Decided that I'm going to attempt to learn to ride a motorcycle this year once we have the weather for it. So, I've been looking at the range of bikes available to me as a learner.
Honda seem to make a good range of sub-125cc bikes, and they all seem very well put together, but a little pricey for what is going to be a first bike that most probably is going to get dropped more than once or twice.
However (and here's the point of this thread), the Kymco Pulsar caught my eye, mainly as it was 1/2-2/3s of the price of it's competition, seemed very well specified (fuel gauge and gear indicator, don't ya know!), and had a comfortable seating position. It didn't seem as solid as the hondas around it, but still seemed relatively well screwed together.
I hadn't really even heard of Kymco up until now, and wondered if any backroomers have had any experience of this bike that they'd like to share?
So far from trawling the 'net, I've found the official website (just flash and graphics), and some personal reviews from a chap called Floyd Taylor (quite thorough, to be fair), and that's it, so any further information about Kymco (and specifically the pulsar) will be gratefully received.
Thanks in advance
-David L.
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I have never heard of Kymco either.
My inclination would be to stick to a mainstream brand and a popular model. This makes servicing, obtaining spares and selling on much easier.
DO try out various models for riding position comfort. Whereas in a car you can change the seat position to cater for anything from 5 foot nothing to six foot six, on a bike you are basically lumbered with how it comes.
I have found that, with commuting, I need to be able to get my feet down quickly and comfortably. Some models have the footrests just where you ankles naturally come to rest when stopped. Most uncomfortable.
Something like a Honda CG125 would be suitable, so long as it fits you.
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Forgot to add that I would go for secondhand rather than new for a first bike. Buy from a reputable dealer and service it properly and it should last you as long as you want.
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Save your cash for your next bike, and buy the CG125 or something similar to learn on. I can guarantee that you will drop it at some point, so something without too much expensive plastic makes a lot of sense.
As power is restricted, all these race replica 125s are for show only anyway.
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I'm with Brian on this one.
Obscure motorbikes are fine and dandy when they're working but imagine how frustrating it will be when the bike of off the road due to some ridiculous problem (say a broken sprocket) that you cannot get hold of for love nor money. With a Honda it'd mean a quick trip to the local dealer.
I have never heard of Kymco though I have to say they seem to have a professionally done website - my prime concern would be how quickly and where you can source parts from?
Also, the Honda CG125 is a very good and reliable bike if you're not looking for a sporty image. Our local Honda dealer often has cherished ones that are a few years old very cheap - you'd be hard pushed to tell some of them from new.
Good luck!
Dan J
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Why not go for a direct access course, you can get a full licence within a week and then ride any bike you fancy, as long as you can get insurance.
VD5D.
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You want a *second hand* Honda CG125 or Suzuki GS125.
Simple, Cheap, Reliable, Droppable [1], easy to maintain, air cooled.
Post here again if you want specific advice, there's a fair bit of interest in bikes an a fair bit of knowlege too.
[1] I don't hold with the addage that says everyone drops their first bike. Nobody I know has. You still might as well get one that you *can* drop though...
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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FWIW, go for the direct access course, pass your test and get at least a 500cc bike. You will soon get bored with a 125 and they're not realy meant for anything like a long distance. The CBT will cost about £100 and the direct access about £500. Money well spent. For the beginner, it's hard to beat a Honda CB500 which is what a lot of the riding schools use but even by the time you've passed your test you may be looking for something a little more stylish and challenging. I did my DA 2 years ago on a CB500 and bought a Kawasaki W650 when I passed. Looks more like a Bonneville than a Bonneville does and gives me the sort of pleasure you get when you go out on the road after just passing yor driving test. Freedom. Go for it and keep upright.
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Cabsmanuk: I agree 100 per cent with your comments [1]. If you've got the spare cash the DAS is a great 3 day adventure holiday witht the advantage of the class A at the end.
You ought to be able to get it for a lot less than 500 quid too.
*However* you can have a *lot* of fun on a small bike. In this weeks Ride mag a guy claims he enjoys his ride to work on his CG125 as much as his weekend blasts on his R1.
I concur with this view. 600 [2] quid gets you on the road on a CG125. I'd say you'd need at least 2100 [3] quid to get on the road on a big bike and do the DAS.
Most people have 500 odd quid spare. Many don't want to blow 2k on a hobby.
[1] But not with your decision to buy the W650. ;-)
[2] CBT + Bike.
[3] 500 DAS + 300 quid kit + 1200 quid Diversion 600 + 150 quid insurance.
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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Er, has anyone noticed that it's winter out there? THAT'S WHY WE INVENTED CARS!!!!
What are you doing thinking about a bike in this weather?
I dunno...... *twitch* takes me back *twitch, twitch*. I remember my mate's Fizzy..... my AR125.... Ice.....
Funny I don't remember much after that :o)
No Dosh - but then who has?
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Er, has anyone noticed that it's winter out there? THAT'S WHY WE INVENTED CARS!!!!
I agree. Although I had a good blast Friday, and a miserable blast in snow and ice on Sunday. (Why did I go out for fun in -1 degrees)
What are you doing thinking about a bike in this weather?
It'll be dry and warm in summer!
I dunno...... *twitch* takes me back *twitch, twitch*. I remember my mate's Fizzy..... my AR125.... Ice.....
According to the mags the FS1E is a classic now. Can't see it meself. A mate had an AR50 which he made into an AR80 to frustrate the Rozzers.
Those were the days. 40mph was fast, and felt it.
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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We have a regular summer bike night on the quay here in Poole. Last year someone turned up on a fully restored bright yellow FS1E. So what got the crowds and all the cameras going. The Dukes? The Hogs? The Trumpets?
Nah. Not a dry eye when that fizzy went past. The bloke on it was being offered serious money but (sensibly) turned them all down.
Hope he makes it back this summer...... *twitch*, as I'm looking for an AR125 to race him on.
By the by, did nobody at Kawasaki realise how pitifully skinny those tyres were? One of my (richer) mates got in hock for a TZR125 at the time. Made mine look like a bicycle.
No Dosh - but then who has?
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According to the mags the FS1E is a classic now.
Ah, the Yamaha "Fizzy" Had a couple myself. One was the restricted version which I used purely to commute to work on. The other one of them however was "slightly" tuned with a 65cc barrel and piston kit, racing disc valve and the carb jetted. Would top over 70mph with the wind behind you, but put a hill in front of it and you had to cane the living daylights out of it in second gear to get up it. It only did about 35 mpg. Considering it only had a 2 gallon fuel tank, I was filling the thing up every other day. It was fun though as I whooshed past all my mates on their 100cc's - leaving them in a cloud of 2 stroke oil.
A mate had an AR50 which he made into an AR80.
I modified my mates Honda SS50 with parts from a scrapped Honda C70. Engine was basically the same - only needed the barrel, piston and head transplanting onto the SS50. It almost kept up with the Fizzy.
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Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm........
I don't like ice (or snow) on a bike.
Must admit I took a couple of looks outside this morning before deciding to go on two wheels rather than eight (train).
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I don't like ice (or snow) on a bike.
I stayed on gritted roads. (Except 12 foot of frozen stream overflowing across the road from a field!)
Compacted snow and ice on the road itself present the rider with significant dificulties - better to go by car...
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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Thanks to everyone for the replies so far - keep 'em coming. I also value the input to biking in general, not just specific to the Kymco vs Honda. In fact, I'm considering starting a new thread simply about learning to ride a bike so that this thread doesn't get too cluttered. There's certainly lots of useful information here!
(Sorry for the long post, tried to respond to everyone's suggestions in one go)
About DAS, it was considered carefully when I thought about this whole learning to ride thing. It was rejected really for two reasons: Although I'm old enough to do DAS, I'm only 22, so from a few insurance quotes for high capacity bikes, that scared me off. Also, I think that it may be a good idea to find my footing on a low powered bike before being let loose on a faster machine. The 2yr qualification period doesn't bother me too much. Boring, perhaps, but I'll feel safer this way.
Concerns about ice/snow, etc... Agreed agreed, and agreed once more. Whilst I'm learning, I think the term "fair weather biker" may apply :)
Just in case I've given the impression I'm after a sporty race-replica; Not so, I simply liked the pulsar for it's price, and half fairing - agreed, this is something to break easily if/when dropped, but I really don't like the idea of just a headlight to deflect the oncoming wind, etc. Any comments on my worry? - having only ridden a push bike and driven a car, it's just guesswork on my part.
Just for the record on race reps, I tried sitting on the honda NSR125 in the shop - far too small, and when in riding position.. lets just say either I or the tank needed to loose some weight for it to work!
Back to the Kymco/Honda thing: A few people have raised the problem of parts for the kymco - agreed, this is my major worry. I'm going to phone 'round a few of the local dealers and see what they have to say on it. Regarding simplicity, the engine is (apparently) heavily based on that of the Honda CG125. It is certainly air cooled, 4 stroke, and single cylinder - this much I know. In fact, comparing the two bikes, it seems to be something of a Honda copy with the addition of a small fairing and a front disc brake.
Putting the parts issue aside for a moment until I know the local situation, the Kymco would still be the winner for me; I would think the half-fairing on the front offers some protection from the elements (but I'm happy to be corrected on this), improves the overall look of the bike, and I think the gear indicator is a great idea on a learner bike. I would prefer to buy new; which places GBP1945 for Kymco vs GBP1849 for the Honda cg125 (apologies, on a US keyboard, no pound sign). Obviously, second hand, many more Hondas are available, but my preference is to buy new.
Not wishing to appear that I've ignored the advice from those who recommended the CG125 (Toad's arguments in particular are compelling reasons for the s/h CG125), would you still recommend the Honda, given it's reduced equipment, some of which I (perhaps wrongly?) consider to be important, given that it is only GBP100ish between the bikes at new?
Thanks again (and any more general bike advice would be welcomed)
-David L.
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If you fancy the Kymko, go for it. I would guess it is the Pulsar 125 you are looking at if it has a half fairing. Comes out well in mag reviews I have read about it and if you are buying new then presumably you have a dealer nearby who will give you the nescessary back up. In truth, there is little to go wrong with a 125 and provided it isn't a badly produced dog, which does not appear to be the case, there is no reason not to buy it.
As for direct access, forget it. Biking is not like car driving, and the skills that you need to keep you alive are best honed on an easy handling lightweight that has niether the power nor the weight to catch you unawares. Two years is a short chunk out of anybodys life and you can progress to a bigger machine safe in the knowledge that you have had a good grounding.
Cars drivers have minor prangs, bikers end up on their bums.
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Good advice Tom - I'm sure we all know someone who's been killed on a bike !
David - I think you're right about not rushing things. Take it easy, enjoy biking and stay alive ! Good luck.
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It would help if David L gave an indication of what he was going to do with the licence once he'd passed the test (unless he has and I've missed it)
It could be just for pottering around locally, commuting (how far) touring or sporty burn-ups, etc..
The ultimate use might have a bearing on how the licence is obtained.
Why do bike licencie/testing arrangements have to be so much more complicated than for a car?
You can pass a test in a Ka and take out a Ferrari the same day (insurance permitting).
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The reason motorcycle licencing is more restrictive than that for a car is affordability. Not many people have the financial clout to buy a high performance car when they pass their tests, as most new drivers are still teenagers.
But even with a high insurance premium added, a 180mph bike can be yours for less than the price of a base model Fiesta.
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I don't think that is a valid argument.
For a few hundred quid you can kill four or five people in a car, plus a few outside, whereas with a bike you are only likely to kill yourself.
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I really don't like the idea of just a headlight to deflect the oncoming wind, etc. Any comments on my worry?
Unfaired won't be a problem *at all* on a 125. On a bigger bike there's less concensus. I ride a half faired 600 with no problems and have ridden unfaired big bikes and loved them too. Others say you need a fairing. Test ride both.
think the gear indicator is a great idea on a learner bike.
You don't need it but the GS125 has one anyway.
I would prefer to buy new; which places GBP1945 forKymco vs GBP1849 for the Honda cg125 (apologies, on a US keyboard, no pound sign). Obviously, second hand, many more Hondas are available, but my preference is to buy new.
I *strongly* feel you should buy second hand. The value of the bike is gonna drop like a stone from new and they are so robust and simple that the usual advantages of buying new simply don't apply. Plus if you drop it you'll really cry over a new one.
125's are in big demand, but by people with little cash. So although they sell quick they have to be cheap. - For this reason the seem not to depreciate at all after few years. For instance my DT50 was bought new for 1700 quid. It sold 2 years later for 450. My brothers 12 year old MTX50 sold for 450. In other words the value of learners and commuters drop like a stone then become rock solid. You want to buy later when they are rock solid.
Having said all that, wanting a new one is as good a reason as any to buy new and it's your call. Maybe the joy of owning new counteracts the disadvantages. Only you really know.
Not wishing to appear that I've ignored the advice from those who recommended the CG125
Not a problem from anyone here. Advice is freely offered. You don't have to take it! It would be a dull world if we all did the most practical thing anyway. I've personally only ever learned from the mistakes of others - it's human nature. None of us will have ridden the Kymco - it might be the best bike ever and resale values might become rock solid tomorrow.
(Toad's arguments in particular are compellingreasons for the s/h CG125), would you still recommend the Honda, given it's reduced equipment, some of which I (perhaps wrongly?) consider to be important, given that it is only GBP100ish between the bikes at new?
I'm sure both bikes are excellent. However from a resale point of view every biker in the world recomending a 125 commuter will say GS125 and CG125. I doubt anybody goes out looking for a Kymco. So it's possible the Kymco will be overlooked when you come to sell it and be corespondingly harder to sell at a lower price. That said you're gonna take such a hit in the wallet by buying new the difference between makes might not be crucial.
Best of luck whatever you do!
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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"I've personally only ever learned from the mistakes of others"
I meant "I've never learned from the mistakes of others"
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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Nice to see you're still out there Toad - you haven't posted too much lately so hope all's OK.
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...>> Nice to see you're still out there Toad - you haven'tposted too much lately so hope all's OK.
All is well it was just Christmas.
Had 15 days off and although I look in from time to time from home I don't seem to work up enthusiasm for posting.
On work time it's a little different
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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Wondered whether Toad Hall might have been submerged in the deluge !
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No problem, toads are amphibians ! ;-))
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Now I come to think of it, haven't the rules changed for bike licences? I think that if you pass your test on a 125 then you are automatically given a 'full' licence after 2 years. In which case it probably would be worth going down the 125 route and 2 years later go for a bigger bike if you still want to.
I wouldn't be put off going for a more powerfull bike (within reason) as it realy comes down to your own attitude to speed and power. If you can use it rather than abuse it then there is nothing to fear.
As far as winter riding goes, get properly kitted out and there's no problem but watch that low winter sun.
Keep upright.
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Anyone who has held a full licence for a 125 for two years and is over the age of 21 can then ride a bike of any capacity. By far the best way, any bike of 500cc or over has more power than most cars on the road, but cars don't fall over every time you make a minor misjudgement. Learn the tricks of the trade on something smell and easy to handle, then progress.
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Thanks to all who've replied to this thread, and brought their extensive knowledge of bikes and biking to this thread. I think I'm going to sit and think on my original dilemma(sp?) until the weather improves - I'm thinking about March/April at the earliest before I start; so I have plenty of time to think very carefully about it all - and save some cash!
In response to BrianW, who wanted to know my ultimate goal from learning to ride - in all honesty, my own personal pleasure (imagine that!). It's hard to use the car (Vectra 1.7TD) that gets me from St Helens to Manchester down the '62 and back each day (without complaint, I must add) as anything but a convenient transport. To be fair to it, I can't imagine doing that journey any other way than by car (especially the bumpy bit of the M62 between Warrington and Barton - most bike-unfriendly, I would imagine!).
Biking on the other hand, seems an entirely more involved experience. I suppose my ultimate aim is to be able to take the bike to the lakes, and go touring round the country roads.
I appreciate that's far removed from learning on a machine which is essentially a town commuter. But, we all have to start somewhere - and I'm quite happy with the two years of being restricted to the lower power bikes.
As Tom explained, it's the better way to get into motorcycling, and I'm in full agreement here. It's easy to forget the things you have learned in the past that you now can do without thinking. I still have all these joys(!) to come!
I'll certainly be back in here for some more advice once I have the CBT and bike and I'm on the roads. In no way is this intended to terminate this thread, btw. I've picked up lots of advice and I look forward to more.
Thanks once again,
-David L.
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I suppose my ultimate aim is to be able totake the bike to the lakes, and go touring round the country roads. I appreciate that's far removed from learning on a machine which is essentially a town commuter.
I think you'll find a 125 more than enough fun for that. 60 on a bike feels a lot quiicker than 60 in a car!!!
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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They're fine. THere are millions of them running around Asia. One of the m/c motorcyle clubs I belong to has over 1,100 KYmco owners. Like the Chinese Jongshan, they're based on Jap motors made under licence. Make sure you've got good parts back-up over there. Otherwise no worries, their QC is probably better than European. Only thing I would do is change the rubber if they come with Fuji or somesuch. Get some Bridgestone on there sharpish.
I generally recommend to people like you who ask me, to get a dirt/trail bike. NO need to bother cleaning them, their balance is great for weaselling thru heavy traffic and the Honda XLR for example will go fast enough to get your adrenaline pumping without having you treated by cage-drivers as a second-class citizen.
If you decide on two wheels welcome to a whole world of freedom!
But take a riding class.
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Hi,
I read this thread with interest, although I'm now back to a car (long story and too boring but involves the attempted theft of my bikes), I really wanted to add my opinion on this.
Direct access courses don't teach experience on two wheels and the associated road sense that's needed, if you think I'm joking look at the number of riders that have a race replica bike as a fun toy only to kill or seriously injure themselves within no time. Probably takes their family longer to sort out their 'estate' than it did to pass the direct access course.
'Real' bikers wouldn't ride a twist & go, maybe but more likely that they've never ridden a twist & go. In a city enviroment I don't think you can beat them, I live in Sheffield, large nasty city with bad roads, lots of cars and a b***** tram system, oh yes and motorists are about as welcomed by the council as a Bin Laden in the white house.
Quality counts I own two Hondas, one's a Rebel and the other's a Pantheon. Even after standing for two months they'll both start and when warm sound like Singers finest. Parts are easy to come by, though can be expensive and it's easy to get the real service manual, the one for the Rebel cost £13!
125 no good for long journeys? Well I guess that depends on how fast you want to go. I bought my Pantheon (FES125) in Durham, 100 miles away, I rode it back down the A1 in the snow and cold and was back home in 2 hours and 20 minutes and that included a stop of 30 minutes for a bite to eat. Apart from the cold hands it was fine and comfy.
Be careful of eastern scooters, most are made in China and a surprising number do not meet EU regulations although they claim to. For example a motorcycle should not be able to set off with the side stand down, on most compliant bikes as soon as the side stand is put down if the bike is in gear (if manual) the engine should cut out, on automatics the engine just won't start or will cut out if the side stand is down. The exception to this being older bikes and scooters that have side stand that spring loaded to retract as soon as the weight is taken off it.
My advice is this - try as many as you can from different manufacturers (I'm sure you see the difference) and buy something in reasonable shape that will at least do the job you need it to. Scooters are good in all weathers, except ice and snow.
Good Luck.
Steve.
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Shigg
As you say, don't write off scootes as an option.
One of my bikes is a Pantheon and as it will top 70 and cruise all day at 65, it will meet a lot of people's requirements.
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David L
Kymko bikes are made in Taiwan and are sold in hundreds of thousands in the Far East. I have no personal experience myself, but reports I have read in the press are complimentary and the price is right. Personally though I would go for a second hand Honda CG125 or similar. Its a Honda. Enough said.
Hopefully we will welcome you into the bike fraternity in the spring, you should know of course that once your in you will never come out. You may stop riding them, get married, divorced, loose your job, what ever, but you will never, ever leave the bike fraternity. One day you will just end up with another one. One piece of advice is that when your riding, especially cornering if you look at a lamp post, wall, kerb etc, you WILL hit it. Look where you want to go, not where you are going!
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Are you sure re the country where these are made it is given in What Bike as Turkey together with MZ and the small Honda's under licence ?
ndbw
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