Cyclist this Morning - fredthefifth

Don’t worry, no contact or broken bones.

On approaching a mini R/B on a narrow road this morning a cyclist (man in early 60’s, no helmet) started to undertake me but due to relative speeds on approach ended up riding alongside me. The road was narrow and there wasn’t really enough space for him to do so, consequently he was really close to the side of the car. On entering the R/B we were side by side with him still really close. Obviously I was watching him carefully because I could easily have knocked him off his bike. What made things worse is that he went across the mini R/B in a straight line forcing me to do the same and having to take the hump – literally! On exit, looking at the rear view mirror he was gesticulating!
Had overtook said cyclist two or three hundred yards back from the R/B. At the time he was riding quite sensibly and I overtook without problem or going close or anything I can think off that would have annoyed him.

Any ideas on the reason for the gesticulating?

Cyclist this Morning - ChannelZ

His lycra was too tight.

Cyclists, in my experience, are clueless. Head down, pedalling like fury in heavy rush hour traffic, then get uppity when their lack of attention to traffic puts them in a dangerous situation.

Classic example is them swinging out to pass a parked car or skip, basically meaning they're riding right in to the path of faster moving traffic.

You lycra-clad friend will be mudflap decoration of a bus soon enough, don't worry too much, there's nothing you could have done differently that would have stopped him doing what he did.

Cyclist this Morning - Collos25

You overtook him just before the roundabout I must ask why surely it was safer to lie back and let him go first case of motorist being more important than the cyclist and by the way a helmet is not a legal requirement an item made for the protection of children and tested to 5mph falls of a trike..

Cyclist this Morning - Waino

I'm a cyclist/motorcyclist/car driver and, in the circumstances you describe i.e. seeing him alongside me going into a mini R/B, I would have given way to him. I agree with the points made by Collos.

Cyclist this Morning - Ethan Edwards

A point gentlemen.

The OP stated something along the lines of that he overtook said cyclist and that whilst he was stationary before going onto the r/b said cyclist caught up with him and proceded to keep level with him whilst the motorist was going over the r/b.

Now you talk of right of way etc fair enough.

BUT.

The cyclist behaved in a stupid manner. Cyclists should NEVER come alongside and attempt to undertake any vehicle in that situation. What if the motorist had been turning left? Some vehicles don't indicate and a smart cyclist anticipates accordingly. Lots of cyclists have died by doing just this action alongside HGV's and Busses. He is a dumbass. Give it time Darwin will eradicate him from the gene pool.

Hardcore cycling activists bleat about right of way etc. and continue to get killed and wonder why.

Smarter cyclists ride defensively.

I'm surprised at a fellow 'motorbikist' not picking up on this.

IMO there's no clear you were right you were wrong in this incident. Probably the motorist should have allowed the idiot cyclist to procede then passed him when safe. Cyclists don't appreciate just how much of a PITA they really are.

The gestures? Maybe the cyclist had his panties in a bunch?

Cyclist this Morning - Waino

Yes, I could have picked up on the cyclist being, as you say, a "dumbass", but I chose not to judge either the cyclist or the motorist. I merely said that, under those circumstances, I would have given way to the cyclist . I wouldn't have wanted to risk ruining the day for either, or both, of us! I always give way to 'softer targets' i.e. motorcyclists, cyclists, pedestrains.

As a motorcyclist, I have learned the art of defensive driving. People do daft things - expect it and live with it!

Cyclist this Morning - Bobbin Threadbare

I am too slow a cyclist to ever get myself into these situations, but I usually wait for a massive gap when cycling on roundabouts. I have been known to dismount and push the bike across a big road!

I saw a cyclist last night, no lights, dark clothing, hood pulled up. We were walking along and he was cyling on the pavement and he clipped my husband with his bike. Numpty! One can only hope he doesn't get the opportunity to contribute to the gene pool.

If it's any consolation Fred, I just received a few hand gestures from a young man because he chose to cross the road as the lights turned green for vehicles, and I revved my engine at him.

Cyclist this Morning - TeeCee

Overtakers-------->

<--------Undertakers

Undertaking a larger vehicle is fairly stupid in most circumstances. Attempting to carve it up while doing so is insane.

There's only one thing to do when confronted with a nutjob cyclist, avoid 'em and smugly contemplate someone else's insurance premiums taking the hit when the inevitable occurs.

Cyclist this Morning - davecooper

I am a cyclist and a driver and as far as I am concerned you do not mix it with cars. It is a battle for survival which the car will win. There are plenty of things you should and shouldn't do when riding a bike but one of the most important is don't p**s drivers off. If you appear to be helping other motorists negotiate you, then you will get a bit more respect from them.

I was in the car this morning when a cyclist squeezed between me and the kerb at a set of lights so that he could sail through the red lights as if they didn't exist. He nearly got taken out by a right turning motor bike. No sympathy, the highway code applies to drivers and cyclists.

Cyclist this Morning - fredthefifth

Thanks for the comments. Reassuring that I’m not being criticised too much, though I do appreciate that there will be some that see it purely from the cyclists point of view.

I would like to point out that for me to have settled in behind the cyclist while still two or three hundred yards from the roundabout would have been ridiculous. I probably would have had cars overtake us both. In my opinion at the R/B the cyclist drove aggressively and badly, putting himself in a dangerous position where had it not been for my awareness would have seen him knocked off.

Yes I could have stopped and let him go, but that wouldn’t have been too clever having just pulled onto a roundabout either so I drove over the bump.

I get the feeling that cyclists feel as though they are always the victims and have the moral high ground at the moment and can get away with anything.

Cyclist this Morning - thirts

I'm a cyclist and driver and I routinly go through red ligths on my bike, as long as there are no cars crossing on green or any pedestrains. I never ride on the pavements and the cyclsits I see doing that are worst than Hitler

I know many motorist hate me for running red lights and I suppose I do it for the very same reason that many many motorist think the speed limits don't apply to them.

And I suppose I do it as two fingers to all the motorist I see speeding, on the mobile phones, cutting me up, pushing the front of their car over the cycle lanes when trying to nudge into the traffic from a side road .

However, in all other respects I'm a very defensive cyclist and assume I wear a clock of invisibility. I can't explain the actions of the cyclist you met this morning, it would be interesting to know what was going through his mind...if indeed anything

Cyclist this Morning - fredthefifth

A very open response.

Thanks.

Cyclist this Morning - johncyprus
As a motorist,motorcyclist and a cyclist I will offer what wisdom I have. Any cyclist in the UK soon becomes aware that only powered vehicles command respect on our roads. It's common to be cut up or to be passed by drivers who think it safe to leave only a few inches between you and their dangerous motor vehicles. Why did he gesticulate to you of all drivers? Only you and the cyclist know for sure; reading between the lines for what it's worth - maybe you got too close to him?
Cyclist this Morning - jamie745

Any cyclist in the UK soon becomes aware that only powered vehicles command respect on our roads.

Thats not true. I think motorcyclists are stupid as well.

Edited by jamie745 on 22/02/2012 at 23:11

Cyclist this Morning - motorprop

I'm a cyclist and driver and I routinly go through red ligths on my bike, as long as there are no cars crossing on green or any pedestrains. I never ride on the pavements and the cyclsits I see doing that are worst than Hitler

As a cyclist and driver I am guilty as above except that I do ride on pavements. I have two particular 15 or 6 mile routes that take me along the North Circ and A41 , both 6 lane A roads. I'd rather be ' worse than Hitler ' than risk life and limb on those roads , unlike the silly sod who cycled on the Hanger Lane gyratory this morning, got taken out, the resulting jams with police closures paralysed the whole of West London all day. Go figure . There is a perfectly safe cycle route under that roundabout

Cyclist this Morning - TeeCee

so that he could sail through the red lights as if they didn't exist. He nearly got taken out by a right turning motor bike.

Hmm, I used to ride a motorbike around London regularly. The number of times I very nearly "had" a red light jumping cyclist who hadn't seen me was quite scary. I came to the conclusion that cyclists are worse at spotting motorbikes than car drivers are.

Lycra loons need to remember that just because all the cars, trucks and such are moving at a maximum of 2mph in a stop/start queue, doesn't mean that everything is.....

Cyclist this Morning - Bromptonaut

Any ideas on the reason for the gesticulating?

Difficult to say. If events were exactly as described above you did the right things though I wonder why you mention the helmet. In cyclist's shoes I'd have made sure I was either in front of you at the r/b or in the queue behind. Trying to negotiate anything more than a slight bend alongside a motor vehicle invites a high risk of being pushed against the kerb.

The only clue I pick up is that you say you overtook him 200/300yds back from r/bout. Are you sure it was that far? One thing that mildly irritates on my daily commute is drivers with a 'must get past the cyclist' mentality who pass just before a junction. If we're all headed for the next queue at lights, roundabout or whatever why bother?. I'm almost certain to pass you again in the queue - though more likley to go down the offside than 'undertake'.

Cyclist this Morning - johncyprus
"That's not true. I think motorcyclists are stupid as well."

No tendencies towards xenophobia then, Jamie?

Edited by johncyprus on 23/02/2012 at 21:57

Cyclist this Morning - jamie745

One thing that mildly irritates on my daily commute is drivers with a 'must get past the cyclist' mentality who pass just before a junction.

I do that. Whoops. I'm one of them who will stamp on it so as i can get round the cyclist before the traffic island.

Cyclist this Morning - Bromptonaut
I do that. Whoops. I'm one of them who will stamp on it so as i can get round the cyclist before the traffic island.

Which is why, as he doesn't want to get squashed or sideswiped, the aware cyclist takes a bold position in the road ahead of a pinch point.

Edited by Bromptonaut on 24/02/2012 at 09:42

Cyclist this Morning - johncyprus

"I do that. Whoops. I'm one of them who will stamp on it so as i can get round the cyclist before the traffic island."

Jamie why not wait patiently behind the cyclist?

Cyclist this Morning - jamie745

Jamie why not wait patiently behind the cyclist?

I didnt buy a 240bhp car to travel at bicycle speeds. It depends on the situation, if we're approaching red lights then theres no point because i wont get anywhere any faster, but if im driving along and theres a cyclist in front and a traffic island coming up i'll try and get round them before we get there.

An unfair race perhaps but it gets me through the day.

Cyclist this Morning - Avant

The most useful posts on this thread are from those who, like Fred V originally, try to see things from both points of view - motorist and cyclist.

Cyclist this Morning - jamie745

The most useful posts on this thread are from those who, like Fred V originally, try to see things from both points of view - motorist and cyclist.

If you continue to be patronising i'll make a point about how Bus Lanes are stupid. Why do poor people get their own lane?

This is why you want me in a relaxing automatic. My experience of a Mondeo ST24 was the moment you get in you feel compelled to drive like a knob.

Cyclist this Morning - KB.

“Thats not true. I think motorcyclists are stupid as well”

“I do that. Whoops. I'm one of them who will stamp on it so as i can get round the cyclist before the traffic island”.

“I didnt buy a 240bhp car to travel at bicycle speeds. It depends on the situation, if we're approaching red lights then theres no point because i wont get anywhere any faster, but if im driving along and theres a cyclist in front and a traffic island coming up i'll try and get round them before we get there.

An unfair race perhaps but it gets me through the day.”

“If you continue to be patronising i'll make a point about how Bus Lanes are stupid. Why do poor people get their own lane?

This is why you want me in a relaxing automatic. My experience of a Mondeo ST24 was the moment you get in you feel compelled to drive like a knob”.

You must be pulling your hair out, Jamie. You’re posting for effect, to gain attention and to bait others in to entering in to argument with you so that you can continue with your immature games……..but no-one wants to play.

How darned annoying that must be.

Clearly others here have experience and a much more mature outlook…and some will have have ridden bikes, motorbikes and the like, as well as cars and see things from a balanced perspective…and maybe are confident enough with themselves not to have the need to try to provoke all the time. They MAY even have had prestigious stuff like Jags or whatever….I don’t remember what you drive however, Jamie – I don’t think you’ve ever mentioned it.

And before you ask….as I’m sure you was going to…..yes I’ve cycled, had motor bikes when younger, and even had some nice cars too. I’m far from perfect though and can always learn…… From experience, from my mistakes, from all those who know more than I do, from instructors who drive so much better than I ever will. I even had a go at driving stuff with blue lights on top and made lots of noise as they go past. In fact I had 28 years of driving them.

I tell you what WILL give you the hump though, Jamie…(but keep it under your hat if you would)…..I’m one of them perishing IAM know-nothings! There! That really has put the tin hat on it J You knew there was something you didn’t like about me but couldn’t put your finger on it J

But seriously, if anything IS likely to raise a response it’s the irritating habit you have……… .

………of writing “i” when you really mean “I”…… J - There, a big ol’ smiley to show no hard feelings.

Night, Jamie.

Edited by KB. on 24/02/2012 at 22:21

Cyclist this Morning - jamie745

In case you're wondering i got bored of your post after about 9 words.

Cyclist this Morning - KB.

Jamie, ol' fella, it's nearly eleven on a Friday night, you should be out with yer mates and that girl friend of yours, driving in yer Jag - the one with all those bhp's....not sitting on HJ' forum waiting for some boring old duffer like me to reply to you...

and how many times have I got to tell you...it's " i " not " I "....:-)

I'm off to bed with my book and a nice cup of Horlicks and the cat at the end of the bed, Jamie, I'll leave you to to keep an eye on here.

Night.

x

Cyclist this Morning - bonzo dog

Jamie, ol' fella, it's nearly eleven on a Friday night, you should be out with yer mates and that girl friend of yours, driving in yer Jag - the one with all those bhp's....not sitting on HJ' forum waiting for some boring old duffer like me to reply to you

...………of writing “i” when you really mean “I”……

It's because he's using his left hand to type because his right hand is otherwise engaged getting all worked up hoping that people will respond to his postings!

Cyclist this Morning - FP

That's a bit rich. Some of J's posts have been lengthy, to say the least. And mostly too boring to read right through.

Edited by FP on 24/02/2012 at 23:20

Cyclist this Morning - fredthefifth

Yunno having read through this I can appreciate that many will conclude that I did something to iritate said cyclist and are reading between the lines and I understand that you can't just take the word of a bloke on a forum, but I can assure you that when I overtook the cyclist I did not get too close. There was no ongoing traffic and I gave him plenty of space. I am completely on the side of the cyclist when motorists overtake when there isn't enough room and get too close. I've done it myself (haven't we all?) and hold my hand up, but its been a case of missjudgement or ongoing traffic not getting over and not deliberate.

I think the cyclist made the classic mistake of edging up the inside of the cars at the roundabout, he just happend to be next to me when I pulled on. That he drove straight across it, forcing me over was again just bad cycling. They do exist you know!

Cyclist this Morning - Bromptonaut

Sorry Fred. You asked for some ideas about why he was gesticulating and folks provided answers. We may be wrong. Rider may be a tool or perhaps a pavlovian reaction to a car he perceived to be too near.

I see carp cycling everyday from my own saddle. Red lights, pavements and going down death alley up n/s of buses and trucks are the usual ones.

Cyclist this Morning - jamie745

Its the cyclists who overtake the buses as its pulling out which get me. How many cyclists get squashed between the bus and whatever is on their right? Madness.

Cyclist this Morning - Bromptonaut

Its the cyclists who overtake the buses as its pulling out which get me. How many cyclists get squashed between the bus and whatever is on their right? Madness.

From the cyclist's perspective it's a bus pulling out as you overtake. Irritating but not really dangerous - very unlikley that road is so narrow you're forced into path of an oncoming vehicle. Probably scary if you're firghtened to mix in with traffic but there are plenty of old and bold cyclists - it's much safer than you'd think.

Cyclist this Morning - jamie745

From the cyclist's perspective it's a bus pulling out as you overtake.

The last time i checked the highway code it said if the bus is indicating right then you stop behind it and give way. Does the highway code not apply to cyclists? About a year ago i was going through town, two lanes in one direction and i was in the right hand lane as i was turning right further down and this cyclist appears out of nowhere down the middle of both lanes and tries to overtake a bus pulling away from a bus stop just as a pickup truck in front of me is turning right and i had to look away at that moment. Luckily he was ok but if he'd died it wouldve been his own stupid fault.

Big vehicles and bicycles dont mix, mainly because users of both have no experience of the other so cyclists simply dont realise that the bus/HGV etc cannot react or change direction as quickly as they can and most of the time they simply cant be seen.

Cyclist this Morning - fredthefifth

>>Does the highway code not apply to cyclists

I think there you have it! No it would seem. There's no test, no requirement to read the highway code, just buy a bike and start to mix it with the evil motorist and claim foul whenever your own progress is impeded.

Cyclist this Morning - jamie745

Thats the scary thing. People are allowed on the road on these contraptions without even reading the Highway Code, so most of them dont actually know what they're doing. Government policy of pandering to cyclists, making it politically incorrect to ever criticise them doesnt help, because that gives them the attitude of 'i can do whatever i want, everythings the motorists fault.'

Cyclist this Morning - Collos25

You would be in very good company.

Cyclist this Morning - Rufus Roughcut

When cyclists ride beside me I always put my wipers on fast and wash the windscreen! soon makes them drop back :-)

Edited by Rufus Roughcut on 25/02/2012 at 22:42

Cyclist this Morning - Bromptonaut

Thats the scary thing. People are allowed on the road on these contraptions without even reading the Highway Code, so most of them dont actually know what they're doing. Government policy of pandering to cyclists, making it politically incorrect to ever criticise them doesnt help, because that gives them the attitude of 'i can do whatever i want, everythings the motorists fault.'

Jamie,

The majority of cyclists will also be drivers. There's a widespread problem of road users not abiding by the Highway Code. Never read read it or read but forgotten/ignored the outcome is the same.

I have to assume the minicab driver less than a foot off my wheel by Euston the other week had read it. The rule about giving cyclists space had gone in one ear and out the other missing both his brain cells.

Cyclist this Morning - Avant

"The majority of cyclists will also be drivers."

Absolutely - not least the ones on Bromptons who take their bikes out of the back of their cars!

A thread like this is a good opportunity to discuss how to co-exist more effectively: we can comfort ourselves by bearing in mind that the great majority of both motorists and cyclists (and motorcyclists) do indeed see each other's point of view, and drive / ride with dure consideration. It's important not to tar all of a particular type of road user with the same brush.

Cyclist this Morning - 475TBJ

So, cyclists who go through red lights if there's nothing coming think its OK. If you were driving a car you wouldn't make moronic decisions, decisions like that because you know the consequences of being moronic in a car. So why become moronic on a bike. If you had a number plate on your bike you wouldn't.

I cycle and drive. I am too aware of how vulnerable I am to go riding up the inside of cars in lines of traffic or approaching roundabouts. Cyclists should have to pay insurance just like the rest of us and road tax to be on the road/cycle ways.

Cyclist this Morning - Bromptonaut

Cyclists should have to pay insurance just like the rest of us and road tax to be on the road/cycle ways.

The most dangerous red light jumping I see in London every day is performed at 25 - 30 after amber and half a second of red. The morons concerned all have registration plates; quite a few are bright red , show route numbers and logos such as Stagecoach, RATP or Abelio.

Happy to pay same VED as other zero emission vehicles. An most cylists have insurance either through being in CTC, LCC etc or via their household policies.

Edited by Bromptonaut on 26/02/2012 at 19:48

Cyclist this Morning - bathtub tom

>>Cyclists should have to pay insurance just like the rest of us and road tax to be on the road/cycle ways.

Here we go again, all the old clichés.

I've insurance through my house insurance and I pay exactly the same road tax as any other low emission vehicle.

While I'm cycling, neither of my cars is taking up space on the road or in car parks.

Cyclist this Morning - 475TBJ

The morons concerned all have registration plates; quite a few are bright red , show route numbers and logos such as Stagecoach, RATP or Abelio.

Bromtonaut. They can all be traced and fined. Moronic cyclists can't be. If they could be they would think twice about breaking the law.

Some cyclists don't have cars yet expect cycle ways etc. These have to be funded by all tax payers irrrespective of whether or not they cycle or drive or just walk, rise buses/trains etc. Road tax is supposed to pay for roads etc. Cyclists in some way should contribute whether its a tax on new cycle sales.

Cyclist this Morning - Bromptonaut

But the fact is they're not being traced and fined. Not even the buses. Police wait at junctions in London and book light jumping cyclists.

There's not been a road tax funding the roads in my lifetime and I'm well over 50. Emisions related VED is part of general taxation along with VAT, Income Tax and beer duty.

I'm funding the roads everytime I buy a pint!

Cyclist this Morning - 475TBJ

Good to see police doing their job in London. Cyclists jumping lights in London must be a huge menace.

Cyclist this Morning - Bromptonaut

Good to see police doing their job in London. Cyclists jumping lights in London must be a huge menace.

Menace is something of an overstatement. Never in thirteen years of commuting have I seen a collision or even a close miss. Too much risk to pedestrians though.

Biggest crime the RLJ'r commits is 'bringing the game into disrepute'.

Cyclist this Morning - 1litregolfeater

Mini roundabouts are meant to be driven over in a straight line, aren't they?

I always do, whether on a bike or in a car. Like in France, from where we imported um.

You need to revisit your highway code, where it says:

"Cyclists wobble and weave unpredicatably which is a normal part of riding a bike, so a car driver must always give them a wide berth"

Or words to that effect.

Never mind gesticulating, your roof would need repairs with some cyclists.

Cyclist this Morning - tanvir

I agree with your first sentence (unless it is a raised bump).

The painted mini roundabout is merely there to let you know you must give way to the right.