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I do not think you have any realistic prospect of getting the purchase price refunded when you have 3 1/2 years use of the car, however unsatisfactory.
Why is the warranty you have extended to April 2013 not helping you right now?.
You say that the gearbox is going to be £5K + labour. Who is it suggested as going to pay this and why is not a warranty matter (see above)?
You mention selling and incurring "Thousands of pounds of costs". Are these garage bills or legal costs.or losses incurred on the selling price?
Have you at any point taken legal advice, CAB or solicitor?
I have great sympathy for your position and am not trying to be confrontational - I am just asking questions to clarify my understanding of the position!
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The £5k is the cost of replacing the gearbox as quoted by my VW dealer who carried out the work last year.
The future costs I mention relate to the cost of replacing the gear box, should VW fail to fix the problem permanently this time, and yet another gearbox be required once the warranty expires in April.
We haven't taken advice yet. I was hoping Honest John would give his opinion on this point - that's the reason why we are using the site.
From our perspective, I can't get my head round how we can be expected to run the risk of incurring a repeat occurance of gear box replacement in the future and once the car is out of warranty, when VW readily acknowledge they have no idea why the problem occurs and have never fixed it. Remember, this issue has been present from day 1.
Clearly, there is either an insurmountable technical issue with 2009 GT 1.4 tsi's when mated to the DSG transmission, or the early cars were sold to customers with insufficient technical development. Hence my assertion (made to VW repeatedly over the last 3.5 uears) that the car is, and always has been, unfit for purpose. These points have been put to VW before. Their failure to agree with us thus far does, in no way, prove they are legally correct.
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Three and a half years of problems and you are only now asking for advice, and then advice on an internet forum and not proper legal advice, does seem a little strange.
My advice would be to get the car fixed and get rid of it. Legal action is very stressful and expensive.
Is there any reason for the long wait?
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We have not waited. I have lost count of the times VW have had the car in for investigations or remedial work which does not resolve the issue. As I write this reply the car is inside my local VW dealership as they attempt to find out what is wrong. It's been there since last Thursday!
Why should we take the financial loss for a problem which has been there from day 1?
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You say, in your latest post "The £5k is the cost of replacing the gearbox as quoted by my VW dealer who carried out the work last year. " If you have an extended warrranty to April this year why is the cost bothering you? It seems to be a warranty matter. I do follow your reasoning re losses on selling the car though.
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It's quite simply this. The car has already had 2 gearboxes. It may now need another. Thus far the costs have been met under the warranty. Who pays when the car is out of warranty?? Answer - not me!! Why? Because the car is unfit for purpose and has been since new. Clearly, it is not my fault that the gearbox(es) keep failing. VW openly admit that there is something wrong, and they have repeatesly failed to fix the problem or even identify why the problem is happening.
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I was talking about taking independent advice from either CAB, Trading Standards or a solicitor.
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I was after advice from Honest John, who I do follow via the Telegraph. I thought, wrongly as it turns out, that as this is his site he may actually read the forums and actually respond. How silly of me!!
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HJ does read the forums - he also responds to many emails sent to him at the Telegraph, but, as he says in the DT site can't respond to each and every one. By and large the advice given on this site is good, up to you if you follow it but as ever with free advice it's a case of Caveat Emptor .
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So the reality is there is no advice here. Just opinions from Joe Public mugging each other off!! A waste of an hour of life. Does Honest John actually exist or is he some kind of mythical Keyser Sose character?
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Yes he does exist. I have met him! There is a wealth of information here including about 40 FAQs, his column in the DT, and the expert opinion of a number of people who post here one to note is DVD on legal matters. However, nothing you can find here is likely to be better than a face to face with a solicitor/ You car is not out of warranty - yet. I may havge posted this already www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/consumer-rights/
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Makeman
Slagging the site off will do you no good, people on here have genuinely tried to help you BUT there is no substitute for getting propper legal advice form a solicitor. A website will not get your money back, only dealing with the seller and possibly a solicitor/court will do that.
One word of advice from me, (but I don't expect you will want to know since i am not legally qualified) don't go to Citizens Advice or whatever they call themselves, they will either give you duff info or send you to a solicitor.
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So the reality is there is no advice here. Just opinions from Joe Public mugging each other off!! A waste of an hour of life. Does Honest John actually exist or is he some kind of mythical Keyser Sose character?
Not sure what you think the whole point of a "forum" is ?
You had three choices:- ask HJ directly (not via the forum) for free advice - ask for free advice on a forum knowing it's full of Joe Public who don't all have the same opinion - or pay for proper advice.
Don't ever criticise free advice - otherwise next time it'll get shoved where the sun don't shine.
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Sorry mate but I don't call "Go and see a solicitor" advice, when posted on the legal section of a Forum!!
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Not an expert on civil litigation but to me it would seem, despite suffering and waiting too long, you may still have some rights. The Sale of Goods Act also include services so the the last GB put in hasn't been up to scratch.
In your position I would seek a face to face with Trading Standards/Solicitor to establish just what my rights are and who is responsible Garage and or VW.
Adverse publicity is not liked by manufacturers so if you can get the media involved it may put pressure on VW to assist more?????
dvd
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Any sympathy I had for the OP evapourated when he started not only moaning about the car and dealer but the good advice given.
File it under "muppet".
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DVD - Thanks very much for this. It's the first constructive point(s) made thus far. Thanks again!!
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DVD was right as always but he was not the first person to suggest that a solicitor was the way forward.
Edited by Armitage Shanks {p} on 10/01/2013 at 15:54
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Sorry mate but I don't call "Go and see a solicitor" advice, when posted on the legal section of a Forum!!
You can't expect free advice you could rely on, from anonymous laymen without legal liability insurance. You might be pointed in the right direction such as the information elsewhere on this site re the application of SOGA, but yours is not exactly a "cut and dried" case. Given the length of time the vehicle has been with you, it's a moot point whether you have accepted the goods. One way forward could be to get the whole picture laid out for a practising lawyer to give an opinion on the chances of success, and on what further information might be needed. For example, if said solicitor advised you to get an engineers report to identify exactly why the fault recurs, assuming it is the same cause. Or as has already been commented, get the repair carried out by the dealer/VAG, then sell it on. Good luck.
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For someone who said: A waste of an hour of life, they do seem to be wasting time that could be usefully spent elsewhere. Perhaps with a legal expert?
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You're right my friend. From this moment on I shall not waste any more time on this. Been there and done it now, learned nothing from the majority of the contributors like your good self, who seem to opinion nothing constructive or legally informed other than "go and see a lawyer". Thanks for that golden nugget Einstein!! I just can't understand how I hadn't thought of that before I came on here. From your regular contributions, I assume you are another wise cracking critic of other well intentioned first time users like me who thought they might be tapping into a rich seam of motor related legal experience by coming on here. So go ahead and waste some more of your life, add nothing constructive to what is supposed to be a legal debate, other than a sarky statement of the bleeding obvious, and have the last word - go on you know you just can't resist! Meantime I have had a mature and expert response from HJ himself so job's a good 'un.
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Perhaps you would care to "Close the cicrcle" at tell us what HJ Advised?
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What rocks do these fukwits crawl from under. Lets hope they crawl back soon.
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"...have the last word - go on you know you just can't resist!"
I suspect BT won't bother, but I must say I'm amazed at your attitude.
Just because the bit of the forum is headed "Legal matters", that doesn't mean it's full of qualified legal people who, as you have probably gathered, tend to value their time very highly indeed.
When someone says you should see a solicitor that means they are out of their depth and in their opinion you need expert advice. That is a perfectly reasonable reponse.
The fact that you keep on making complaining posts, becoming more and more bitter and sarcastic, suggests you are losing your sense of proportion and that, despite your assertion to the contrary, you have time to waste.
Edited by FP on 10/01/2013 at 18:53
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At least we know to ignore this oik if he comes back.
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"Meantime I have had a mature and expert response from HJ himself so job's a good 'un."
Considering that Honest John is not a legal expert I would expect he has told the OP to see a Solicitor.
Which is what most of the posters on this site told the OP to do.
But what do we know.
Edited by skidpan on 11/01/2013 at 10:32
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Leaving aside the juvenile outbursts of the op .
We're still left with the interesting question ,does the dealer have any responsibility for the mechanical failings of the op,s car beyond the period of the warranty .
It seems clear to me that the dealer has no responsibility for any losses incurred by the op ,if he decides to sell the car earlier than he would have preferred .Simply to avoid large repair bills should the car fail again .Thats his choice .
In addition I don't believe that the dealer has any continuing responsibility beyond the normal three year manufacturers warranty .The dealer has done his job, he's completed necessary repairs during the warranty period .The alternative to this would be nonsense , in that if the op decided to keep his car ten years ,the dealer would have to repair the replacement gearbox during that period if it failed to last three years ,and go on replacing it as long as the op owned it .
We all know that the SOGA is subjective ,it's never an absolute and is subject to opinion and interpretation .
I believe that if it ever came to a court case the decision would go in favour of the dealer ,simply because he repaired the car during the warranty period .
The op should move on ,he's been unfortunate ,sell the car and put it down to experience .
I'm just pleased I didn't sell him a car ,he comes across as unrealistic and pedantic .
Tony g
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A very sensible reply.
I do hope the OP doesn't read it!
;>)
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Car now fettled. New clutch fitted this time. That's a total of £5k+ repairs undertaken by VW and a warranty extension. In addition, various other goodwill has also been secured from VW UK as and when we decide to sell the car.
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Hi makeman.
Thankyou for updating the forum ,that sounds like a good result by any standards .
I realise that your earlier posts on the forum didn't result in the answers that you would have preferred .Its worth bearing in mind that a legal forum only attracts opinions or past experiences .Inevitably some opinions are ludicrous ,but many will give a different perspective ,perhaps some that you had not considered .
So do join in on future posts ,the more view points we have the better a forum becomes .Ive worked in the car trade for more than thirty years and I've still gained a lot from the forum .
Regards
Tony g
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