Pot Holes - Whats the excuse this time? - fredthefifth

Last few years its been snow, ice, frost etc, well whats the excuse this time? And I'm not talkin about areas where roads may have been affected by flooding, land slip etc, they are everywhere.

Pot Holes - Whats the excuse this time? - RT

Last few years its been snow, ice, frost etc, well whats the excuse this time? And I'm not talkin about areas where roads may have been affected by flooding, land slip etc, they are everywhere.

We all moan when taxation, in any form, goes up and we all moan when taxation doesn't go up, forcing cuts in maintenance services.

Spending more on road maintenance would eliminate pot holes but either taxes would have to go up to pay for it - or some other essential service would have to be cut.

Pot Holes - Whats the excuse this time? - Collos25

Think yourself lucky you should drive in the east of Germany then you will see some roads that need repairing.

Pot Holes - Whats the excuse this time? - Graham567

Come to Blackpool.Here we are having all the roads replaced.The amount of smooth roads are now out weighing the bad ones.

Blackpool is regenerating and the road system is part of it.

The amount of demolition and new buildings going up is unbelievable.

Bout time i would say.

Pot Holes - Whats the excuse this time? - Engineer Andy

Where's the money coming from to spend on such expensive projects? I haven't heard of huge corresponding cuts in other areas of spending for municipal authorities to pay for such works, especially as it would be tough for councils to borrow money at the moment.

Saying that, my two local county councils (Hertfordshire and Cambridgeshire) apparently have enough money to resurface/patch some roads (tarmac) then put another layer of chippings on top (even over the perfectly good tarmac surface). Herts CC tend to spend money on two things on highways, potholes (they're scared of having to pay out compensation for damage to vehicles once a pothole etc has been reported) and street lights, but blimmin' all else.

Pot Holes - Whats the excuse this time? - Graham567

They have borrowed 30 million pounds to resurface the roads in Blackpool.They say that once they are all done then the yearly maintainance money won't be needed and can be spent on repaying the loan.It also cuts out people claiming for pothole damage.

The whole thing is called Project 30.

I am very much in favour of this approach and don't know why other councils don't adopt it.

I can see the new slogan for Blackpool.

Come to Blackpool for a smooth ride then go on the Big One which isn't.

Pot Holes - Whats the excuse this time? - RT
I am very much in favour of this approach and don't know why other councils don't adopt it.

Because sensible people realise that you can't borrow your way out of a borrowing crisis - and boy, are we in a borrowing crisis! The fact the Europeans are even worse and the US fiscal cliff looks just as bad is no consolation.

Pot Holes - Whats the excuse this time? - Engineer Andy
I am very much in favour of this approach and don't know why other councils don't adopt it.

Because sensible people realise that you can't borrow your way out of a borrowing crisis - and boy, are we in a borrowing crisis! The fact the Europeans are even worse and the US fiscal cliff looks just as bad is no consolation.

I agree RT - too many councils are either cutting projects or work (but retaining staff) or (occasionally) putting up taxes to continue to fund their profilgant ways of the 1997-2010 era, when they should be looking at a root and branch review of all council services, starting from what is essential through to what is "nice to have", then seeing what resources (including staff) are actually needed to achieve this to determine whether certain services are affordable or not.

All too often councils (of all hues) concentrate on retaining staff rather than providing a decent service at the minimum of expense, which would include changing working practices which often date back to the 1960's and 70's. Their first reaction is not look at why something is needed, but to "how can we keep people occupied/employed". What's amazing is that so many financial experts always tell people writing in to them in newspapers to "pay down their loans" (especially those on the highest rates) asap and not to take out new ones to pay others off, yet governments do exactly that as a default measure...

Pot Holes - Whats the excuse this time? - galileo

Some local authorities (no name, no shaming!) spend vast amounts of cash on installing unnecessary extra traffic lights, 50 yard long cycle lanes, road humps and widened pavements causing 'pinch points' and congestion.

I have seen a road hump installed 4 feet from a large pot hole, which would have been a better use of tarmac.

Pot Holes - Whats the excuse this time? - Engineer Andy

Some local authorities (no name, no shaming!) spend vast amounts of cash on installing unnecessary extra traffic lights, 50 yard long cycle lanes, road humps and widened pavements causing 'pinch points' and congestion.

I have seen a road hump installed 4 feet from a large pot hole, which would have been a better use of tarmac.

That's because they initially employ engineers and other experts (normally at great expense [not the fees - I rarely see that - its the time spent on projects that's the killer, which is in the vast majority of cases down the project manager from the council and the other council staff involved sticking their oar in]) then change their mind several times or go with their own stupid plan (often having to cut it back becuase they spent too much money making the decision) which suits no-one. They often prefer to have a piece of rubbish installed/built that's on-budget/time as a result than either nothing at all or a decent installation that overall breaks the budget (which shines a light on their bad management of the project). A sad reality of working on government projects - both at national and local level (in all areas).

Local highways authorities to me have spent £000's on stupid schemes that never work (anybody could see they were a waste of money, and some even dangerous) or require lots of regular maintenance when simplier schemes would be much better. Oh how I wish someone would really get a grip on how national and localgovernment spends our money...

Pot Holes - Whats the excuse this time? - christo

Engineer Andy - such a detailed replyi and so informative from a fellow Engineer, I would be interested to know where you have gained such knowledge and which Area you have have worked in.......

Regards Christo............

Pot Holes - Whats the excuse this time? - Engineer Andy

Engineer Andy - such a detailed replyi and so informative from a fellow Engineer, I would be interested to know where you have gained such knowledge and which Area you have have worked in.......

Regards Christo............

I've worked for many years (as a Building Services Engineer in the private sector) with colleagues who do highways project work for councils and government, as well as many projects myself for the public sector, experiences (and accounts from colleagues) of both have lead me to my conclusions.

I also regularly deal with my local and county council on highways issues as I'm one of those people who regularly report faults (potholes, lighting, signs, etc) and take a keen interest in the state of the road network (at least in the areas surrounding where I live/work/travel generally) as a commuter (when I'm in work!) and as a cyclist. There also happens to be several RTAs in my area which are attributed to poor road layout/design, but which are rarely looked at for "monetary" reasons, yet I often notice that certain pet council projects (even in Tory areas) still get the go-ahead (e.g. spending tens of thousands to better light a cemetary or "freshen up" a swimming pool reception [neither needed]!).

The local Cambridge Guided Busway, though popular, cost an absolute fortune (going so far over budget that Cambs CC couldn't afford most of the stations, only getting platforms and portacabins instead) and nearly bankrupting the council - the daft thing was that for all the flashy technology, they could've got by with a far cheaper dedicated road [no "guided" sections and fancy technology that goes with it] with barriers to stop other vehicles using the roads.

In my view so much money each year is lost by delays caused by poorly designed/maintained roads (whether by accidents, damage caused to vehicles from pothole etc or confusing/poorly laid-out signage, etc)

Pot Holes - Whats the excuse this time? - Collos25

Totally agree Andy I have spent many hours producing concept BMS comms networks for both local and national governments only for them to choose something else that did not work and went over budget so I should imagine its the same in Highways.The press in the UK make out consultants are making pots of money whereas in reality it is as you say. .

Pot Holes - Whats the excuse this time? - fredthefifth
Well the questions been hijacked into a discussion about major road projects but at least RT did touch on an explanation in the first reply. Don't completely agreed that taxes need to increase, just spend the road tax on the roads and fix the roads properly.
Pot Holes - Whats the excuse this time? - RT
Don't completely agreed that taxes need to increase, just spend the road tax on the roads and fix the roads properly.

It's the same thing - if VED is spent on the roads it can't also support general revenue for things like health, education, defence, etc.

Pot Holes - Whats the excuse this time? - galileo
Don't completely agreed that taxes need to increase, just spend the road tax on the roads and fix the roads properly.

It's the same thing - if VED is spent on the roads it can't also support general revenue for things like health, education, defence, etc.

And 'politically correct' schemes, funding the EU bureacrats' gravy train.

The list of local and national government expenditures which do not benefit the UK taxpayer is depressingly lengthy.

No doubt backroomers can draw up their own lists.

Pot Holes - Whats the excuse this time? - jamie745

Spending more on road maintenance would eliminate pot holes but either taxes would have to go up to pay for it - or some other essential service would have to be cut.

Wrong. Over the decades we've paid thousands of times over to have these roads maintained but our lovely elected officials have spent our money on rubbish instead. It's not our fault they've done that and it's not up to us to plug the gap for them.

Taxes would go up 'to pay for it' but only 5% of that extra tax would get to where they say it will. It's not the fault of Starbucks for not paying tax they don't have to pay, it's not the fault of dirty rich people for legally moving their money abroad and it's not Margaret Thatchers fault either. Amazing how people who weren't even born when she was PM still level the blame for the world ills at someone removed from office 23 years ago.

The fact is councils waste money. You don't have to go far to find horrific examples of moneywasting by councils. One recently spent £50million on moving it's own council office to a new building, rather than spend a fraction of that on refurbishment. Another spent £3million on a Park-and-ride which has been used by less than 60 people in it's first year. Another near where I live spent over £4million on replacing a hundred yards of perfectly good road with a 'shared space.'

Basildon Council have spent over £20million on moving some vermin from a camp site onto the road adjacent to said camp site. Others have been spending £2million on skating rinks and the like. Councils are full of self serving vested interests which spend the occasional pound on its populace to return them to the trough on voting day. Councils can well afford slashed budgets and the Government haven't gone nearly far enough.

Pot Holes - Whats the excuse this time? - Sofa Spud

There simply isn't the money to keep up with the pace at which roads are deteriorating and nor is there likley to be in the foreseeable future. My impression is that the average condition of road surfaces has deteriorated of late, with the bad weather possibly accelerating the process.

Pot Holes - Whats the excuse this time? - jamie745

We're just paying the price for neglecting the road network for decades. Only in Britain does the Government conclude the best approach to manage extra traffic - byproduct of a growing economy - is to leave the 1960s road network as it was in the 1960s and when it's full then it's full, we'll just tax everyone off them.

Pot Holes - Whats the excuse this time? - Engineer Andy

I rad somewhere (possibly in the Telegraph) that many councils (especially rural ones) had 200-300 YEARS of roads maintenance backlogs BEFORE the 2008 crash, mainly because they "diverted" funds away from those budgets into worthless projects such as multi-million pound new or refursbished Council Offices, paying their staff huge slary increases (mostly managers) but without any productivity increases or reductions in perks (many have 30-35 days holiday pa and USE the annual sick leave "entitlement" as extra holiday days, plus all the dodgy stuff that goes on as well).

My parents' road for example, even though its a very well used road (a short-cut round the town centre at peak hours) hasn't been resurfaced for 25 years, just patched occasionally (and very badly). The best thing to do is for EVERYONE to report potholes, gashes in the road and uneven surfaces (caused by poor repairs or other roadworks) to BOTH the council (officially, e.g. via their website - get a ref. number) and the various non-council websites that pass on such details to councils, just in case your council-reported fault "disappears" from their system (this has happened on several occasions for me).

Pot Holes - Whats the excuse this time? - Bromptonaut

Returning from the epic drift........

There was a bloke on 5live a few minutes before 7 last night explaining it.

No need for the road to be underwater or subject to landslips. The persistent heavy rain seeps into cracks and it's pumping action over time breaks up the surface. Waterlogging of sub-surface has similar effect.

Round our way (S Northants) the scouring action of run off from waterlogged fields has scoured out some whoppers. Another has been created where a drain overflows, unable to swallow the volume flowing down the road.

Edited by Bromptonaut on 03/01/2013 at 11:44

Pot Holes - Whats the excuse this time? - fredthefifth

Thanks Bromptonaut, I knew there would be one - an excuse that is!!

Pot Holes - Whats the excuse this time? - fredthefifth
Might explain things a bit, though I'm not claiming that the DM will have the facts right!!


http://tinyurl.com/ax4sucv


Pot Holes - Whats the excuse this time? - jamie745

Hardly news. It's been common knowledge for years that councils prefer doing that.

Pot Holes - Whats the excuse this time? - A4 Man

My journey to work is only 20 miles and on major roads and the amount of Pot holes is getting out of hand. Most of the journey is spent avoiding holes in the ground! Is there a online petition anywhere to get the government to sort this?