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I was appalled to read this report on the BBC News website. It seems like a sure way to kill off a good idea.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20328860
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I can't believe Admiral would that much data about people having acciednts who have attended the courses. Do you have to tell your insurer that you've been on one?
Next they'll be penalising drivers who pick their nose, or who drink coffee instaed of tea? Where will it all end? How they laughably say that they haven't made money out of car insurance for years is nonsense! No-one runs a huge business at a loss for that long without serious financial consequences...it also implies that they're subsideising the "losses" by fleecing us in other areas.
Are there any business left (well, apart from John Lewis) who AREN'T ripping us off? What a world we live in.
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It's an old story that BBC have rejigged.
Admiral started loading for SAC three years ago so have that amount of data.
They're the only Insurer / group of comp[anies that load for it
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Soon they'll be penalising people for actually driving......oh, wait......
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"The insurance group says its statistics show that drivers who have attended a course, pose a higher risk."
Somebody is telling porkies here:- Either the insurance co's are talking through their a*se and just using this as an excuse to hike premiums, using bent statistics to justify their position-or the don't-speed-cos-you-might-run-over-a-kid brigade who promote the SAC's are talking out of their a*se.
It's getting to the point where insurance companies need to be legally curbed as to what really constitutes a bigger risk-apart from to their profits of course.
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I don't see the problem.
If you were caught doing 37 in a 30 limit, you pose the same statistical risk irrespective of whether you were given 3 penalty points or let off with attending a retired policemen's auxillary pension course.
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Consider these two comments
1) By sitting the SAC you avoid having 3 points placed on your licence. Hopefully you won't offend again, but mistakes happen (and car bulbs fail, tyres go bald etc) so avoding 3 points does keep the total of 12 further away.
2) Shop around for insurance, and take the lowest quote. So if Admiral group loads the premium because you have attended a SAC then give your business to someone else. It's a competative market, use the system to your advantage.
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Exactly, Smileyman - just don't use an insurer who looks for any excuse to load the premium. It ignores the likelihood that someone who has been on a speed awareness course might have learnt something and will take fewer risks in future.
OK, some won't, but nor do all the other drivers who have so far got away with it.
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The rule about shopping around always applies.
But I don't think we can accuse Admiral of foul play. The decision to penalise someone with 3 points but not to penalise someone who attended a SAC is arbitrary and unfair. It's not the points on the licence that represent the risk, it is the behaviour that led to the points that represent the risk. In this case the behaviour is the same. Admiral have spotetd a loophole and are using this to refine their risk analysis. This might result in lower premiums for people who fit a different risk profile.
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The Idea is that by doing a course you are more likely to drive more carefully and have a better understanding of what speeding can do. It helps to improve the relationship between thee police and drivers rather than foster resentment with just a fine. IMHO it's a good idea.
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The Idea is that by doing a course you are more likely to drive more carefully and have a better understanding of what speeding can do.
Yeah, yeah, that's the pretext that we all pay lip service to. But the fact is that most of us (myself included) make a conscious decision to speed or are simply oblivious to the speed limi through lack of concentration.
A course is not going to make any long term difference to driving style. If I was offered a choice between 3 points and a SAC, I'd take the SAC-but simply to avoid the insurance premium loading incurred by 3 points. SAC are nothing more than a scam to bolster the income of retired policemen. It's a racket and the fact that Admiral have called time on it is no bad thing.
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I'm a SAC trainer. I'm not a retired copper or anything else for that matter, I am a road safety professional working to reduce road crash casualties.
Lazy cynism is easy, the will to change is a lot tougher as you have clearly demonstrated.
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Given that people can pass their driving test at 17 , and never have to do any further training, ever, it is quite possible that attending the courses does have an effect on improving driving and observational skills. I'd certainly like to think so.
I haven't seen the evidence one way or the other, though anecdotal comments from friends who have attended was that it did make them drive rather more considerately and safely afterwards.
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I don't see the problem.
If you were caught doing 37 in a 30 limit, you pose the same statistical risk irrespective of whether you were given 3 penalty points or let off with attending a retired policemen's auxillary pension course.
SFAIK one wouldn't be offered a SAC for doing 37 in a 30.
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Neither of the people who gave my course were retired policemen!
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My two were serving policeman and an attached civilian,.....attached to the police rather than one individual.
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I didnt notice it on my elephant renewal form?
the answer is simple, dont use admiral or any of the other names it operates under.
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I didnt notice it on my elephant renewal form?
the answer is simple, dont use admiral or any of the other names it operates under.
Like - elephant !!!
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Pertinent question (I think!): Do Admiral at the same time offer discounts to drivers who voluntarily improve their driving skills, e.g. by taking one of the advanced tests or (just imagine!) take an SAC course on their own initiative? Presumably a driver can sign up to such a course if there is a place available, and upon paying the requisite fee?
(Why am I deeply cynical about the manoeuvrings of insurance companies?)
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Pertinent question (I think!): Do Admiral at the same time offer discounts to drivers who voluntarily improve their driving skills, e.g. by taking one of the advanced tests
I'm not hear to defend any Insurance company, but Yes, I get extra discount for having passed the IAM Advanced test.
On the other hand, Admiral and Elephant are just brands of the same insurance company.
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Just looking at this from the other side for a moment... A driver who is caught speeding - who may have been "unlucky", or else may have been a habitual speeder and finally got caught (a real 35 mph most likely shows 40 on the speedo...), is, under our current rules, going to get clobbered by three things: a fine; points on the licence and an insurance hike. It seems grossly unfair on the face of it that two drivers in two different counties are both clocked at 35 and face a different raft of penalties: why should driver "A" be fined and lose points and suffer increased insurance, whilst driver "B" attends a SAC (most likely costing around the same as driver A's fine) and have no points to show for it, and (more important) no insurance hike?
Insurers assess risks according to their own data, so shopping around and forcing insurers to be competitive should keep premiums competitive. It does, however, seem unfair to inflict discriminatory measures. Arguably, ALL counties should offer SACs as an alternative to a 35 mph speeding "conviction", or else none of them. I can't see how 35 mph in a street in Macclesfield is inherently more of a public menace than 35 mph in a street in Sevenoaks.
Another aspect is to what extent insurance companies should be entitled to access information on SAC attendees (Data Protection, Human Rights, blah blah blah...), but failure to disclose all material facts (a massive catch-all if Iever I heard of one!) is always risky.
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Pertinent question (I think!): Do Admiral at the same time offer discounts to drivers who voluntarily improve their driving skills, e.g. by taking one of the advanced tests
I'm not hear to defend any Insurance company, but Yes, I get extra discount for having passed the IAM Advanced test.
On the other hand, Admiral and Elephant are just brands of the same insurance company.
I put my details through twice for an online quote, first without an IAM pass and the second with.
The result? A massive £10 discount both for a safe UK postcode.
The insurance companies are a bunch of mealy-mouthed fraudsters that smile in your face and then p*** in your pocket.
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It's always been a rip off world, this country was made by people ripping each other off and a great deal of violence as well. Wouldn't it be nice if Admiral said that those who have done a speed awareeness course are now safer drivers and have shown a community spirit therefore they will lower premiums for these drivers....I will dream on.
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A young bloke I know has paid £2,000 or so for insurance....companies not making money? I'd like to see their accounts. Trains, electric, gas, petrol and diesel, food etc all going one way...up. Essentials for many so we are easy targets.
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I've never bought the idea insurance firms aren't making money. They're hardly selling what they sell out of their charitable hearts as a public service are they?
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drivers can only take one SAC every year, so regular speeders will get caught and suffer the consequences .. however why should a driver who mistakenly speeds be punished 2 differnt ways for 2 or 3 years or more, or insurance companies consider they present a greater insurance risk because of just the one transgression.
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drivers can only take one SAC every year, so regular speeders will get caught and suffer the consequences .
I think you will find that having taken an SAC any further speeding over the next 3 years automatically gets 3 pointys and the fine, no SAC option.
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you ass
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I have been driving for nearly 40 years. I have never been stopped or done for speeding and never had one point on my license. I am not some goody goody but I try to stick to speed limits, especially the lower ones. However, it is very easy to drift over these sometimes as most people know. I have taken various driving courses and done some track days over my driving lifetime so I class myself as a pretty reasonable driver overall. I would be a bit gutted to receive 3 points now for drifting over the limit by a few mph and would be happy to take the course instead. However, if my insurance company upped my premium after this, consdiering my record and experience, they would immediately become my ex insurance company and the boss would be getting a serious letter from me.
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I have been driving for nearly 40 years. I have never been stopped or done for speeding and never had one point on my license. I am not some goody goody but I try to stick to speed limits, especially the lower ones. However, it is very easy to drift over these sometimes as most people know. I have taken various driving courses and done some track days over my driving lifetime so I class myself as a pretty reasonable driver overall. I would be a bit gutted to receive 3 points now for drifting over the limit by a few mph and would be happy to take the course instead. However, if my insurance company upped my premium after this, consdiering my record and experience, they would immediately become my ex insurance company and the boss would be getting a serious letter from me.
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I have been driving for nearly 40 years. I have never been stopped or done for speeding and never had one point on my license. I am not some goody goody but I try to stick to speed limits, especially the lower ones. However, it is very easy to drift over these sometimes as most people know. I have taken various driving courses and done some track days over my driving lifetime so I class myself as a pretty reasonable driver overall. I would be a bit gutted to receive 3 points now for drifting over the limit by a few mph and would be happy to take the course instead. However, if my insurance company upped my premium after this, consdiering my record and experience, they would immediately become my ex insurance company and the boss would be getting a serious letter from me.
The insurance companies to watch out for are all those in the Admiral Group i.e. Admiral, Elephant, Diamond, Gladiator, and Bell. These insurers will give very competitive quotes according to the 'apparently' independent Confused.com who are also owned by the Admiral Group, interesting or what?
I too work hard to stay safe on the roads and my efforts are rewarded by insurers. Research shows that SACs improve the driver attitudes that go on to improve driving standards, therefore drivers who take SACs should be rewarded not penalised. Unfortunately the Admiral Group are choosing to ignore this research. Maybe it’s not in their short term interests to not penalise drivers whenever they can.
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if youve been on a speed awareness course and dont tell your insurance, how would they know if you have or havnet been on a course , its not listed on your licence, so i take it that the insurance company would never know youve been on a course ???
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I have been driving for nearly 40 years.
I managed forty five without even a parking fine then one moments misjudgement and SAC here I come. Thing is common sense has gone, thats my gripe. If the police had given me a telling off and be more careful sort of approach it would have been more effective than an SAC. However these days it's all about money and PC.
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40 years?
Ptah. A mere stripling.
Anything under 45years driving does not count! :-)
PS no points (so far) eitehr...
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common sense has gone, thats my gripe. If the police had given me a telling off and be more careful sort of approach it would have been more effective than an SAC
Problem with that is the 21 year old next door to you who's paying £4million a year for insurance will know full well that if he was caught making a 'misjudgement' then the proverbial ton of bricks would rain down with blood soaked vengeance. So why shouldn't it be the case with you?
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