Turbo Petrol - jamie745

Been looking about at a different sort of car and like the look of the 2.5T Mondeo but for some reason the turbo bit puts me off.

A turbo diesel sounds right, turbos should be on diesel engines but for some reason turbo petrol doesn't sound right.

What are they like? Thoughts?

Turbo Petrol - countryroads

My personal favourite, lots of torque and power, when off boost efficient, and in a modern car at least, longer lasting than a diesel in most cases.

I have a 1.8T Audi A4 and love the smooth and responsive way it delivers power.

Turbo Petrol - sandy56

You are joking right?

Turbo petrols have been around for a LONG time. Try a few and make up your own mind.

Turbo Petrol - jamie745

No you misunderstand what I'm saying. I expect a diesel to need a turbo because it would be outrun by a horse otherwise. When the turbo comes in you get this jolt of power and you're off. That's acceptable in a tractor-engined car but I just think it'd make the power delivery feel a bit crude in a petrol.

Turbo Petrol - RT

It's to do with power delivery - high torque low down in the rev range gives good "driveability" and puts a smile on most peoples faces.

A big V8 petrol does the job but costs an arm and leg to run - a small capacity turbo petrol does the job, is cheap to build and cheap to run.

Good design and control systems ensure there's virtually no turbo-lag.

Turbo Petrol - unthrottled

Turbos on diesels-no brainer.

Turbos on petrols-not quite as clear cut.

Lag free turbos are a myth-any feedback loop has lag. You notice it a bit more on a free-revving petrol than a diesel. The kicker is that, unless properly bypassed, they boost under cruise conditions. So you're pumping air against a closed throttle, which gives you the same pumping loss as a larger naturally aspirated engine. My brother's Focus ST has a Volvo 2.5 5 pot. At 70 mph, it sits at 0.25-0.3 bar boost. Partly why he only averages 20mpg from it. In all other aspects, it is a beautiful engine.

Turbo Petrol - craig-pd130

What RT said.

I had a Volvo V40 2.0T for three years, it was the light-pressure turbo variant of the T4. Excellent power delivery, developed max torque from 2,000 - 5,000rpm on the spec sheet but still had a useful little extra kick when the revcounter passed 3,500.

On the road it went very well and always felt strong from pretty much any revs in any gear, making it very user-friendly. You could just stick it in 4th and use the torque at anything above 30mph and still make easy, brisk progress, or you could keep it on the boil above 3,500rpm if you really wanted to go.

The one downside was its lack of economy and small fuel tank -- the best I ever saw was about 33mpg, and the worst was low 20s.

Edited by craig-pd130 on 06/01/2013 at 21:25

Turbo Petrol - iFocus

I run a 1.4TSI Golf 122, and it power delivery is something that sold it to me. I used to have a 1.9 TDI PD Skoda that pulled and the Golf just pulls too.

Its revvy and torquey, so the best of both worlds in terms of usability. I found some petrol engines to lack torque but be revvy having come from a diesel.

You'd just have to try one and see if you like it, like turbo diesels they won't be for everyone...

Turbo Petrol - MikeTorque

What size car are you looking for jamie ?
Any preference on fuel consumption ?

There are some very smooth 1.6 turbo petrol engines around these days that offer smooth power & torque delivery, refinement and economy. A direct fuel injection turbo engine is significantly more responsive and frugal compared with an indirect fuel injection turbo engine.

Turbo Petrol - jamie745

Well I'm considering something Mondeo sized and as for fuel consumption I'm not too bothered, the S-Type does 26-29 day to day and the 3.0 V6 is a superb engine in every way. If I'm going to change car I want it to be a different sort of car, so a more sporty turbo Ford with a manual gearbox would be an interesting proposition.

unthrottled may not be a fan of my car but surely even he can admit the V6 is a very good engine and has no need for a turbo of any description. Can a smaller, turbocharged engine be as good or is it a case of pretty frocks on goats?

Still a goat.

Turbo Petrol - unthrottled

unthrottled may not be a fan of my car but surely even he can admit the V6 is a very good engine and has no need for a turbo of any description

The car isn't entirely my cup of tea, but I certainly don't dislike it. The motor is very good.

Turbo Petrol - corax

Well I'm considering something Mondeo sized and as for fuel consumption I'm not too bothered, the S-Type does 26-29 day to day and the 3.0 V6 is a superb engine in every way. If I'm going to change car I want it to be a different sort of car, so a more sporty turbo Ford with a manual gearbox would be an interesting proposition.

Is that V6 the same one used in the Mondeo ST220?

If you want to try a turbo petrol, have a look at a Volvo S60 T5 (Fantastic seats and interior) or Focus ST. That five cylinder engine is a stonking unit.

You might miss rear wheel drive though.

Another option is a Saab 93 2.8t, or Vectra VXR. Seriously fast and a great sounding engine.

Turbo Petrol - unthrottled

A direct fuel injection turbo engine is significantly more responsive and frugal compared with an indirect fuel injection turbo engine.

Really?

Turbo Petrol - Cyd

Years ago I had a 3.5l V8 SD1 with 220hp and enough torque to pull down a house. Back then, I was a big fan of 'cubes'. Turbo petrol cars tended to be very "laggy" and rather wild (Saab 99T and Metro Turbo come to mind).

More recently I owned a Rover 800 Vitesse Sport for 11 years. it was superb. 200PS at 6000rpm and 240Nm flat from 2500 to 5000. Coupled to a close ratio 'box and with low-ish overall gearing, it was a potent B road machine. I regretted never having it tuned though.

Now I have a Saab 93 Aero 2.0T. As standard, 210hp at 5500 and 300Nm from 2500 to 5000 it was very smooth and strong. Only really off song going round corners and small roundabouts in third.
I cured that though with a Maptun stage 1 tune. Now it has 255hp at 5000, and 360Nm from 2250 to 4500. Going round those same roundabouts is no longer a problem in third. It also comes on song very quickly and goes like the clappers without having to rev the nuts off it. Even with more long legged gearing than the Rover had, it'll fly from 30-90 in 10.5 secs. And I love driving it - the smile cuts my head off sometimes. Those lorries with caravans stuck behind them on the Fosse way are no longer a problem!!!

Basically, as the technology and engineering improved I was able to change my view. I'm a fan!!

Turbo Petrol - MikeTorque

What budget to buy do you have available ?

Used, new or newly new Mondeo ?

New car performance/economy data below :
http://www.ford.co.uk/Cars/Mondeo/Performance-and-efficiency

Turbo Petrol - gordonbennet

Well Jamie i will add another dimension to this if you really are contemplating change, remember i run a still lovely '96 MB E320 coupe, one of the last W124 coupes made, like your Jaguar it has a 6 pot engine but a 3.2 inline 6, mated to a 4 speed simple point and squirt proper auto gearbox and most importantly driving the correct wheels, the rear ones.

In my MB and your Jag you just point it where you want to go step on the throttle and the car simply surges away in either ultra smooth gentle waft mode or in the same ultra smooth way but constant seamless hurtling acceleration depending on far down the throttle has been pushed, all controllable all easy and no drama or fuss.

Now i've seen fast FWD cars being driven quickly and have done so myself, and without fail they disappoint in that they are always crude, constantly scrabbling to find grip unless the road is bone dry, and causing snatching torque steer type effect as one wheel slips then another causing the traction system to constantly cut in, simply horrible.

My sons mate had a lot of tuning carried out to his Cupra, damned thing didn't stop snatching and fighting for grip till it got up to 4th gear, that on Goodyears not Chinese ditchfinders, wouldn't have given you a thankyou for it.

Then you have the usual FWD gearbox problem, either it will be a manual which is fine except you have to drive the damned thing constantly, not too bad with a tourquey NA engine with enough swept volume but add a turbo to the mix and its frustrating beyond endurance having to work around lag and lack of low rev pull, then all of a sudden the power unleashes and off we go, fighting the scrabbling tyres on the way, and 3 seconds later need another gear, just like Mondeo Diesels then, what a palarva compared to your present car for any sort of driving, yes some of the new smaller engines being supercharged and turbocharged might be more flexible but at what cost in long term durability i wonder.

Most of them might have some sort of fancy semi auto gearbox of some sort if thats what you want, but chances are it will be a jerky piece of satans design work that will spend half its time being reflashed by your local dealer and be throughly unpleasant when it is working.

MB seem to have got the smaller blown petrol engine sussed by supercharging as in C180/200k, some rather tastier things they have offered too over the years, such as the C32 AMG (also found in SLK body), with the 3.2 V6 gently supercharged and producing 354bhp mated to a proper auto box for motoring heaven.

Course you might be heading to AWD, but i suspect cutting the VED costs is going to be one of the criteria which will rule out Subarus or anything else with proper engines regd after Mar 06.

Edited by gordonbennet on 06/01/2013 at 23:21

Turbo Petrol - Avant

If you like the noise of a six you'll be disappointed with anything with only four. Try a V6 Mondeo: it's lighter than your Jaguar so may feel faster, but you might miss the ambience of the Jaguar.

Turbo Petrol - jamie745

Well with the Jaguar there's not much noise unless you really push it hard which is the beauty of it. You end up going awfully quickly without really realising it. Contrast that to say a little 206 which is goes slowly but feels quick as it makes a song and dance about it.

The ambience is a good point. When I close the door I get that feeling of total seclusion from the rest of the world, which is good.

I don't like the rest of the world.

Turbo Petrol - Happy Blue!

What no-one has mentioned about the obvious engine for Jamie (the Volvo T5 which also sits in various Fords) is the magnificent burble. Whilst V6s have a lovely banshee wail, as my old Subaru Outback had (there's an idea for you Jamie!), standing outside a car with the T5 on song is just lovely. It reminds me of a throaty V8 but with greater response.

Turbo Petrol - RT

For many people, any 5-cyl engine sounds off-note, out of tune - gruff is an appropriate description of the Volvo unit.

Subaru's burble nicely because they're out of balance, the exhaust not the crankshaft!, but sadly gone on later non-turbo versions because they changed to an equal-length headers, spaghetti-like around the engine bay.

American V8s burble for the same reason, out of balance exhausts - they really need cross-overs if it's a single-plane crank.

Turbo Petrol - unthrottled

I wouldn't describe to 5 pot as gruff-it has even firing intervals and the crank assembly is reasonably well balanced-way better than a four I was surprised at how smooth it is. It's just the consumption...

Turbo Petrol - MikeTorque

I've driven a few Focus ST 2.5 turbo cars but was never completely won over by them. I haven't driven a Mondeo 2.5T so the only thing I can really compare is the engine, and boy is that 2.5T engine thirsty, the trip computer sits under 20mpg on typical 15-30 miles type trips, it will do around 30mpg driven gently on a longer run. The engine is reasonable smooth but Ford manipulated the noise into the drivers compartment and it sounds artificial, the exhaust note similarly artificial, I would prefer the simple sweetness of the original engine note.

The direct injection engines currently available offer a superior engine responsiveness, refinement and economy compared to the indirect injection 2.5T so they are well worth looking at.

Turbo Petrol - unthrottled


The direct injection engines currently available offer a superior engine responsiveness, refinement and economy compared to the indirect injection 2.5T so they are well worth looking at.

Twin scroll turbos,electronic wastegate control and downsizing give the responsiveness and improved economy. Direct injection is a gimmick-handy for the manufacturers to improve their HC/CO emissions which can be a problem on turbo engines. As far as the driver is concerned, there's a bit more knock resistence, but that's it. Lots of potential problems with direct injection. The Japs haven't taken to it like the Europeans and I can see why. 70 years of not living up to expectations.

Turbo Petrol - Avant

Keep the Jaguar, Jamie, until it starts getting unreliable, or you become desperate for a convertible or need an estate. Unless you have a lot of money to spend, anything else will be a let-down.

Turbo Petrol - Sofa Spud

QUOTE:..""I wouldn't describe to 5 pot as gruff-it has even firing intervals and the crank assembly is reasonably well balanced-way better than a four I was surprised at how smooth it is. It's just the consumption...""

I suppose a 5-cylinder engine is OK if you can live with something that sounds like a misfiring six!