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Agree with Skidpan.
I've experienced this sort of non-reaction a few times when we've been in the market to change one of our cars.
Back in March, when we were shopping about for a replacement for our 2007 Mazda 2, we had arranged an appointment at our local Mazda dealer (who had supplied the three Mazdas we've had) to look at the present Mazda 2 and conduct a test drive.
Turned up for the appointment, and the salesperson wasn't there - was told by another salesperson he'd gone out on a test drive with a customer, and he would be back in ten minutes. No offer of any further help.
Spent the next 35 minutes looking at the showroom cars, opening doors, sitting in them, etc. No sign of the person we were due to see. No approach by any other sales staff. So we walked out. Did e-mail the dealership manager that evening to say how disappointing the whole episode was, especially as we had bought three new Mazdas from there previously.
Went to our Hyundai dealer the next day (a Sunday) on spec, test drove an i20, discussed part exchange, etc, and ordered a new i20. The experience couldn't have been more different.
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Mr B went to two dealerships, next door neighbours, to look at a Celica (the used section of each). The Volvo dealer was clearly glued to his chair and pretended we weren't there. The Renault dealer was great. Same price cars, same spec, only difference was colour. Guess which Celica we bought?!
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With the dealer group I worked for, we had to talk to everyone within 5 minutes and at least acknowledge within 2, if not for any other reason than mystery shoppers! Of course as a salesman I was there to earn so I was always on the ball...I know what you mean though..some of them act like they are on a break all the time!
I sold £83k worth of 2 new VWs to a customer who had experienced similar at 2 other dealers the same day....
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I've been "caught" both ways in the past - ignored when I was almost ready to buy and on other occasions interrogated for considerable time before I was able to just look at cars in the showroom.
The thing that really gets up my nose in car dealers is when you've sat down and start serious negotiating and the salesman/woman has to keep going to their manager for approval of each concession - if they aren't trained or authorised to negotiate then let me talk to the manager myself! More than once dealers have lost sales from me as I walk out now if they start that. No doubt it's part of some clever sales plan but it doesn't work with all customers!
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The thing that really gets up my nose in car dealers is when you've sat down and start serious negotiating and the salesman/woman has to keep going to their manager for approval of each concession - if they aren't trained or authorised to negotiate then let me talk to the manager myself! More than once dealers have lost sales from me as I walk out now if they start that. No doubt it's part of some clever sales plan but it doesn't work with all customers!
Agreed. It's a tactic to make you think you are really pushing them for a good deal. It's got very transparent.
I have also walked away if they don't let you test drive the car before you start the negotiating process (How will I know if I want to buy it until I've driven it?)
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We had a mostly poor experience when we looked about 2 1/2 years ago.
VW just sat in their chairs and suggested we try another dealer. Did that and considering we were looking for a Passat or Golf estate the fact that this VW dealer offered us a test drive in a Scirocco appeared pretty pointless.
First Skoda garage was like first VW dealer but the second was very helpful but ultimately the car did not suit our needs, unfortunate.
First Toyota dealer lied to the wife and showed her a 5 seater in the showroom when we wanted the 7 seater (no diesel available in 5 seater) which was outside, said they were the same, just did not want to get cold. Second appeared great on the phone but when we arrived for our test drive the salesman was out. Handed to another salesman (only when I told them if I left I would not return) who only provided us a 2 mile drive and said it was illegal for us to ride in the front.
Ford were fine but could not get the car we wanted at the price advertised.
Hyundai were great, no pressure, loaned us car for a couple of hours without salesman but told us it would be a minimum 5 month wait for a car when we got back, only reason we did not buy.
Kia like Hyundai but only 8 week wait. Bought car, came in 6 weeks.
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The thing that often hamstrung us when I was at VW was wait times for cars, for example a factory ordered Golf GTD, with a few options including DSG could be 8 months...I know of one customer who waited that long.
We HAD to try and get people into something else in order to supply a car with a reasonable time frame in order to get paid...
When I was at Hyundai it was much better, I never waited more than 3 weeks for a car even a freshly launched one. I think the longest wait would be for an ix35 Premium Automatic which would have been a factory order taking 2 months but I never needed anything we couldnt get from stock. I had a hotline to the manager of UK supply so I could usually get I wanted haha!
I ALWAYS test drove people either with or without me (some people prefer the salesman to be there for reasurrance and directions, and we had to be if trade plates were involved) before any sort of negotiation, I wouldnt waste my time with pointless figures if the car isnt already sold if you like. I followed a process and it worked b***** well frankly! Some people wanted to negotiate without driving the car, I never did, I gave them some very rough figures if they really pushed but always got them into the car before I gave anything away.
However....I know plenty of people who work for other dealers and dealer groups that are so off the ball its not even funny, their only concern is what company car they are getting and how many easy sales that make no money they can tally up and get paid on.
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When I was at Hyundai it was much better, I never waited more than 3 weeks for a car even a freshly launched one. I think the longest wait would be for an ix35 Premium Automatic which would have been a factory order taking 2 months but I never needed anything we couldnt get from stock. I had a hotline to the manager of UK supply so I could usually get I wanted haha!
Things may have changed at Hyundai!
Back in Nov 2011, I wanted a Santa Fe Premium automatic - could have any colour I wanted on a manual from UK stock but zilch chance of an automatic without factory order which was quoted as 10-14 weeks but arrived in 9.
The initial 2.0 CRDi iX35 automatic was in short-supply due to higher than expected world-wide demand for the Santa Fe and Kia Sorento - many customers were sold 1.7 iX35s with a promise of a cheap upgrade to 2.0 when they became available.
Some models of the new 2013 Santa Fe are now on indeterminate factory lead times although there are a few of the launch stock still available. The 2013 Santa Fe has been removed temporarily from Hyundai's Affinity discount scheme to encourage buyers into other models.
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The good thing about Hyundais stock system is that is incredibly easy to see where cars are and what is available, unlike VWs computer which is terrible. That does mean tthough that dealers will say what they see and not dig deeper..alot of cars are in effect hidden from dealers for use on press fleets or for management or whatever, if you can speak to someone at HO they can usually sort something out for someone they like..9 weeks sounds about right though, about 2 months for a factory order if it absolutely has to be. I always quoted longer to cover myself just in case..
An old colleague who still works for them has commented on lack of new Santa Fe, all intial stock was for demonstrators. I am yet to have a go in one but it looks great, apparently less versatile than the outgoing model though.
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The new Santa Fe is better in many respects than the old one BUT ground clearance has been reduced as they're targetting the crossover sales, not SUV sector and access to 3rd-row is much poorer unless you first slide the front passengers seat forward and then slide the 2nd-road forward as well.
I'll not be replacing my 2011 Santa Fe with one of the new ones - I need a decent 7-seater that'll cope off tarmac.
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What always amazes me is that car buyers, like thunderbird above, who appear to be intelligent, experienced people, will accept an unaccompanied test drive of a car without a moment's thought about the insurance ramifications. I have negotiated motor trade insurance for some twenty years, and in all that time every single policy I have come across, or entered into, only covers for test drives where the driver is accompanied by a driver covered under the policy. Unaccompanied test drives would not be insured. Full stop.
If you are offered an unaccompanied test drive, ask to see a proof of insurance. Your own insurance is highly unlikely to cover you. (It may cover for third party or road risks but will not cover you for the car you are driving).
Car salesmen will take the easy option, especially if you are visiting the dealer at fish and chip time! Don't risk it !!! Who was covering you in the Hyundai thunderbird? My guess.....You.
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What always amazes me is that car buyers, like thunderbird above, who appear to be intelligent, experienced people, will accept an unaccompanied test drive of a car without a moment's thought about the insurance ramifications. I have negotiated motor trade insurance for some twenty years, and in all that time every single policy I have come across, or entered into, only covers for test drives where the driver is accompanied by a driver covered under the policy. Unaccompanied test drives would not be insured. Full stop.
If you are offered an unaccompanied test drive, ask to see a proof of insurance. Your own insurance is highly unlikely to cover you. (It may cover for third party or road risks but will not cover you for the car you are driving).
Car salesmen will take the easy option, especially if you are visiting the dealer at fish and chip time! Don't risk it !!! Who was covering you in the Hyundai thunderbird? My guess.....You.
Whenever I've had an unaccompanied test drive I've been asked to provide my details for the dealer's insurers as well as indemnity for RTA offences but I confess I didn't demand to see the insurance certificate - even Vauxhall demanded the same information for a 48 hour test drive.
My insurance does cover "driving other vehicles" but I've never been asked for evidence of it before taking a test drive.
The paperwork for courtesy car "hire" is equally brief.
If there's really a major issue in the car industry perhaps you should refer it to the Insurance Ombudsman.
Edited by RT on 22/01/2013 at 20:43
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What always amazes me is that car buyers, like thunderbird above, who appear to be intelligent, experienced people, will accept an unaccompanied test drive of a car without a moment's thought about the insurance ramifications.
When I am offerered a test drive why should I start to think about insurance. the car is a demonstrator and should be insured as such. The garage would be a a very sticky wicket if they were proven to be handing out cars for people to drive that were uninsurred. Every person test driving would be in the same position as myself.
But leaseman don't panic, most policys now cover you to drive a car loaned to you by a garage for 5 days on the same terms as your own car.
But the garage asked for copies of our driving licences for insurance purposes before the drive so you are totally wron, at least in our case.
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There are many extremely knowledgeable contributors to the HJ Forum, who are able to share their wisdom with those who seek help. My posting is factual, based on almost 40 years experience in the motor trade up to the present day. Your posting, thunderbird, is speculative, and I see nothing in your facts (what facts?) or speculative deductions, that demonstrate that I am wrong. Perhaps you could provide some hard evidence that confirms your condemnation.
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There are many extremely knowledgeable contributors to the HJ Forum, who are able to share their wisdom with those who seek help. My posting is factual, based on almost 40 years experience in the motor trade up to the present day. Your posting, thunderbird, is speculative, and I see nothing in your facts (what facts?) or speculative deductions, that demonstrate that I am wrong. Perhaps you could provide some hard evidence that confirms your condemnation.
If this are as you describe, then millions of people are driving illegally each year - as an insider you really must report this to the authorities.
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What is there to report RT? Many drivers take to the roads every day with limited insurance cover, or none at all. The authorities are very aware.
I am merely advising readers of the potential pitfalls of taking an unaccompanied test drive, of which they were possibly unaware. It is up to motor traders to ensure that they remain within the terms of their insurance policy, but it would be a foolish person who believes that every member of their staff always will.
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What is there to report RT? Many drivers take to the roads every day with limited insurance cover, or none at all. The authorities are very aware.
I am merely advising readers of the potential pitfalls of taking an unaccompanied test drive, of which they were possibly unaware. It is up to motor traders to ensure that they remain within the terms of their insurance policy, but it would be a foolish person who believes that every member of their staff always will.
So how much of an issue is it?
If it's a major issue then report it - if it's a minor issue at the level that nothing is perfect, then let's move on.
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SWMBO called into local VW dealer the day after they opened in the new year genuinely interested in buying a new Polo. Salesman (or whoever he was pretending to be) looked up from his computer screen (probably disturbed at the sudden blast of cold air when the showroom door opened). SWMBO announced she was interested in a new Polo and how much would he knock off for cash. He shhok his head and said 'nothing' ....... so she turned and walked away and he got back to the comfort of his screen and cosy showroom.
Drving away SWMBO glanced again at the huge, and no doubt hugely expensive neon sign imploring customers to call in 'because we're ready to deal'........
The end.
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Dont make anything for cash at a franchised dealer these days, cash is definately not king! That doesnt excuse his behaviour and I would want the deal, but a finance deal pays way way better...where I worked it was £75 we got for a cash deal on a Polo with no extra bits, hardly worth the time all the subsequent prep and paperwork takes frankly.
Also and while it was clearly not the case for you, we always tended to find that people who come in, want a discounted cash price before even sitting in the car, driving it or asking any questions is just shopping around, maybe they will buy at some point but maybe a deal will walk in that will pay more money...harsh but true, salesmen are there to make money ultimately.
As regards insurance, as long as we had a photocopy of the drivers license the driver was comprehensively insured for unaccompanied test drives, as they would be for a courtesy car loan etc.
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Galad,
If that was what the salesman did ,it was badly done .
He should have said that the cars were in short supply ,it's a new model ,just think how much it will be worth in three years when you want to sell it on .
The true cost of a car is what is it worth when you part with it .Large discounts when you buy always mean a poor return when you sell it on .
When I worked for Mercedes 25 years ago ,list price on new was the only price .
They were worth so much after 3 years that they depreciated less in cash terms than a sierra . It meant that once you had paid the higher initial price for your first 190 ,you could change every three years for less cash than it would cost to change a sierra .Business leasing rates were less on a 190 than a sierra !
Happier days ,
Discounting is why the car trade doesn't make money .A local family vauxhall dealer has just been sold to a dealer group with 100 outlets .Once the large dealer groups take over discounts will be a thing of the past .The reason why the family sold out ,turnover £8 million ,profit £100,000 .its not enough profit to sustain a business or allow it to expand .
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Spot on tony g, the dealer margins on Hyundais for example are tiny compared to VW where I worked before, discounts are often simply impossible for a private buyer so it comes down to selling the car more than throwing the profit away which is what Ford people and the like can do...but come resale time the bargain basement Fords, Vauxhalls and especially Citroens are worthless in percentage terms.
Makes trading up much harder, is the customer better off, not in my opinion. You are right though, and I wish I had been with Merc in the times of W124, W126 etc, still some of my favourite cars.
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There are many extremely knowledgeable contributors to the HJ Forum, who are able to share their wisdom with those who seek help. My posting is factual, based on almost 40 years experience in the motor trade up to the present day. Your posting, thunderbird, is speculative, and I see nothing in your facts (what facts?) or speculative deductions, that demonstrate that I am wrong. Perhaps you could provide some hard evidence that confirms your condemnation.
I am not even going to discuss it any more other than saying do you honestly think a gaarge selling new cars would send me out on the road uninsurred in their £18000 demonstrator. They never asked to see my insurance and I did not have to sign anything, all they wanted was a copy of mine and the wifes driving licences for "their insurance". If I was stopped by the Police or had an accident they would have some serious explaining to do if the car was not insurred. Legally i would be fine because my own insurance covers me so why should I worry.
End of stupid argument.
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