Why isn't there a compression ignition petrol? - mss1tw

Just curious about the technical limitations that stop this being possible.

Or is it possible but not suited to use in cars?

Why isn't there a compression ignition petrol? - Bobbin Threadbare

You can get it - it's called 'homogeneous charge compression ignition'. Merc have put one in an S-class and got some decent mpg out of it!

Why isn't there a compression ignition petrol? - unthrottled

Every man and his dog has been playing with HCCI, Bobbin! The range of operation is quite small. It won't work at very low load, very high load, or high engine speeds.

Why isn't there a compression ignition petrol? - unthrottled

There is. It is called Homogeneous Charge Compression ignition (HCCI). It has been five years away from commercial reality for the last thirty years.

The issue is that petrol does not readily self ignite like diesel. This means that the ignition delay is very long so the fuel will be completely mixed before it autoignites.

The good news is that NOx and partculate matter emissions are very low. The bad news is that the fuel explodes in an uncontrolled fashion and an HCCI engine sounds like a jack hammer when you apply any load. At idle, the cO and HC emissions are high.

Why isn't there a compression ignition petrol? - mss1tw

I knew I could rely on you lot! :-D Cheers

Why isn't there a compression ignition petrol? - Bobbin Threadbare

Hah when I was posting that I just absolutely knew that unthrottled would try to beat everyone to it.

Why isn't there a compression ignition petrol? - TeeCee

The other big issue here is that you have just removed one of the most effective ways of controlling a petrol engine to get either peak output or best economy at given revs, the ability to advance and retard the ignition.

Also it breaks Rule One: If it ain't broke, don't fix it......

Why isn't there a compression ignition petrol? - unthrottled

Peak output=best economy as far as spark advance is concerned!

Theoretically, one can control the point of autoignition precisely by varying the intake temperature via uncooled EGR. In practice, it is not very precise when an engine output is in a transient state-which it often is.

Why isn't there a compression ignition petrol? - Big John

I used to have an old Ford Zephyr 2.5 v6 that did a good line in compression ignition. After turning off the ignition it would run on and on and on and on and on................

Why isn't there a compression ignition petrol? - unthrottled

According to some, if a petrol engine is run on supermarket fuel, it'll immediately turn into a compression ignition engine.

Why isn't there a compression ignition petrol? - bathtub tom

I understand some dragsters melt their spark plugs part way through a run and continue on the molten remains igniting the fuel.

Does that count?

Why isn't there a compression ignition petrol? - unthrottled

Nope-it's not controlled!

I think it's the exhaust valve which acts as a glow plug. The spark plug (they're not your KGN platinum tip!) does burn out but it doesn't melt. The engine survives because it runs nitromethane to air on a roughly 1:1 ratio-almost 80% rich! And a run is only 5 seconds.

Why isn't there a compression ignition petrol? - 1litregolfeater

I can't see the point of it, you should be asking why there is no spark combustion diesel.

There are many technolgies available to the car producers, which they allow according to their own maximum-profit regime.

In alliance with the oil producers, they care only for their own wealth.

Why isn't there a compression ignition petrol? - unthrottled

In alliance with the oil producers, they care only for their own wealth.

As opposed to the rest of us that work only for the good of disabled orphans? This is the sort of nonsense you see on cif at the Graun.

There is sound reasoning behind a compression ignition petrol, but the reality is that the implementation is extremely difficult.

Why isn't there a compression ignition petrol? - RT
There is sound reasoning behind a compression ignition petrol, but the reality is that the implementation is extremely difficult.

There's a lot of engine designs like that and don't get past the prototype or development stages.

Why isn't there a compression ignition petrol? - unthrottled

Yes, but HCCI is the only one really worth bothering with since it successfully addresses the efficiency problem of a conventional petrol and the emission problem of a conventional diesel. It also uses entirely conventional architecture. That said, I'm not entirely hopeful.

Most prototype engines seem to address a problem that exists only in the designer's head. The revetec crankless engine for instance. The creater of this masterpiece is convinced that the crank assembly is responsible for a great deal of inefficiency in a piston engine and set out to solve it with contra-rotating cams. They've actually built and tested of these designs which puts it in a very rare breed. Beautiful machine-but based on a premise that is quite wrong!

Then there are the ones who can't even get their thermodynamics 101 straight and pursue hopeless tasks like trying to 'capture' exhaust heat and turn it into useful work. the 'six stroke' engine falls into this catagory. No one has thought of that before...

Why isn't there a compression ignition petrol? - SteveLee

Forcing the use of catalytic converters for petrol cars killed the lean burn and compression-ignition development paths stone dead, cats require a relatively rich fuel mixture to maintain high exhaust temperatures to keep the cat "lit up".

Why isn't there a compression ignition petrol? - unthrottled

3 way cats don't help, but it's not an EGT problem. 3 way cats can't reduce NOx if there is oxygen in the exhaust. That is what killed conventional lean burn. If you run slightly lean (say up to an AFR of 25:1) cylinder temperatures are high enough to generate NOx. If you go leaner, spark ignition doesn't really work.

HCCI can operate at ultra lean mixtures which keeps cylinders below about 2000K so NOx production is low-hence no need for 3 way cat.