2001 Peugeot 306 2.0l hdi - Hot starting fault

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Tue 7 Aug 2012 13:39
2001 Peugeot 306 2.0l hdi - Hot starting fault - mervynclarke

I have a 2001 Peugeot 306 hdi that has developed a starting fault.
It will start when cold but turns over more than it used to.
When it is hot it is much worse some times not starting at all.
I can get it to start with a little squirt of brake cleaner and then
it runs with no problem untill i try to start it again.
What is really strange is that I changed the fuel filter housing and
it was fine for a few days then slowly developed the fault again.
I have also changed the cam sensor.
Mervyn

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Tue 7 Aug 2012 15:17
2001 Peugeot 306 2.0l hdi - Hot starting fault - matt1086
They have a glow plug double relay if this sticks it will not start they about 20 quid from a scrappy. Regards matt
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Wed 8 Aug 2012 12:43
2001 Peugeot 306 2.0l hdi - Hot starting fault - mervynclarke

Matt

Thank's for the help but it starts better when cold only really bad when hot.

Do they use the glow plugs when hot I was led to beleive that the 306 hdi

only used them when really cold.Can you tell me where it is.

Mervyn

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Wed 8 Aug 2012 12:47
2001 Peugeot 306 2.0l hdi - Hot starting fault - Peter.N.

Hdi's will normally start without the glowplugs, I suspect you have a fuel rail pressure issue, it can drop when hot due to a worn pump or injector/s, you need to get a diagnostic reader on there and check the pressure, it could be due to a faulty sensor but a test would help you determine that.

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Wed 8 Aug 2012 15:53
2001 Peugeot 306 2.0l hdi - Hot starting fault - matt1086
Hi how many hdi's have you worked on then as I have worked on a few and if that relay sticks it won't start it is a double relay black and green in the engine bay should be attached to the battery box it and it can happen when it gets hot it may or may not give a sign on the dash that says anti pollution fault it also does this when it is a glow plug issue I did a 2.0 2001 hdi wouldn't start I checked the output as soon as the ignition was switched on and it gave out 5v so I changed it still didn't start bench tested all glow plugs one was down changed it, it started.

So this relay has an live from the battery, live to glow plugs and earths through glow plugs, pin 1 off relay connects to a multi plug then which connects to pin51, 53,33,49 on the ecu! Pin3 connects to the signal line from speed sensor to maf sensor which immediately connects to pin 69 on the ecu! From a multi plug pin 4,5 connect directly to the ecu! on pin 88,67 so it is has a lot to do with how the vechle runs not just for a cold start!

If it where injectors engine light would stay on and it would smoke an run like a box of frogs if the pump was worn it would loose power, the engine light would come on when read it would have a fault like fuel rail pressure low and go into limp mode. on these it's normally the pump in the back that wears and if you take your fuel filter out and have metallic deposits in the bottom of it, it means that the pump in the tank is worn.

For these hdi I always check the relay without bothering reading code mutimeter check because if pin 1345 do not energise or make full contact no glow means no go ecu won't let it start!!

Check pin 3 and earth should have voltage between 11-14v, check pin 1and earth should be 0 ohms resistance.

Hope this helps you if you like post email I will send you schematics of your engine management system. But the relay is the most suspect it gets hot then sticks cools down then it's ok. Check alternator output isn't too high as this normally burns them out over time.



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Wed 8 Aug 2012 16:17
2001 Peugeot 306 2.0l hdi - Hot starting fault - matt1086
Oh forgot to mention when all this happens it may give a fault saying third piston cut off solenoid and that's the ecu not letting it start that's if you bother with a code read first and you will struggle to get a reader to read it unless you have lexia 3 or better like launch diagun or snap on etc as most readers are only diesel compliant after 2004.

Also if the engine management light does not come on with key ignition then it's hot its down to the bsi which controls the immobiliser had that one before as well there is a way around it though but it ain't for the faint of hearts lol!

Edited by matt1086 on 08/08/2012 at 16:24

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Wed 8 Aug 2012 18:11
2001 Peugeot 306 2.0l hdi - Hot starting fault - Peter.N.

I have two Hdi's and they both start the instant you turn the key, there is no way the glow plugs have warmed up in less than a second.

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Wed 8 Aug 2012 21:59
2001 Peugeot 306 2.0l hdi - Hot starting fault - matt1086
Well I'm happy for you. But that doesn't mean a thing and common rail diesels will start on the button but with a can bus system operating them the ecu will sense somethings wrong and won't allow it to start on this car. You find your relay unplug it see if it starts. Also if you have ever bench tested a glow plug you will be supprised how fast they warm up. I'm not on here to argue mate I've been a mechanic four a long time an this guy needs advice for the cheapest way to fix his car This is a free!!! and quick test for him before he goes spending money on diagnostic checks.

The best way for him to test it is when it has the problem mind!

Please if your gunna give advice be constuctive an not critasize others

Best regards matt.

Edited by matt1086 on 08/08/2012 at 22:02

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Sat 17 Nov 2012 10:31
2001 Peugeot 306 2.0l hdi - Hot starting fault - NeilZ85

hi matt. you mentioned about the engine light not comming on with the key in and so wont start. could you give me some pointers about tests and the bsi problem, as ive got an unlocked ecu and my light only comes on when cold - if i turn my car off and try to start again , no light and wont start

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Wed 8 Aug 2012 22:18
2001 Peugeot 306 2.0l hdi - Hot starting fault - hardway

No offense meant Matt but my experience is the opposite,almost every one on my books has at least one shot glow plug,how can I,in all honesty,recommend replacement?

Every one starts fine,hot or cold.

But I'm with you on code reading,live data is a must in my book,you really need to see the fuel rail pressure under these conditions.

If this is not on the cards then a leak back test on the injectors would be my start point,I've come across a few of these that have this fault,and it's very specific,at a certain temperature one or more of the injectors starts really leaking back,so much that to be sure I made up a tester with 4 small juice bottles and pipes to the injectors.

One car would start and run at idle speed for a predictable time,just over 15 min's if I recall,then one would leak back enough to fill the bottle,around 250 ml in seconds,I found out about this when I ran a test and came back to find the engine stalled and the bottle almost full,re -tested this while I watched and at the same time live fuel pressure tumbled,when it hit 180 bar idle speed faltered and then stalled.

Cured by new injector.

Haven't had one in since but I think I wll disconnect the fuel rail pressure and see if that alters the conditions,suspect it will.

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Wed 8 Aug 2012 22:35
2001 Peugeot 306 2.0l hdi - Hot starting fault - matt1086
Yeah totally understand but if that relay doesn't energise it won't start honestly because it works along side the maf sensor and vehicle speed sensor with voltage reference signals that relay back to the ecu if this doesn't happen it won't start. 3rd piston cut off solenoid kicks in. You shouldn't need to do a leak back test on these injectors it will throw a fault straight away but I suppose if you don't have the diagnostic capability then this would be surfice. I will up load the schematics for all to see.

Regards matt
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Wed 8 Aug 2012 22:43
2001 Peugeot 306 2.0l hdi - Hot starting fault - matt1086

ive tried uploadin it wont if anyone wants it i can email it but it will be on paint as i only have car related stuff on my computer lol.

Edited by matt1086 on 08/08/2012 at 22:45

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Thu 9 Aug 2012 12:43
2001 Peugeot 306 2.0l hdi - Hot starting fault - mervynclarke

Cannot find a Black and Green relay anywhere. But on the back of the engine ecu

there is a black box with two Green relays are these any thing to do the glow plugs.

Mervyn

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Thu 9 Aug 2012 12:48
2001 Peugeot 306 2.0l hdi - Hot starting fault - mervynclarke

Cannot find a Black and Green relay anywhere. But on the back of the engine ecu

there is a black box with two Green relays are these any thing to do the glow plugs.

Mervyn

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Thu 9 Aug 2012 18:55
2001 Peugeot 306 2.0l hdi - Hot starting fault - matt1086

hi no its a black relay bout 2inch wide 3.5inch long find the live from the glow plug there's only one and it should go to this if you search this item number on ebay it will show you what it is straight away 140782408260 blue writing and green underneath


matt

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Thu 9 Aug 2012 19:00
2001 Peugeot 306 2.0l hdi - Hot starting fault - matt1086

it is located behing the relay control module behind the battery top right of the engine bay

matt

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Fri 10 Aug 2012 12:35
2001 Peugeot 306 2.0l hdi - Hot starting fault - Peter.N.

Apologies, I didn't realise that failure of the glow plug relay would upset the electronics and cause non starting, I'm fairly new to Hdi's and have never experienced that problem. My main field of experience has been with XUD engines.

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Fri 10 Aug 2012 14:42
2001 Peugeot 306 2.0l hdi - Hot starting fault - matt1086
No it's totally fine, so did you unplug yours. If you have that fault then it will normally come up with anti pollution fault on the dash but not always. this is where it's not fully energising to make full contact the, as the glow plugs will go on and off as your drive about to maintain the highest economy that's why it works with the maf and vehicle speed sensor. No harm done pal every day is a school day or so they say.
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Mon 13 Aug 2012 12:33
2001 Peugeot 306 2.0l hdi - Hot starting fault - mervynclarke

I have found the glow plug relay it is buried behind the engine ECU. Checked voltage on pin Three which is ok it never drops below 12.5 volts also checked the earth on pin One also good.

The only thing I found is that there is no output to the glow plugs. But as the engine is hot this seems right and I put a false feed to the glow plugs and it made no difference.

I also disconnected the glow plug relay and it made no difference to the fault, the engine will start but poorly and once started runs with no problem even with the relay disconnected.

I think this elliminates the glow plug relay from being the problem.

Any other ideas.

Mervyn

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Sat 17 Nov 2012 11:46
2001 Peugeot 306 2.0l hdi - Hot starting fault - madf

"I have a 2001 Peugeot 306 hdi that has developed a starting fault.

It will start when cold but turns over more than it used to.
When it is hot it is much worse some times not starting at all."

Before starting, try pumping the fuel button used to bleed the fuel system of air.

If it then starts, you have an air leak. Or a leak in a fuel line...Or a leak round the fuel filter.

Edited by madf on 17/11/2012 at 11:46

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