Not quite broke yet! - Justine Greening | Motoring discussion | Back Room Forum

Mon 25 Jun 2012 08:23

Not quite broke yet! - Justine Greening - justadriver

Well, like everyone on here, I am sufferring with the high cost of motoring, and cannot escape from it, yes, use the car as little as possible, but our esteemed transport minister says that motorists have to reduce the deficit! talk about the goose and golden egg. I do not fill up as often so estimate a 25% reduction in fuel duties for HMG, Stopped buying anything absolutely non essential o the high street, will not nuy a new car, doubt if i will even buy a "newish" car.

If "They" keep on hammering all of us so much and we all stp spending, look at the shop closures on the high street. One national chain of car dealers has closed sites in cardiff, another in sheffield, I know and accept that we have to pay taxes, and cannot get out of it unless we earm lots and lots and have "trusts" like some of our politicians, but surely this will soon reach critical mass and the only way to cut costs will be to savagely cut more from the budget and repeat the vicious downward spiral !

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Mon 25 Jun 2012 10:01

Not quite broke yet! - Justine Greening - gordonbennet

The last breaths of a bankrupt, both morally and financially, nation when they can only tax the dwindling number of nett contributors till they break, there is nowhere else to get the money from apart from their own kind and that'll never happen in a million lifetimes.

Its all over, get used to it, like other countries who got sucked in we haven't a hope in hell of paying back our debts unless the mistakes of the last 20 years are reversed, and no one has the guts to do it.

As for driving, all you can do is play the system as well as you can according to their* rules, get an older petrol car preferably less than 1500cc already converted to LPG and run it as long as you can.

Alternatively get an old suitable Diesel worth buttons and run it on chip fat, when it dies, which it will, throw it away and get another.

*we the electorate (not me) voted for them and continue to do so, presumably then most turkeys are happy that Christmas is almost here, we as a nation have the governments we deserve.

As for 'cuts', have there actually been any? if so do point them out and exactly how much has been saved, and whilst computing work out how much bribing other wealthy countries and waging totally pointless wars costs in pure monetary terms.

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Mon 25 Jun 2012 10:35

Not quite broke yet! - Justine Greening - Armitage Shanks {p}

Never mind cuts! Reducing wastage and controlling expenditure would help too!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12297139

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Mon 25 Jun 2012 10:50

Not quite broke yet! - Justine Greening - oldroverboy

The last breaths of a bankrupt, both morally and financially, nation when they can only tax the dwindling number of nett contributors till they break.

Well, I can tell you this one is broke, no pension yet, but told i must pay more for utilities to help the poor who can't (won't pay). cut down on everything possible, and yes the pips are squeaking too!

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Mon 25 Jun 2012 16:33

Not quite broke yet! - Justine Greening - jamie745

Considering the Conservative Party is supposed to believe in a low tax economy whereby the less money taken at first results in more money later, they certainly aren't looking like it.

I've been saying on here for well over a year that if you keep smashing the motorist then eventually the Government will receive nothing. Shops are closing because nobody can spend anything, less fuel is being sold because the Government keep making it more expensive as they chase revenue downwards, more people are seeing less point in going to work because they get nothing out of it.

You can't tax your way out of this problem. It won't work. I give Britain ten years before it's a desolate, deserted economic wasteland and a total basketcase which should serve as a warning to all future generations around the World.

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Mon 25 Jun 2012 17:54

Not quite broke yet! - Justine Greening - Ethan Edwards

I'm still wondering how the Conservatives are supposed to be in power yet we seem to be stuck with this rudderless u-turning tax and spend socialist rabble. How did that happen?

Call me Dave couldn't even win an election outright against one of the most deeply unpopular regimes in living memory led by a man who was clearly utterly insane and/ or a complete sociopath.

Jamie...I think your an optimist mate. i've been 'oop North' recently and down to Plymouth and I don't think it'll be a wasteland in ten years...I reckon three.

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Mon 25 Jun 2012 18:44

Not quite broke yet! - Justine Greening - jamie745

I'm still wondering how the Conservatives are supposed to be in power yet we seem to be stuck with this rudderless u-turning tax and spend socialist rabble. How did that happen?

Call me Dave couldn't even win an election outright against one of the most deeply unpopular regimes in living memory led by a man who was clearly utterly insane and/ or a complete sociopath.

Perhaps there's a link between the two. Dave couldn't beat a hugely unpopular Labour Party which might suggest the country largely does still want the 'socalist rabble' so the Tories have to conform in some way?

Jamie...I think your an optimist mate. i've been 'oop North' recently and down to Plymouth and I don't think it'll be a wasteland in ten years...I reckon three.

There's parts of the North which have only kept ticking over due to heavy state spending, when that ends then it'll be gone entirely.

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Mon 25 Jun 2012 19:21

Not quite broke yet! - Justine Greening - quizman

For crying out load cheer up. We are and will be better off than many other countries. I am cross with this government, but they are a teeny bit better than the last lot.

My pressent car does 45mpg, when I had a petrol Sierra it did 23mpg so I ain't too worried. I could get a car which does 60mpg and so could you. But I hope they do not increase the duty by the 3p.

It will all come right in the end, then there will be another depression. That's just the way it goes!

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Mon 25 Jun 2012 20:07

Not quite broke yet! - Justine Greening - Bobbin Threadbare

For crying out load cheer up. We are and will be better off than many other countries.

Hear, hear! It's hard to whinge when there are still countries where access to clean water is scarce and people can't read.

Also, based on current calcs and usage my newly acquired MX-5 is getting 40mpg. I cannot whinge about that at all!

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Mon 25 Jun 2012 20:16

Not quite broke yet! - Justine Greening - madf

Those who whinge appear to know no history. After WW2, UK debt was >200% of GDP.. far worse than today.

People want instant miracles: fact of life is it takes hard work and spending cuts to reduce deficits.

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Mon 25 Jun 2012 20:48

Not quite broke yet! - Justine Greening - sandy56

Our problems have only just started. It is going to get much worse..

LABOUR government- that nice Mr (nutcase) Blair and the smiling madman Brown have left us deep in the XXXX!

Our UK debt is still increasing and will keep increasing for more years yet. The politicians just love to spend OUR money on their big (crap) ideas, eg High Speed Rail. TWO aircraft carriers- I could go on.

Buy a shotgun, you will probably need it soon.

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Mon 25 Jun 2012 20:57

Not quite broke yet! - Justine Greening - madf

Our problems have only just started. It is going to get much worse..

LABOUR government- that nice Mr (nutcase) Blair and the smiling madman Brown have left us deep in the XXXX!

Our UK debt is still increasing and will keep increasing for more years yet. The politicians just love to spend OUR money on their big (crap) ideas, eg High Speed Rail. TWO aircraft carriers- I could go on.

Buy a shotgun, you will probably need it soon.

OTT ..

We could solve the deficit tomorrow if we wanted to .. We will probably have no choice in the matter.

Make the NHS partly insurance backed - and see claims go down.

SLash benefits - especially for those who have never contributed in their lives and who are not long term sick/disablbed.

Stop wars.

Halve the number of MPs..

All those tax avoidabce schemes are tested on the basis of " Does it form a real prupose or is it just tax avoidance"? And penal final for avoidance.

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Tue 26 Jun 2012 10:04

Not quite broke yet! - Justine Greening - balleballe

Our problems have only just started. It is going to get much worse..

LABOUR government- that nice Mr (nutcase) Blair and the smiling madman Brown have left us deep in the XXXX!

Our UK debt is still increasing and will keep increasing for more years yet. The politicians just love to spend OUR money on their big (crap) ideas, eg High Speed Rail. TWO aircraft carriers- I could go on.

Buy a shotgun, you will probably need it soon.

OTT ..

We could solve the deficit tomorrow if we wanted to .. We will probably have no choice in the matter.

Make the NHS partly insurance backed - and see claims go down.

SLash benefits - especially for those who have never contributed in their lives and who are not long term sick/disablbed.

Stop wars.

Halve the number of MPs..

All those tax avoidabce schemes are tested on the basis of " Does it form a real prupose or is it just tax avoidance"? And penal final for avoidance.

I agree totally - slash benefits for the lazy twits who do nothing or the teenage girl who couldnt keep her legs closed

Stop wars! Or perhaps stop funding Israel - they are rich enough as it is!

MP's are fairly useless - so cut them down

That will solve most of the problem

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Mon 25 Jun 2012 21:01

Not quite broke yet! - Justine Greening - focussed

"After WW2, UK debt was >200% of GDP.. far worse than today."

Ahh-but following on from WW2, we knew how to survive on Woolton Pie and dried egg(so I'm told) that's the way to survive in a recession.

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Mon 25 Jun 2012 21:11

Not quite broke yet! - Justine Greening - gordonbennet

"After WW2, UK debt was >200% of GDP.. far worse than today."

Ahh-but following on from WW2, we knew how to survive on Woolton Pie and dried egg(so I'm told) that's the way to survive in a recession.

Working taxpayers also weren't keeping half the country, indeed half the world, in benefits, subsidies eg tax credits, housing, motability, free dentistry and NHS for those who've never paid a penny in etc etc.

Not forgetting a whole army of pen pushers to make sure the benefit culture (i have other terms for them) get every penny they are 'entitled' too.....meanwhile genuine pensioners who fought polticians' wars and worked and contributed all their lives die cold hungry and lonely unable to provide for themselves in their dotage, and being who they are too proud to claim....you couldn't make it up.

edit...and please never forget the hundreds of thousands of our good men and women lying buried in foreign soil, having given their lives to keep this country free, for what, for traitorous politicians to give it away.

Edited by gordonbennet on 25/06/2012 at 21:14

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Mon 25 Jun 2012 21:21

Not quite broke yet! - Justine Greening - justadriver

My original point was "They" are taxing me off the road. "They" are also increasing my utility bills for carbon offsetting, lunatic wind farms people who are not able to pay. we don't go out anymore, no vat on our restaurant/pub bills, we have found we eat better at home anyway, but things are so bad we are not spending on ANYTHING! as someone said, the pips have squeaked... We knoe we have to cut back, but our glorious leaders and the madmen in Brussels want even more from us, Well sorry boys, nothing left to give and after a lifetime of working in low paid jobs just the state pension to look forward to, ouch!

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Tue 26 Jun 2012 00:07

Not quite broke yet! - Justine Greening - unthrottled

I'm sure Jimmy Carr could do more to help reduce the deficit. Of course, that would involve the treasury actually having to do some work in order to try to disentangle their convoluted tax system riddled with loopholes. Simply adding 3p to fuel duty is so much easier.

Hard up motorists pay 100+% tax, rich comedian pays 2%. It's a...[ahem]...joke.

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Tue 26 Jun 2012 00:31

Not quite broke yet! - Justine Greening - jamie745

Hear, hear! It's hard to whinge when there are still countries where access to clean water is scarce and people can't read.

People in those countries don't pay £600billion a year in tax for their Government's to spunk it up the wall. It's not wrong to expect better than third world conditions when you pay that much.

I'm sure Jimmy Carr could do more to help reduce the deficit. Of course, that would involve the treasury actually having to do some work in order to try to disentangle their convoluted tax system riddled with loopholes.

You can't really blame anybody for taking a legal route to keeping more of their money, especially when the Government will only spend it on rubbish. Of course the scheme Carr himself is in may yet be deemed illegal when it eventually gets to court. We await with interest.

Simply adding 3p to fuel duty is so much easier.

Hard up motorists pay 100+% tax, rich comedian pays 2%. It's a...[ahem]...joke.

You're right there, it is much easier to increase fuel duty than to close off tax loopholes. Increasing fuel tax takes merely a minute, you just key in a different number into a computer.

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Tue 26 Jun 2012 00:26

Not quite broke yet! - Justine Greening - grimep

Shortly after the last election the transport minister said they would "end war on the motorist".

Then again Cameron gave us a "cast iron" guarantee of a referendum on Europe.

We need a 4th choice on the voting forms as the usual 3 are liars and theives.

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Tue 26 Jun 2012 18:48

Not quite broke yet! - Justine Greening - galileo

There are 4th choices - UKIP, for example. would get us out of the EU, instant saving of billions, we'd get our fisheries back, proper lightbulbs, be able to deport criminal and illegal immigrants. With luck they might repeal the ridiculous Act which commits the UK to reduce carbon emissions by 80% in the next few years.

No MP who voted for this Act, by the way, has the faintest idea how it could be achieved. (As it can't without reverting to horsedrawn land transport and stopping aviation except for gliders, no surprise there!)

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Tue 26 Jun 2012 08:20

Not quite broke yet! - Justine Greening - NARU

The most any UK government has ever managed to raise in tax (direct and indirect) is 38% of GDP.

At the time of the election, the UK was spending 49% of GDP on public services, debt interest etc.

That is clearly unsustainable.

Even if they managed to achieve everything the coalition set out to do, they would have reduced spending from 49% to 41%. As they've had to give in on a number of issues, the 41% is not achieveable any more.

The problem has to be solved. We've been living beyond our means for about 30 years.

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Tue 26 Jun 2012 11:19

Not quite broke yet! - Justine Greening - Hamsafar

There is no genuine difference between politcal parties.

There is only the Elite, and all parties are part of their 'toolbox'.

I switched over to a low-tax fuel a few years ago.

Edited by Hamsafar on 26/06/2012 at 11:20

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Tue 26 Jun 2012 14:21

Not quite broke yet! - Justine Greening - Pebble

The lying politicians (is there any other kind?) will tax you to death to fund their wasteful schemes and line their own pockets. Show your disdain by living under the radar as much as possible. Drive the cheapest piece of banger junk you can find. Do anything to keep your money in your pocket as the world economy goes down the drain. Greece 2012=UK/rest of Europe 2022 (or sooner) as the ruling class try to kill us off. Apologies if that's a depressing scenario...but I don't see an alternative.

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Tue 26 Jun 2012 15:57

Not quite broke yet! - Justine Greening - madf

The Government gives motorists lots of options to reduce tax take. ANyone who buys and drives a car less than 7 years old (excluding bangers) which averages less than 40mpg overall has chosen to pay a lot more in tax ... and should cease from complaining.

As for Government spending, no consumer supports a spending cut when it affects them. The prior Government made the tax system much more complex - and then avoided sorting out the abuses so Tony Blair # could become seriously rich and pay little tax.

(Not really of course but that was the effect)

# And Cherie could lecture us all on the merits of supporting the poor

Edited by madf on 26/06/2012 at 16:00

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Tue 26 Jun 2012 16:01

Not quite broke yet! - Justine Greening - jamie745

The Government gives motorists lots of options to reduce tax take. ANyone who buys and drives a car less than 7 years old (excluding bangers) which averages less than 40mpg overall has chosen to pay a lot more in tax ... and should cease from complaining.

Hardly. If nobody bought new cars and everybody bought super economical little old boxes the Government would lose so much money they'd then come after you in those as well. Vegetable oil would get a tax all of its own and that waste chip fat from down the road would be deemed a taxable asset.

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Tue 26 Jun 2012 17:22

Not quite broke yet! - Justine Greening - Bromptonaut

George Osborne has today announced he's postponed the increase. Followed from a Labour motion to put it to a vote.

Ms Greening may feel a bit let down.

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Tue 26 Jun 2012 17:49

Not quite broke yet! - Justine Greening - quizman

There you are, only yesterday I said things would get better. I didn't know how quickly though.

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Tue 26 Jun 2012 17:58

Not quite broke yet! - Justine Greening - justadriver

George Osborne has today announced he's postponed the increase. Followed from a Labour motion to put it to a vote.

Ms Greening may feel a bit let down.

Does anyone think they read this forum?

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Tue 26 Jun 2012 18:08

Not quite broke yet! - Justine Greening - RickyBoy

But only until January mind, which, for many people will surely be a good deal worse timewise (post C*******s), plus our utility bills will undoubtedly be rising again by then, plus...

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Tue 26 Jun 2012 18:49

Not quite broke yet! - Justine Greening - jamie745

Well it's better than a kick in the face, which is a start.

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Tue 26 Jun 2012 19:20

Not quite broke yet! - Justine Greening - sandy56

DOnt worry guys and ladies it will get worse. This is just the beginning..

Our Euro pals (?) have to screw up some more yet and we have to help pay for it.

Our US cousins need another war soon and we will love to help out.

Our many hard working immigrant workers want better pay and housing and NHS so you have to pay more.

The MP's benefits are not enough so we will have to give them more.

They havent started to build the necessary new power stations yet ( they would rather give you uselss wind farms) so the lights WILL go out.

Solution- leave this decreipt pit and move somewhere else. I hear housing is going cheap in Spain, Greece, Italy, Portugal and thats just sunny Europe, never mind Brasil or Argentina- mmm wait a minute arent we getting ready for round 2 with the Argies?

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Wed 27 Jun 2012 01:24

Not quite broke yet! - Justine Greening - focussed

DOnt worry guys and ladies it will get worse. This is just the beginning..

Our Euro pals (?) have to screw up some more yet and we have to help pay for it.

Our US cousins need another war soon and we will love to help out.

Our many hard working immigrant workers want better pay and housing and NHS so you have to pay more.

The MP's benefits are not enough so we will have to give them more.

They havent started to build the necessary new power stations yet ( they would rather give you uselss wind farms) so the lights WILL go out.

Solution- leave this decreipt pit and move somewhere else. I hear housing is going cheap in Spain, Greece, Italy, Portugal and thats just sunny Europe, never mind Brasil or Argentina- mmm wait a minute arent we getting ready for round 2 with the Argies?

We took the decision to leave the UK in 2009 and now my wife and I live in Brittany, France having sold our UK house last year. Kids had left home, we were both able to stop working and retire early. Is it better to live over here than back in the UK?

Well- The upside:-

Cost of road diesel fuel here? At the moment it's coming down, equivalent to about £1.04 / litre. Petrol is dearer at about £1.22 / litre, 75% of cars here are diesel and there are a lot of newish cars about, Toyotas, BMW's, Mercs,Hyundai's, Kia's in addition to the French makes. No toll roads at all in Brittany, which is equivalent in size to East Anglia plus most of the home counties.

France is about 4 times the land area of the UK with about the same population-so it's much less crowded unless you want to live in the cities.

No annual road tax, MOT's every two years after vehicle is four years old, insurance is more expensive though, they don't screw young drivers like in the UK and the rest of us have to pay for it.

We have health top-up insurance which costs about €110 a month for both of us, the state pays for about 70% of our health care which they claim back from the NHS. Our local Polyclinique hospital is brand new, if you have to have an x-ray or similar you make an appointment and arrive 10 minutes early and get dragged in straight away, you pay at the desk and claim some of it back on your insurance and some from the state. This is the way it will end up in the UK, the NHS as it is is on borrowed time. (wife used to work in the NHS)

The downside:-

French customer service(there isn't any) and French bureacracy (there's lots of it). French paint-it's like trying to paint with skim milk, absolute rubbish and about 2 to 3 times the price of UK paint. No decent cheese-yes really, you can laugh, but there are reputed to be 256 varieties of French cheese and not one compares to a decent bit of cheddar-so we get ours sent over from UK!

French bread-yes I know, you are all thinking it's lovely? No it's not- it's stale before you get it home-we make our own with a breadmaker, with Tesco flour.

French terrestrial TV-even the French moan about it-satellite is a must.

French pop music-they still play Johnny Halliday songs!

French banks-they are even worse and more dishonest and incompetant than the UK variety.

The price of service parts and the time it takes for the French to wake up and order them. Don't bother now, get it all from the UK, order monday delivered wednesday, up to 30 kg for £14.

So- is it better over here? Hmmm-probably yes!

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Wed 27 Jun 2012 11:38

Not quite broke yet! - Justine Greening - FP

"France is about 4 times the land area of the UK with about the same population..."

Incorrect on the first point, correct on the second.

UK surface area: 243,610 km²

France ditto: 551,500 km²

So France is a bit more than twice the area of the UK.

(Source: tinyurl.com/6vfnmn6)

UK population 2010: 62,232,000

France ditto: 64,895,000

(Source: tinyurl.com/y2a2l6l)

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Wed 27 Jun 2012 17:22

Not quite broke yet! - Justine Greening - jamie745

If you compare it with just England then France is about 5 times bigger, and keep in mind England holds 84% of the UK's population.

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Wed 27 Jun 2012 17:50

Not quite broke yet! - Justine Greening - madf

If you compare it with just England then France is about 5 times bigger, and keep in mind England holds 84% of the UK's population.

You omitted to add: and 90% of the wealth and most of the intelligent people. Scotland does, however, include the people who have the shortest life spans in the UK and is the home of Andy Murray ,the fried Mars Bar and the biggest football insolvency ever in the UK..

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Wed 27 Jun 2012 20:54

Not quite broke yet! - Justine Greening - Bobbin Threadbare

What about the deep fried battered pizza?

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Wed 27 Jun 2012 21:58

Not quite broke yet! - Justine Greening - focussed

Guys-it's just much bigger, Ok? and there are less people per square thingy than the UK- OK? and I like it here-OK? Don't be pedantic. Oh, and the wine is much cheaper than the UK -so there!

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Wed 27 Jun 2012 23:31

Not quite broke yet! - Justine Greening - FP

I don't need convincing - I even like the bread; the cheese I love. The climate (if you're away from the Channel), the scenery, the lifestyle.

(Whispers) I even like the French.

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