Any - Variable Hyperbole improves Low End Expectations - unthrottled

It starts with a Solid Works animation. This is never good. Graduate trainees can create 'working' Escher constructions on Solid Works. No mention of a working prototype.

The usual promises of Big Engine performance from Small Engine package. Improved fuel economy etc etc.

We've already got the technology for low RPM boost. It's called a rootes Blower. The latest ones are quite efficient. And you can easily vary the boost from zero to maximum with a simple bypass valve. And yet carmakers have dumped it in favour of the turbocharger.

In short, this little foray has no future. How sad to see (a British) company wasting time trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

No wonder we don't make cars.

Edited by unthrottled on 19/01/2012 at 11:27

Any - Variable Hyperbole improves Low End Expectations - dieseldogg

Erm,

Unthrottled.......but we do.......make cars, that is , in the UK ( & engines too) per news this morning production up 5.8% ( he recalls?) per SMMT

Cheers

M

Any - Variable Hyperbole improves Low End Expectations - unthrottled

But they're foreign owned and designed though, aren't they? It's only the production line that's in the UK.

Any - Variable Hyperbole improves Low End Expectations - Auristocrat

Nissan, Jaguar, Landrover and MG have design centres in the UK.

Any - Variable Hyperbole improves Low End Expectations - ChannelZ

The people in Ford's Daganham diesel engine centre would say they're very much at the forefront of design and build in the UK.

Any - Variable Hyperbole improves Low End Expectations - unthrottled

They would say that, wouldn't they! To me it looks like PSA do most of the engine design. The common rail fuel injection system and the turbo are of course designed and engineered out of house.

Any - Variable Hyperbole improves Low End Expectations - galileo

We've already got the technology for low RPM boost. It's called a rootes Blower. The latest ones are quite efficient. And you can easily vary the boost from zero to maximum with a simple bypass valve. And yet carmakers have dumped it in favour of the turbocharger.

With respect, unthrottled, for diesel engines for commercial vehicles a properly designed and matched variable geometry turbocharger surely gives better overall efficiency than a Roots blower?

The most efffective and durable such unit was designed, developed and manufactured here, an export success.

Any - Variable Hyperbole improves Low End Expectations - unthrottled

With respect, unthrottled, for diesel engines for commercial vehicles a properly designed and matched variable geometry turbocharger surely gives better overall efficiency than a Roots blower?

I think the last one was was the Cummins NHRS which was removed from the cummins catalogue in the late sixties. I've done quite a bit of work on HD diesels, so I'm quite well aquainted as to how they are aspirated, thanks. I never claimed that a roots was a suitable device for supercharging a diesel engine.

I think the designer of this device had small displacement petrol engines in mind-where the feedback loop of the turbo is more noticeable due to the wider rev range and low rotatioinal inertia of the engine.

But the device is conceptually weak.

BTw-which turbos are designed and developed in the UK. Holset?! They were bought out by cummins years ago. Garrett and Borg Warner are the big players in automotive turbos-and have been for a long time.

Any - Variable Hyperbole improves Low End Expectations - galileo

Unthrottled, you are (as usual!) correct .

Holset were bought by Cummins (from James Hanson) in 1972 but Holset turbochargers rapidly superseded the old Cummins designs on Cummins engines as well as continuing to supply most European truck makers.

Holset experimented with passenger car turbos way back but figured it was more profitable / in line with the owner's core business not to go the passenger car route.

The current Holset Variable geometry turbos were originally supplied to Iveco, not sure how many others now use them?

Any - Variable Hyperbole improves Low End Expectations - unthrottled

Holset experimented with passenger car turbos way back but figured it was more profitable / in line with the owner's core business not to go the passenger car route.

Bet they rue that decision! Isn't it ironic that today's state of the art passenger engines are fundamentally based on 1960's truck engines? (Diesel, direct injection bowl-in-piston, HP turbocharged etc)? Formula 1 are still irrelevantly buzzing away at 19000 RPM and no one is listening.

Any - Variable Hyperbole improves Low End Expectations - Pondlife
We've already got the technology for low RPM boost. It's called a rootes Blower. The latest ones are quite efficient. And you can easily vary the boost from zero to maximum with a simple bypass valve. And yet carmakers have dumped it in favour of the turbocharger.

Except for Mercedes it seems. Does anyone know why Mercedes use superchargers when just about everyone else uses turbos?

Any - Variable Hyperbole improves Low End Expectations - tony g
It used to be because supercharging produced no lag ,unlike the early turbos.

I think,but then the technical thing is a lost world to me.

Regards

Tony g
Any - Variable Hyperbole improves Low End Expectations - unthrottled

I think they've pretty much all gone now. The turbo dominates in every game in which it is allowed to compete.

Turbos are lighter, cheaper and more reliable. Lag? Yes, there's lag but it's a price worth paying.

Audi uses a new stye 4 lobe roots in its 3.2 V6 engine. The marketing men will says its for the throttle response. In reality the engine bay isn't wide enough for the efficient placement of a turbo. Chevrolet use a similar style of blower on the ZR1 corvette for the same reason.

Mazda gave up on the twin screw compressor many years ago. MINI also switched from a blower to turbos years ago...