seals, do you sometimes see a puff of smoke when you start the engine?, unless the CHG went i wouldn't bother with fixing this unless it gets out of hand.
I'd just buy a decent quality 5w40 oil at the right price and keep it topped up, you could arguably not bother about regular oil changes, just renew the filter annually or 9k if you do more miles whatever is specified and do a full oil change every other year to drain any nasties out the sump.
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All comments much appreciated. I'm going to measure the usage of properly and then repost this. There is a definite seepage around one of rocker cover bolts.
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I can now report that the loss is just over one pint (652ml) per 250 miles. There have been no patches of oil on the driveway under the car, no visible smoke. Just that oil in one place on the rocker cover...
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So that's 2000 miles to the gallon of oil. If nothing is leaking out, it must be going down the exhaust. If you can get 40 mpg from your Shuttle (?) your car is running on a 2% oil mixture - almost like a two-stroke ....
Why aren't the plugs oiling up?
Edited by Andrew-T on 31/07/2015 at 12:58
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I very much doubt it's doing 40 mpg. Assuming it's in the UK, that mpv was only sold with the 2.3 petrol and an autobox, and an official figure of 25 mpg.
Assuming this car is still doing that economy, then it's burning 1 pint of oil for every 80 pints of petrol (250 miles at 25mpg = 10 gallons = 80 pints), which is 1.25% . If the fuel economy is a bit worse than when new (20mpg) then it's running at 1% mix.
Sparkplugs on 2-atroke engines don't foul up, so no reason why they should in this case either.
You might have a tiny, fractional oil leak from the rocker cover. But 99% of the oil loss is going through the engine. If you had an oil leak, you'd know about it from one glance at the place where you park.
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Yes it is indeed the 2.3 auto and so MPG is 20 -25, definitely not 40! Not quite sure where that came from. Anyway if I take it to my friendly indy garage and say 'fix the wear in the valve stems' I wonder how much they'll charge.
They are good, but they are 'reassuringly expensive.' The car runs beautifully for its age (1999) and without this oil issue it would be absolutely perfect. Lovely bodywork too - see www.flickr.com/photos/30658292@N06/19994113568/in/.../
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The cost to fix the valve stem issue would be considerably more than the car is worth. Depending on how they go about the job, anywhere from £500 upwards, I'd guess.
I would honestly say to keep on running it as you are. You could try a different grade of oil to see if it didn't use as much, and it's certainly possible that a thicker oil would improve matters.
But as it is at present, it works. It runs, it looks tidy. All you have to do is keep an eye on the oil level, and put a bit in - and let's face it, you certainly don't need to bother with the hugely expensive 'technical' oils for it, as it's happily burning the oil before it gets a chance to degrade.
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In the spirit of Robs post, have a quick look at ebay 290927467144 thats very good oil and @ 25 litres for that price one of the best oil bargains you'll find, that would keep you lubed up for the next few years, mind you Halfords apparently have one of their excellent sales on at the moment so worth a look at their site if you prefer.
Edited by gordonbennet on 01/08/2015 at 07:53
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I don't think anyone's mentioned the PCV, they can cause high oil consumption when they go wrong. May be worth a look.
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Thank. Though I have to own up that I didn't know what the PCV was till I looked it up - positive crankcase ventilation valve. It seems plausible that this could be the culprit. I never get execessive smoke visibly coming out of the exhaust unless it's (a) a cold winter's day and (b) the car has been unused for several days. And the peculiar thing is that the problem has not got any worse for years...
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I don't think anyone's mentioned the PCV, they can cause high oil consumption when they go wrong. May be worth a look.
I ended up checking this myself. There was a helpful video on youtube, link below. Anyway my PCV valve created a vacuum just like his, so I guess it's working and that's not the problem. It did look oily though.
youtu.be/5Kt5ubcQaK0
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I wonder if that engine is the same as used in America(not been able to check)
their verson has cylinder control which apparently has caused problems in that the engine is being overreved in the lower rev range and causing severe oil burning.
I gather there was a recall about the problem out there but no idea of the specifics of it
Might be worth asking Honda if that is the same engine
Just a thought?
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I've gone onto the Honda site and entered the VIN but it's saying 'no recalls'. A good thought though. And now (at last) I know what VTEC stands for!
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I've gone onto the Honda site and entered the VIN but it's saying 'no recalls'. A good thought though. And now (at last) I know what VTEC stands for!
Recalls in other countries sometimes dont apply here even if the problem exists here, sometimes it takes a number of complaints to get anything done,(bearing in mind there are not many around here)
though due to its mileage they may not be very concerned as its been going on for a long time, if you can put up with it, those engines can do a lot more miles than you have already done without issues (according to the Americans)
I wouldnt be surprised if the engine is the same as they use in America, most are but emissions are different we are not as strict here(yet)
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Nice to know it's still running. How many miles has it done? What were the emissions readings on the last MoT? Sounds as though the valve stems and piston rings were loose from new - or badly run in.
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Mileage is around 142,500. On the last MOT (only done in March) the CO was 18%, the HC 55ppm and the Lamda was 1.0. So it duly passed. I bought the car in 2009 - I was told then it had been off the road for a while (its mileage was very low then) and had had a new head gasket. Possibly a head skim too, I can't recall now.
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0.18% is indeed a scrape pass. HC 55 is a bit high. Just for comparison, last year our 1.6 Focus 106,000m was CO 0.00% and HC 10ppm. I am about to change the oil, it will have used nearly 2 litres in the last 11,000m and eighteen months which I think is pretty good for a Ford engine which has had to work fairly hard on a diet of supermarket petrol and some cheap semisynthetic every eighteen months or so.
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Car Parts 4 less do their own 5W-40 for £12.49 delivered. I have used it many times. Good quality and cheap.
Q.
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It looks good value. Thanks. Does it matter that this engine is supposed to take 10w40 though?
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It looks good value. Thanks. Does it matter that this engine is supposed to take 10w40 though?
It won't make any difference at all. The number before the W is the cold rating and the lower it is the better.
As someone has already said, too much crankcase pressure can cause high oil consumption. Check all the crankcase breather pipes incase any are blocked.
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It looks good value. Thanks. Does it matter that this engine is supposed to take 10w40 though?
It can, according to Honda take 20/40
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So that's 2000 miles to the gallon of oil. If nothing is leaking out, it must be going down the exhaust. If you can get 40 mpg from your Shuttle (?) your car is running on a 2% oil mixture - almost like a two-stroke ....
Why aren't the plugs oiling up?
And how on earth did it pass the MoT?
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<< And how on earth did it pass the MoT? >>
Quite. We are agreed that the Shuttle engine is running on 99 petrol: 1 oil and almost everything is going down the exhaust. Must be a very effective and long-lasting cat-converter?
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