Dodge Nitro - starter spinning but engine is not turning over | Technical matters | Back Room Forum

Mon 28 Jul 2014 20:10

Dodge Nitro - starter spinning but engine is not turning over - Woddy321

Hello one and all,

I have a 57 plate Dodge Nitro 2.8crd diesel 39k miles (Jeep Cherokee VM moroti four pot motor). I have purchased the truck with suspected engine failure, it arrived this afternoon not had chance to have a thorough look. We hooked the jump pack on and it seems that the starter is spinning but not cranking the engine, I then thought the starter was shot. However, we towed the vehicle and was difficult to get into gear but once in gear there was no joy engine was still not spinning over. I don't want to fork out for a new motor if it could possibly be something else?

All help is appreciated

Many thanks

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Mon 28 Jul 2014 21:09

Dodge Nitro - starter spinning but engine is not turning over - elekie&a/c doctor

So you bought this motor as a non runner.Did you expect to fit a new flint,turn the key ,and expect it to run?Could be any one of a thousand faults.Presumably the original owner got rid for a reason.

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Mon 28 Jul 2014 21:14

Dodge Nitro - starter spinning but engine is not turning over - mss1tw

Sounds like it's totally and utterly seized to me, and the starter ring gear(?) has gone.

Same symptoms as when a mate drowned his GS1150 motorbike in the floods

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Mon 28 Jul 2014 22:34

Dodge Nitro - starter spinning but engine is not turning over - Woddy321

Yes I bought it cheap as a non runner, with "suspected engine failure" I'm not a idiot. Just seeing if there could be something else like a common fault with this engine. Just gone back down to my yard to have another look, turned the crank with a ratchet was very tight to begin with then freed off for 1/2 turn then it went tight again. I'm just a little confused as to why it is not going into gear very well, very tight at times, when in gear the truck can be pushed freely like there is no gears engaged at all. Cambelt is functioning ok when crank is turned. Just be nice if it was something other than a failed engine ie. something in the bell housing etc..

Many thanks

Edited by Woddy321 on 28/07/2014 at 22:37

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Mon 28 Jul 2014 22:47

Dodge Nitro - starter spinning but engine is not turning over - elekie&a/c doctor

Ok,so I,m going to throw you a bone here!Take off the poly bee drive belt to see if the engine turns any better.If no improvement,then you will need to pull out the injectors to see what is happening.hth

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Mon 28 Jul 2014 23:38

Dodge Nitro - starter spinning but engine is not turning over - The-Mechanic

So starter turns but the engine doesn't and it won't bump start right ?

When turned by the crank pulley it goes slack, tight, slack, tight etc right ?

That's the compression stroke per cylinder you're feeling so you don't have a seized engine otherwise it wouldn't turn by hand.

My best guess is a blown dual mass flywheel hence it won't turn over when bump starting as there's no drive to the crank. I'm a bit unsure why it won't turn over by the starter though. It's possible if the DMF has in fact gone, it could have dropped away from the starter and it's not engaging ?

If there's access in the bell housing to see the flywheel/ring gear, try getting someone to crank the engine whilst watching what's going on thru any inspection holes ? Failing that, take the starter motor off and check if you can turn the flywheel with a lever or screwdriver. If it turns easily the DMF is shot or the ring gear has gone. If the whole lot flops about the bolts could of sheared off or pulled the these out of the crankshaft ?

Edited by The-Mechanic on 28/07/2014 at 23:43

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Tue 29 Jul 2014 00:02

Dodge Nitro - starter spinning but engine is not turning over - Woddy321

Thanks to both replies there.

Yes that is correct, although when it gets hard to turn, it is really hard to turn (although I was struggling having not much space with a short ratchet) I think like you say it wouldn't of turned at all if it was seized.

Yes possibly it's just coincidence with starter motor failing as well, but I totally agree with you that it seems to be coming from the bell housing area?

I think I will have the starter motor off and check and inspect in the housing with our endoscope, if it turns out to be starter motor and DMF I will be a very happy chap, I won't build my hopes up though but will have my fingers firmly crossed.

Will let you know how it goes tomorrow

Any other suggestions gratefully received

Thanks

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Tue 29 Jul 2014 09:32

Dodge Nitro - starter spinning but engine is not turning over - elekie&a/c doctor

I have seen a case on a vauxhall where the flywheel got so hot due to clutch slip,that the starter ring gear had come off the flywheel. Just a possibility.

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Tue 29 Jul 2014 09:48

Dodge Nitro - starter spinning but engine is not turning over - madf

Engine has a record of cracked cyclinder heads, Could be hydraulic lock - water in bores.

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Tue 29 Jul 2014 14:54

Dodge Nitro - starter spinning but engine is not turning over - YG2007

If you have bought it to drop another motor in it then I would look to pull the gearbox off first and see what is happening fly wheel ring gear end. If you can turn it over with a small ratchet the Starter motor will be able to spin it over assuming the Starter motor is ok.

Could have knocked the centre out of the flywheel or spun the ring gear on the flywheel (Seen this on a Petrol Meriva)

As you have bought a suspect motor you need to see if its an easy fix or not so get the gearobx out and take a look

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Tue 29 Jul 2014 16:25

Dodge Nitro - starter spinning but engine is not turning over - Woddy321

Great knowledge being through at me here, cheers guys!

Was hoping to have the box out today, but unfortunately we don't have time (will be starting first thing tomorrow morning)

We took the bell housing inspection cap off today which unveiled a small section of the flywheel, tried to spin over with jump pack on and it was just heavily clicking unlike yesterday where starter was spinning, we also noticed the fly wheel was wobbling back and too?

Maybe the DMF is well and truly duffed!

Will let everyone one what it is tomorrow afternoon..

Many thanks

Edited by Woddy321 on 29/07/2014 at 16:33

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Wed 30 Jul 2014 22:13

Dodge Nitro - starter spinning but engine is not turning over - Woddy321

Right then folks!!

Took the gearbox of this morning, all the 8 flywheel bolts have snapped so DMF was hanging down.

I have ordered new clutch, bolts etc

Only concern is whether to replace the DMF although it has no visual damage, our mechanic thinks it is ok, but to me it feels slightly worn. The friction part of the DMF is rocking a couple of millimetres on the bush when the flywheel is laying flat but is not a real rattly rock. Also, when you feel the free play (the spring side to side motion) when you turn friction part of the DMF clockwise until it meets the damping spring and then when you turn the opposite way it moves 5mm and then meets the other spring. So to narrow it down there is 5mm of loose play between each spring?

I am slightly apprehensive of replacing the DMF itself as it £900

I just don't want to put it back in with the new clutch and bolts etc and it's got a rattle

All advise greatly received

Many thanks

Edited by Woddy321 on 30/07/2014 at 22:16

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Wed 30 Jul 2014 22:21

Dodge Nitro - starter spinning but engine is not turning over - elekie&a/c doctor

I think the big question here ,is why have the bolts snapped.?Something must have come to a very big halt for this to happen,or have they just come loose,vibration?

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Wed 30 Jul 2014 23:01

Dodge Nitro - starter spinning but engine is not turning over - Woddy321

That is a very good question, and is a slight worry. Only positive thought is that if a significant force instantly snapped the bolts you would think that it would have sheared/snapped them flush with the crank if that makes sense? The threads where sticking out of the crank enough to put mole grips on, but they undone very easily (almost by hand) so it's almost like they have not been torqued up correctly by manufactures possibly, worked there way loose and just snapped. Just really bizarre as to why all 8 would come loose.

I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that it will all be ok when reassembled.

Any advice on the DMF whether it will be ok to put back in I have done a little bit of research over this but I am still slightly unsure (still searching now)

Many thanks

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Thu 31 Jul 2014 09:13

Dodge Nitro - starter spinning but engine is not turning over - elekie&a/c doctor

This may help;www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgBxOOTKxMI

Also,can the engine be run with gearbox out?.Not sure where the engine speed sensor is on these,if it is at pulley end or into block or flywheel area.

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Thu 31 Jul 2014 11:01

Dodge Nitro - starter spinning but engine is not turning over - YG2007

If all 8 bolts have sheared they are either made of chocolate, been exposed to a massive load (along with the rest of the drive train) or not been tightened properly. The DMF may be in tolerance and you could chance a new clutch a set of flywheel bolts and refit the gearbox and see what its like. As a garage we would almost certainly be advising the customer to replace the DMF (not for the profit in the job) but rather the comeback in 500-1000 miles when the new clutch has blown to pieces along with our reputation. Running the engine without a gearbox can present problems with adequate support to the engine. Given you have found a major reason for the engine not turning over I think it is reasonable to assume that a new DMF and clutch will see the job right. ( A lot cheaper than a replacement engine)

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Thu 31 Jul 2014 18:21

Dodge Nitro - starter spinning but engine is not turning over - Woddy321

Thanks for the reply's

I did see that you tube video late last night, and judging by what the guy says, mine feels very good.

The clutch plate when taken out looked like new - I get the feeling that it has not long ago had a new clutch and DMF from previous owner, and the bolts have been over tightened causing them to go into a "plastic state" or they where under tightened? I guess we will just never know..

I now have the painful waiting game for the new parts to arrive from our nearest dealer (30mile away). They couldn't give me a defiant arrival date, all I got was IF the parts are in the country then it will take roughly 2 day fingers crossed we will be ready to reassemble tomorrow afternoon.

I will let everyone know how it is when completed

Thanks once again!

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Fri 1 Aug 2014 22:01

Dodge Nitro - starter spinning but engine is not turning over - Woddy321

All parts arrived this afternoon. Going to be first thing Monday morning before we can make a start, I have called every dodge dealership in country and none want to reveal the clutch pressure plate and flywheel bolt torque specifications, terrible customer service.

Does anyone know the torque specs? I've searched high and low on the internet,
Sure if it was a VAG I would no issues..

Thanks

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Fri 1 Aug 2014 22:27

Dodge Nitro - starter spinning but engine is not turning over - galileo

All parts arrived this afternoon. Going to be first thing Monday morning before we can make a start, I have called every dodge dealership in country and none want to reveal the clutch pressure plate and flywheel bolt torque specifications, terrible customer service. Does anyone know the torque specs? I've searched high and low on the internet, Sure if it was a VAG I would no issues.. Thanks

If you know the thread size and type (e.g. M8 x 1.25) and grade of bolt (usually stamped on bolt head) there is a chart of recommended torques at tinyurl.com/q9kv299

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Fri 1 Aug 2014 22:47

Dodge Nitro - starter spinning but engine is not turning over - elekie&a/c doctor

I have looked up a chrysler Voyager with the same engine,and the flywheel bolts are initially 25 Nm plus a rotation of 60 degrees.Obviously need to check if your car is the same.

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