Mirror at junction - rogue-trooper

I wrote to the council a while back to ask whether they could put up a mirror on a junction that is very very difficult to see down (actually impossible). A lot of the locals take a detour but that is ridiculous. Anyway, the council wrote back and said that there had been no crashes there so nothing doing. This isn't correct as we, who live there, all know that there have been accidents.

They also said that a mirror cannot be erected because it isn't DoT approved. Fair enough, but if France can use them on their blind junctions, I can't see why we can't get them approved.

Is there anything that can be done? I only ask as I nearly had my nose taken off this weekend by a speeding motorist.

Mirror at junction - ChannelZ

Simple solution is everyone using the junction pools together and pays for the purchase and erection of a mirror. That's what happens round here.

Mirror at junction - Bobbin Threadbare

There's one like this in Lancaster. Some enterprising soul has put an old dining chair out with a rectangular bedroom mirror tied to it with blue twine. Nobody has touched it, council or otherwise!

Mirror at junction - jamie745

With the amount of tax we pay in this country you shouldnt have to buy your own mirror.

Mirror at junction - thunderbird

With the amount of tax we pay in this country you shouldnt have to buy your own mirror.

You may find that if the mirror causes injury to a person those who erected it would be held liable.

Back to the original post, at a company where I worked cars that parked on the road outside made seeing approaching traffic impossible. Added to that a bus stop was moved when developments took place further up the road and this made matters worse. One of the senior managers contacted the County Council and asked if double yellows could be painted. He recieved a letter explaining that since there had been no fatalities they were not in a position to paint double yellows, we were stunned that a Council Official would be stupid enough to state that in writing, would have made great press.

I left the company a short while after but I passed the site one morning and a refuse waggon had collided with a bus that was trying to pull out passed parked cars. There are now double yellows, improved visibilty splays and a revised bus stop.

Mirror at junction - jamie745

Not bothering to spend any money until theres a crash is standard council policy.

Mirror at junction - Hamsafar

I know of places with convex mirrors at blind junctions on public roads.

Saying it is not DfT approved is a red herring. It doesn't have to be any more than a litter bin or daffodil does.


http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1273965/mirror.png

Edited by Hamsafar on 13/02/2012 at 20:05

Mirror at junction - rogue-trooper

Hams, that looks like a private one for a house exit. As others have said, if you put one up for public use, then I presume if it is not approved you leave yourself liable if something happens..

Mirror at junction - Bromptonaut

Decide what exactly it is you want and construct a logical structured argument to justify it. By all means identify and play on flaws in your opponents case but eschew emotion and rhetoric. Above all, don't let it get personal.

If the traffic authority Council's officers dont want to konw try engaging with the elected Councillors.

Is there a Parish or Town Council who will support you? What about the local press?

Failing all of those is your MP any use - particularly if the Council are blaming DfT requirements for their failure to do anything.

Mirror at junction - rogue-trooper

I'll have to dig out the email that they sent me some time ago. I seem to recall that they sent someone to look at it and they agreed that it was difficult. Maybe have a meeting with the coucil man there. As the wife takes the kids across that junction to and fro from school everyday, I am keen to do something, especially with lighter nights coming. Then at least you can see the headlights. Otherwise it is radio off, window open to hear if anything is coming. Fortunately a lot of people know that there might be cars coming out blind, so don't drive too fast. But that of course is not everyone.

Mirror at junction - Trilogy

Opening your window and listening can be advantageous. You may not be able to see but can often hear a vehicle approaching. :)

Mirror at junction - jamie745

Opening your window and listening can be advantageous. You may not be able to see but can often hear a vehicle approaching. :)

What if its a Prius? :P

Mirror at junction - concrete

I wrote to the council a while back to ask whether they could put up a mirror on a junction that is very very difficult to see down (actually impossible). A lot of the locals take a detour but that is ridiculous. Anyway, the council wrote back and said that there had been no crashes there so nothing doing. This isn't correct as we, who live there, all know that there have been accidents.

They also said that a mirror cannot be erected because it isn't DoT approved. Fair enough, but if France can use them on their blind junctions, I can't see why we can't get them approved.

Is there anything that can be done? I only ask as I nearly had my nose taken off this weekend by a speeding motorist.

Fairly typical 'council speak' for can't be bothered because it might cost us more than five quid. If the land opposite the junction, where you wish to site the mirror, is private, then follow previous advice and erect your own with the owners permission. If an accident does occur it cannot really be blamed on the precence of a mirror. After all 'city hall' says you don't need one! Cheers Concrete

Mirror at junction - rogue-trooper

Bit of a bump this one......

The junction is still a right pain in the butt, but recently I was in Wales and on some of the roads there were mirrors erected that seemed to be "official". By that, they had red striped white surrounds and as there were several of them, I am presuming that it is council erected.

Does anyone know any more about the official stand point of these mirrors?

Mirror at junction - rogue-trooper

Did more googling and came up with this: https://beta.herefordshire.gov.uk/transport-and-highways/maintenance/roads-maintenance/do-i-need-permission-to-erect-a-traffic-mirror-on-a-road which isn't my council

And my local council says:

Can I arrange for a mirror to be erected to aid visibility?

We are not permitted to erect mirrors on the highway except at traffic signal-controlled junctions where it has been identified that there is a specific risk of large vehicles not seeing cyclists as they make a left turn. These mirrors are not permitted for use in other locations.

Although mirrors are occasionally seen on some roads, these have usually been put up on private land and would not have been provided by the highway authority. Experience shows that mirrors can reduce the ability to judge another oncoming vehicle's speed.

So I guess that is a no then

Edited by rogue-trooper on 13/10/2013 at 01:25

Mirror at junction - Bromptonaut

Although mirrors are occasionally seen on some roads, these have usually been put up on private land and would not have been provided by the highway authority. Experience shows that mirrors can reduce the ability to judge another oncoming vehicle's speed.

So I guess that is a no then

Looks like No in England. Devolution means the rules in Wales may be different.

Mirror at junction - martint123

Local parish council sorted one out (but unsure who paid for it).

Was originally a glass mirror but was replaced with polished stainless steel after breakages (yobs or stones thrown up from cars???).

rhs under speed camera sign streetview tinyurl.com/lgzuxd2

Mirror at junction - Ben 10

I've suggested ideas to improve junctions where we've lived in a couple of authorities after minor collisions occurred. They always trot out the line "there are no statistics, i.e. road deaths, for that particular junction", so your suggestion is binned. Even though we live with a particular problem, they are so stubborn to listen and improve road layouts because its come from a "layman". They just don't like being told by someone who hasn't got a degree in the subject.

I just wish instead of providing excuses, they could look seriously at suggestions by those that actually use the roads on their patch and even make a trip and see what might be a great idea. Only after that should they provide a reason why an idea should not be adopted.

Mirror at junction - martint123

They always trot out the line "there are no statistics, i.e. road deaths, for that particular junction",

They seem to find the statistics for camera sites easily enough.

Edited by martint123 on 14/10/2013 at 17:18

Mirror at junction - galileo

Is anyone familiar with the T junction of the A6024 from Holme Moss to the A628 at Woodhead?

The angle of approach, a curve in the A628 and the ground contour makes it very hard to see westbound traffic on the major road (except at night, when headlights are visible). To pull out safely you need to look left about 100 yards before reaching the junction, a mirror would be quite useful.

Having said that, I don't know how many incidents there are there, maybe just near misses.

Mirror at junction - Collos25

I know this juction well having used it twice a day for a long time although it not the best laid out juction I have never had a problem there and never seen an accident.

Mirror at junction - galileo

I know this juction well having used it twice a day for a long time although it not the best laid out juction I have never had a problem there and never seen an accident.

Respect, Collos, that must have been some commute, would keep brake discs nice and shiny too!

Mirror at junction - rogue-trooper

50.769151,-1.7267 is where the junction in particular is. Streetview shows it up quite well (not that I know how to link to that: EDIT https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ie=UTF-8&q=50.769151,-1.7267&fb=1&gl=uk&hnear=United+Kingdom&iwloc=lyrftr:transit,0x48739b0a96f4b1b5:0xac382d4a3102beac&ei=n6RfUoW8Gs-ChQeQhoDQBg&ved=0CDAQsAUwAA) and it should be remembered that the view given is when your head is level with the end of the junction, so your bonnet and front wheels are in the middle of the carriageway. The locals take it slowly as they know the jct is bad, but get someone who is an "enthuusiastic" driver, and it can be a little concerning.

I am sure people experience worse jcts, but I approach this one - radio off, window open and be prepared to floor it if you get caught.

Edited by rogue-trooper on 17/10/2013 at 10:49

Mirror at junction - galileo

it should be remembered that the view given is when your head is level with the end of the junction, so your bonnet and front wheels are in the middle of the carriageway.

The streetview cameras are also at least 4 feet higher than a car driver's head, so the view is a bit better on streetview.

 

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