Ford Galaxy 1.8 TDCI - advice please - engine failure - brignac

Trying to help someone in a dispute with a Ford dealer. They bought 07 model in May last year. Mileage was 37,000 with FFSH. Seven months later the car breaks down and recovered to dealer. Turbo failure is diagnosed. Garage then fits a new turbo, and which point - in their own words -letter below.

"After carrying out initial diagnosis it was found that the turbo had failed. We replaced the turbo with your authority and upon completion started the vehicle in the workshop. This is normal practice.

Due to the turbo failure and the fact that it had 'dumped' its oil it was a little smoky and was contaminating the workshop. We therefore had to remove the vehicle to an area that was outside. At this point the engine began to over rev, the technician immediately turned the ignition off but the engine continued to run and would not cut out. This would have been due to the amount of oil sitting on top of the pistons and therefore the engine was continuing to run on oil rather than diesel. Once the engine has stopped running it would not restart. We left it for a while to cool down and tried again, it still would not start."

We suspected that the engine itself had been damaged by the turbo failure and therefore the dumped oil, we then requested authority from yourself to remove the cylinder head. Upon removal of the cylinder head it became clearly evident that the no 2 piston had failed. The extent of the damage was so extreme that the whole engine itself would need to be replaced. "

The dealer has said that it was not responsible for the problem. Has installed a new engine at at cost to him of almost £5,000. Dealer says he chose not to extend the 6-month warranty, and is out of luck. It says it reduced the bill from £8,000.

Ford has refused to contribute as car out of warranty.

I've been told that if you incorrectly install a turbo, you can get it to run on its own oil - as happened here - to destruction. Anyone shed any light on this?

Sale of good act means he must prove that the fault with the car existed when he bought it, so exploring that. Car has only done 4,000 since he bought it. now at 41,000.

Any ideas would be great.

B

Ford Galaxy 1.8 TDCI - advice please - engine failure - dieselnut

I would suggest that any oil 'sitting on top of the pistons' would have either been burnt or ejected out of the exhaust within the first few revolutions of the engine. And if the garage thought this might be a possibility, why didn't they just remove the glow plugs & turn the engine over a few times to eject it.

If the old faulty turbo had spewed oil into the intake then there would probably have been a lot of oil in the intake pipework & intercooler. The garage should have cleaned this all out during the work they did, but possibly took a shortcut & didn't do this.

So when the engine was started & had warmed the oil a bit it got blown into the engine. Being an un-regulated fuel supply the engine would just rev away to destruction or until it had used up the oil.

The 'technician' should have known that if a diesel runs away you can stick it in a high gear & stall the engine, or if an auto, block the air intake.

Once an engine runs away all sorts of damage can occure as heavilly built diesels don't like overrevving.

But proving any of this is going to be almost impossible now.

Perhaps a face to face between your friend & the garage manager, letting the manager know that his explanation doesn't hold water might extract a bit more of a financial contribution.

Ford Galaxy 1.8 TDCI - advice please - engine failure - Peter D

"This would have been due to the amount of oil sitting on top of the pistons " No it wouldn't. That much oil would hydraulically lock the engine and it would not turn over. The source of the oil was from the contents of the pipework and particularly the intercooler. Regards Peter

Ford Galaxy 1.8 TDCI - advice please - engine failure - ChannelZ

Agreed with the posters above. Rookie mistake, they didn't flush the oil out of the intercooler. Would idle OK, but a blip of the trottle would blow the oil out of the intercooler and hey-presto, instant runaway engine.

Also as said, turning off the ignition would do bog-all, you're trying to turn off a chemical reaction with a key. Stall it, or block the air intake, only way of stopping a runaway diesel.

Purely the garages fault, and their responsibility.

Ford Galaxy 1.8 TDCI - advice please - engine failure - Fernando P

" Seven months later the car breaks down..." .What was the detail of the breakdown that led to the turbo being replaced, as there was a clue here for the garage's diagnosis of the problem? Typical failure of a turbo charger is along these lines. If a turbo charger's "bearings " fail, excessive oil enters the intercooler and in turn the turbo charger, (causing the runaway engine problem) it is normal practice to replace the intercooler and the turbo charger as it is quite difficult to remove the oil from the intercooler. Therefore, the garage has failed to properly diagnose and deal with the problem. But given the time that this dispute appears to have been allowed to go on for, a pragmatic solution would be to sit down with the workshop manager/Director and put the facts across with a view to a reasonable compromise, without resorting to litigation, as has been alluded to above. Should your friend consider the latter course of action, it is clear that further research and good expert evidence will be required to put the aspects of the problem across, all of which become more difficult to achieve as time passes.

Ford Galaxy 1.8 TDCI - advice please - engine failure - brignac

Thanks for the posts. having spoken to an expert engineer I had come come to the same conclusion - that he was being a fed a load of nonsense. Other possibility, he suggested, was that the replacement turbo (it was a recondition unit) also failed and started feeding oil to engine.

It's hard to prove, and all very expensive, and dealer is still denying any liability.

Car is now refusing to start and back there again...

cheers

B

Ford Galaxy 1.8 TDCI - advice please - engine failure - Fernando P

" that the replacement turbo ( it was a recondition unit)" ... Hmmm!

Ford Galaxy 1.8 TDCI - advice please - engine failure - madf

There MUST be a schedule of work carried out to justify the two invoices for a new turbo and new engine.

Ask for it. and for the garage time sheets.

If the intercooler and pipes were not stripped and cleaned (BOTH times) it is the garage's fault. This is a WELL KNOWN fault,,, there is an article in Car Mechanics on this engine (in a Transit) which backs this up.

If the work was not done, they are legally cut off at the knees.

Edited by madf on 22/02/2012 at 16:54

Ford Galaxy 1.8 TDCI - advice please - engine failure - derby79

I had a similar dispute with Ford. In fact it still ongoing 2 years later.

My partner and I purchased 2 X Ford Focus 1.8 tdci's 2009 plates at the same time.

Mine within I months started to have engine problems which I was told was the injectors. These were changed after numerous trips to the garage. Just over a year later total engine failure - blown bottom end of the engine.

Ford quoted £11,000 and would reduce to £10, 000 for a replacement and auxiliaries, turbo and new injectors.

It had done 61,000 miles.

I took it to an independent garage as under sale of goods act need an independent report - this is another story - but he stated that there was an electrical failure - which makes sense - I never had any lights show as warnings. I now know that the service light should have shown which never did.

My partners car also failed this October 81,000 miles. Ford never even bothered to return his call. Maybe as I asked for someone other than the area manager to call. The area manager phoned and shouted abuse St me for raising a complaint about my experience of Ford - virtue group area manager for Staffordshire. He was very aggressive.

Ford Galaxy 1.8 TDCI - advice please - engine failure - Railroad.
I agree with the above. We all know that if a Diesel engine runs ungoverned then the air intake must be blocked immediately. You don't just let it run until a con rod appears out the block, which it will. The garage undertaking this work must've known the risks associated with such a job. Many garages would've left well alone. Based on what the OP says I'm inclined to think that the garage who carried out the repair is at fault.