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There are also some drivers that do not trust either garages, or mechanics, to do a proper job and would rather wait untill something has to be done than have preventative maintenance done,
in some ways its understandable due to bad name fitters who dont know what they are doing, who may cost them more in the short term. Ive seen a few so I know I suspect others here have as well
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If I hear another story about how you need to change your oil every 3000 miles I'll SCREAM
I doubt very much that the engine was "blown" and more likely oldroverboys mate was milking the nieve young couple for major £££ for something much less dramatic.
If it ran seriously low on oil, I doubt they could have driven it in and the garage would not have been able to start it. They must have ignored red light warnings, many modern diesels have low oil level warnings and buzzers/automatic engine shutdown on pesistent low oil pressure.
9000 miles in 21 months on any diesel should not be a problem at all. Lack of servicing was most certainly not the root cause of their engine problem and a service would MOST PROBABLY NOT have prevented the failure.
In many countries in Europe, most manufacturers specify 2 years / 30,000km as a "standard" interval. Only UK seem to persist in this lets milk everyone and not be held liable attitude.
Edited by brum on 12/04/2012 at 03:21
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My BMW runs quite happily for 2 years between services, about 18,000 miles, 1,000 short of the max mileage. The wifes Kia has a 20,000 service interval but there is the "or 1 year" condition which results in it visiting the garage twice as often.
There is no good reason why the OP's friends car failed just because it missed a service. Suspect we are not getting the whole story.
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My BMW runs quite happily for 2 years between services, about 18,000 miles, 1,000 short of the max mileage. The wifes Kia has a 20,000 service interval but there is the "or 1 year" condition which results in it visiting the garage twice as often.
There is no good reason why the OP's friends car failed just because it missed a service. Suspect we are not getting the whole story.
The important thing is that you know the time/mileage requirements for servicing each of your vehicles - as everyone should.
I'm guessing that as well as failing to get the car serviced, the OP's friend failed to check/correct the oil level - lack of oil causing the problem but lack of servicing the justified reason for no warranty repair.
Many (most ?) cars have no oil level light and those that do sometimes go faulty! The dipstick check works.
I guess every mechanic has had customers' cars towed in with the message, the oil level light has only just come on - NO, THAT'S THE OIL PRESSURE LIGHT - it tells you when your engine has just blown up!
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There is no good reason why the OP's friends car failed just because it missed a service. Suspect we are not getting the whole story.
The rest of the conversation was, roughly as follows, reason for missed service turned out to be they had been to Oz for a year, so car not used at all, so no problem there. (and what about all those cars still under warranty sitting on main dealers forecourts for over a year?) In reference to the poster (brum) who claims my "mate" actually very good friend is trying to rip them off, he has not charged them for the time his mechanic spent on the car. yes there are lots of charlatans in the uk, but please don't tar everyone with the same brush. And nobody says that cars have to have 3000 mile oil changes, some people voluntarily do that, it's their privilege and money, but when my "change oil now" warning came on, that is just what i did! and got the service book stamped to prove it. AND as it happens that was 5000 odd miles after the last service.
Edited by OldRoverboy on 12/04/2012 at 09:53
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My A8 says it needs servicing around every 29,000 miles/2 years.
I actually change the oil and filter before and after the winter season. so probably about every 7,000 miles.
It can't hurt, it doesn't cost a great deal, maybe £60 a year as I buy the Quantum 707.00 oil in drums when on promotion.
The main reason is that I enjoy doing traditional 'man' ithings like this and find it a very relaxing and satisfying thing to do. Just as some men smoke pipes which if analysed objectively, is pretty pointless..
Edited by Hamsafar on 12/04/2012 at 10:08
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for those sitting smug, saying mines fine for two years or 20-30K miles just wait till the car gets a few years on & it will bite you back. Some wont care as it wont be their problem!
The enviroment i work in is seeing car engines fail on a daily basis with some horredous outcomes, just due to the extended service intervals. The engines cannot take it but the service intervals are there for the manufactures to compete in the world with long life servicing.
fine when they are new & low mileage.
As for the couple with the engine failure , no symapthy whatsoever !
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The 2 year service interval is designed specifically for fleet use, ie just one service then auction the car at 3 years to a mug private owner.
The 2 year interval and "longlife" oil certainly isn't designed to prolong an engine's life !!
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There was a report on German TV a couple of years ago of a firm issuing a lifetime guarantee, backed by the Allianz insurance company, against engine damage for its no-change oil (essentially a good quality synthetic oil). This story included an interview with an expert from an oil testing laboratory to the effect that annual oil changes are not really necessary at all. At most, a filter change is needed and a top up of the oil lost. The driving force for the annual oil change is keeping the garages in business.
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Must be. HGV diesels run for many thousands on the same oil: checked by oil analysis at say 60,000. It's unlikely to be oil failure as the cause of mechanical grief. More likely low or no oil. Thats what happens when airheads with too much money (or debt!) are allowed to run cars.
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Must be. HGV diesels run for many thousands on the same oil: checked by oil analysis at say 60,000. It's unlikely to be oil failure as the cause of mechanical grief. More likely low or no oil. Thats what happens when airheads with too much money (or debt!) are allowed to run cars.
Judging by US car forums, the use of oil analysis is relatively common there with the results used to determine next oil change. I do though get the impression that their engine oils are way inferior to ours hence the much lower change intervals over there.
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I'm no expert, but I think their fuels are a little variable. VAG have some resistance to 1) 10,000 OCI: 2) using higher grade oil than the traditional for the USA. But, it seems there are many oils available to the same standards as in Europe. The difficulty seems to be the habit of more frequent OCI, but using cheaper oils. Look at Freds TDI for debate:)
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I think a lot of people don't even know how to do any basic maintenance on their cars. If you're going to run a vehicle you should at least be able to top up the usual fluids, change bulbs and look after your tyres and paintwork. I'm not an expert by any stretch but I can do those things, change tyres and do a bit of electrics, spark plugs etc.
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I do though get the impression that their engine oils are way inferior to ours
True. The US have way more stringent emissions testing than Europe and this is why their oils generally provide poorer protection. US oils have a low concentration of ZDDP, because the phosphate reduces the effectiveness of catalytic converters. ZDDP is a very effective anti wear compound. But unless you drive predominantly very short journeys, sub 5000 mile oil changes are silly.
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low-SAPS oils are used here too, because of DPF, surely?
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My understanding is that the US has no equivalent of ACEA grading and that the SAE standards are bare minimums so the manufacturers sales descriptions is all they have to go on - there's also a difference between the US definition of "synthetic" oil and Europe.
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SAPS aren't the same as ZDDP. SAPS are unwanted impurities in the oil whereas ZDDP was a desirable additive.
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Sulphated ash, phosphorous, sulphur reduced, as you say. But as ZDDP contains phosporous, ZDDP was reduced, and the reduced lubricating function helped by boron and other substances. If I understand correctly.
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You're quite right nortones. It's a particular pain for those of us with 2 valvers, since those valve trains really miss ZDDP. Oil producers manage to put a positive spin on their low ZDDP oils by boasting that they "are suitable for multivalve engines" which sounds like a feature when it isn't!
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If you want oil that contains ZDDP look no further than Millers CFS. Used it in a x-flow, no problems even at 8400 rpm, others were having component failure (especially cam follower failure) at much lower revs. Don't use it in vehicles that are equipeed with cats, they don't like it.
Linky. http://www.millersoils.co.uk/pdf/automotive/ZDDP.pdf
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The 2 year service interval is designed specifically for fleet use, ie just one service then auction the car at 3 years to a mug private owner.
The 2 year interval and "longlife" oil certainly isn't designed to prolong an engine's life !!
I think you are grossly underestimating the quality and robustness of modern synthetic oils. As in HGV engines where they use oil analysis due to the sheer cost of engine rebuilds, synth oil virtually never gets broken down like the old fashioned oils used to, so even over 2 years, the only thing that can damage the engine oil-wise is low oil level.
I would confidently say that a car driven say 18k miles in 2 years with one oil change in that time would have just as good an engine quality that had had the oil changed anually, again provided the level was kept correct. My last 4 or 5 cars have been used against this scenario with no ill effects whatsoever.
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Totally agree the problem as I see it was low oil causing mechanical breakdown or a faulty part.
Taking a car to a glass palace and parting with hard earned money for a spotty youth to kick the tyres is not my idea of economics.
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The original post was a comment on a couple who had a vehicle that was 1. not serviced. 2.left standing for nearly a year. 3 not suitable for the short stop-start driving it was subjected to, and finally yet another instance of the figures for mpg obscuring all other sensible options. If as in this case the oil is contaminated it will not be conducive to long engine life. As it also happens, he is trying to help, although they will not accept that their usage of the vehicle (mostly trips of less than a couple of miles twice a day) is at all responsible. I for one would like to see some respected figure do a proper report on this subject!
Edited by OldRoverboy on 14/04/2012 at 11:24
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Having seen home PCs with loads of viruses and no protection, and helped one lady top up the oil in here Passat 2.0TDI when the oil warning light came on (!), I am delighted to go through life reading instruction books and extracting the key data..
Most 200 page books can be summaried in 2 pages.
(I would blame manufacturers for not having an idiot's guide.. but then the idiots that use their products would sue if anything is not spelled out...)
Many users have no idea and run cars like washing machines: until they break..
Edited by madf on 17/04/2012 at 17:30
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Many users have no idea and run cars like washing machines: until they break..
Actually that is one product i DO use till it breaks, but there again that's generally no servicing at all, last one 4 years and counting.
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Many users have no idea and run cars like washing machines: until they break..
Actually that is one product i DO use till it breaks, but there again that's generally no servicing at all, last one 4 years and counting.
Of course, your washing machine, dishwasher, microwave, etc ad nauseum will come with a "Quick Reference" card explaining the essential information to get started and necessary care and feeding, often with references to the relevant sections of the "thick book".
I've often wondered why more cars don't come with something similar outlining the important controls and service requirements......
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Of course, your washing machine, dishwasher, microwave, etc ad nauseum will come with a "Quick Reference" card explaining the essential information to get started and necessary care and feeding, often with references to the relevant sections of the "thick book".
I've often wondered why more cars don't come with something similar outlining the important controls and service requirements......
They do, we all mine have - the owners handbook usually contains a quick reference guide at the front and then more detail following.
As is often said, when in doubt RTFM !!
Edited by RT on 18/04/2012 at 16:34
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nora ! posted twice,
Edited by OldRoverboy on 17/04/2012 at 18:51
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I would confidently say that a car driven say 18k miles in 2 years with one oil change in that time would have just as good an engine quality that had had the oil changed anually, again provided the level was kept correct. My last 4 or 5 cars have been used against this scenario with no ill effects whatsoever.
At what mileage have you sold these cars?
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It depends on the duty cycle. There's only so much unburned petrol oil can hold before it degrades (it doesn't all boil out). Same goes with suspended soot in diesel engines. That said, oils are much better than they once were and I don't see a problem with 15,000+ mile oil changes if the car does mainly long trips. Trucks tend to run increasing oil change intervals up to 30,000 miles or more and the owners are interested in the long term performance of the engines, so its not a fleet use cost saver.
This engine didn't blow because it's oil was slightly passed its due changing date.
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This engine didn't blow because it's oil was slightly passed its due changing date.
Ahah...bit by bit the story emerges.......it wasnt the oil, so how does an engine blow because a service is a bit late? Your OP does not support the broken cambelt scenario so what was it? Pray tell instead of turning this thread into some sort of tortuous old mans blog.
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For all we know it could be a broken harmonic dampener or something. I think the moral of the OP was that lack of oil changes leads to catastrophic failure-which seems unlikely. Accelerated wear, yes, but not a ruined engine in 9000 miles.
Yes, an update would be nice!
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The OP on that thread handed the maker a perfect 'get out of jail' card, they didn't have the car seviced on time and well over mileage.
Whatever failed on the car would be dismissed out of hand unless it was so cheap as to be not worth the aggro.
The battlecruiser Trading Standards must have Mazda quaking in this case...;)
For what its worth i doubt the overmileage oil was the problem either, it could have been fuel contaminated oil due to failed regens, or simply neglecting the car by allowing the oil level to drop to a dangerous level, or a genuine fault such as faulty oil pump.
Whatever caused it doesn't matter, the OP didn't honour their side of the contract by maintaining the vehicle correctly.
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Dont think you read the OP properly GB - its a third hand account
Edited by brum on 17/04/2012 at 21:25
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I think a lot of this aggro could be avoided if the cost of servicing during warranty period was included in the price of a new car. The same should apply to cam belt changes. We need to stop kidding ourselves that we can buy new cars laden for features for sub £10K. The illusion isn't doing anyone any favours.
As it is, cars are being sold too cheaply and the profit margin has been switched into rip-off servicing. You can see why people avoid it. It's a shame to risk loss of warranty on an almost new car for the sake of a few hundred pounds.
I've got a 2000 edition of Parkers-and even without including inflation-cars were more expensive back then. It amazes me just how many cars under two years old there are on the roads. I always wondered how people could afford them. The answer is that a lot can't.
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Brum, i and several others (i think) were referring to the serviced too late and over mileage Mazda 3 Diesel on another thread, i think that thread inspired this one, course i could be wrong, often am...;)
Possibly like ORB and others i find mself in a permanent state of bewilderment at the way people fail to maintain things at least as well as the minimum requirements and then wonder why they go bang, then blame the maker and expect them to pick up the tab.
Edited by gordonbennet on 17/04/2012 at 21:53
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Gordon, I agree with you. I can't understand why anyone can find £10K for a car, but can't afford a service. But we know that the populace are like magpies-they like shiny new things, but won't pay for they can't see. If the servicing is 'free', then they'll be beating the dealers' door down to get it serviced!
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It's because people want to be seen in a newish car; it's sad I know, but a lot of people unfortunantly are!
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