That's interesting, Bill! Last week my daughter had two Pirelli tyres fitted by a branch of Central Tyres that I normally have a fair respect for. She asked for the new ones to be put on the back and the half-worn ones on the front but Central argued that the best tyres should always go on the front because "they are the wheels that do the steering".
She phoned me and asked what to do. I told her to stick to her guns and advise Central to look at the safety recommendations on their parent company's website (they are owned by Pirelli). Central then fitted the new tyres to the rear as she had asked.
I wonder how many hundreds of Central customers have had tyres fitted in a position that contradicts their parent company's technical advice!
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Sounds like a letter to their head office is in order - giving out dangerous advice. Think how much you could sue them for!
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I agree, Cyd, it is potentially dangerous advice.
However, having criticised the local branch of Central Tyres on this issue, I would also like to say that they have been excellent in all other respects in the many years that I have dealt with them.
Regarding MM's point about the tyre-positioning problem where the part-worn tyres may be high quality and the new ones may be 'budget' - I don't know the answer to this but I'm amazed that people fit budget tyres at all. Not only do we depend hugely on the quite small 'footprint' that each tyre puts down on the tarmac, but budget tyres generally wear out faster in my experience.
I remember buying some Dunlops for my 'hot' Morris 1000 some years ago. These wore out in 12,000 miles so I then went for the cheaper Indias made by the same company and with the same or similar tread pattern. These lasted just 6,000 miles!
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sounds like the lazy s*ds at the place didn't want to spend the extra 5 minutes swopping the wheels and re-balancing ...
Oh, That's another one for the motoring myths:
Our local hoodlums advertise a price for tyres, then in the small print:
"Nominal charge for balancing and fitting"
Nominal being 15% of the bill!
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A lot of good safety sense has been deposited in this thread, but the fundamental problem will continue to appear because
(a) buying tyres - even 'budget' ones, and especially on big fat wheels - is painful, and economies will always be made wherever possible;
(b) most cars are FWD, so fronts wear out about 3 times faster than rears. New tyres will automatically go on the 'wrong' wheels, unless a two-way switch is demanded;
(c) there is no way to balance out the need for replacements at the front with that for 'best' tyres at the rear, except by dumping tyres with plenty of life left in them.
I suppose a long-term solution is to get two 'best' long-life tyres for the rear, and 2 or 3 times replace the fronts with cheap ones. Next time move rears to front, and start again. Problem is - who bothers with long-term solutions?
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Hi again, just an update. I checked the size of the tyres before ringing a few places for quotes today, and I saw that the back tyres are a different size from the front ones! Rear tyres are 215 60 R15, while the front ones are 225 60 R15. The handbook recommends either 205 or 225, but not 215. I never thought to check this when I was buying the car, oh well.
I guess this was probably a contributory factor to the rear wheel skid at low speed. Given that the tyres have probably been there for over 12k miles, I wonder if this has done any harm to suspension/tracking etc.
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Well they're finally on - 2 Bridgestone 225 60 R15. Cost £122 including fitting, VAT and balancing, so I don't reckon I was stung too hard. I think I'm going to have to continue with the cautious approach to bends, though - I experienced a slight fishtail pulling into a gap in the traffic when leaving the tyre depot! According to the guy at the depot, the only drawback to having the wrong size on was that my speedo would have read a little higher than it should have.
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Of course the fishtailing might be due to the release agent they use to get tyres out of the moulds. Need to take it easy for the first 50-100 miles until it's worn off - something that's particularly important to remember with new motorbike tyres!
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I turn to this site as the source of all wisdom on motoring matters.
Needing two new tyres (fronts down to 2mm) I searched and found this thread.
Having read all the posts, I was left in no doubt that the new tyres should be put on the back wheels.
Then I looked at handbook for Golf Mk3 and it says: The tyres with the deepest tread should always be on the front wheels!
So now I am not so sure!
UK sites for Michelin and Continental (makes recommended in 'Which?' report April 2000) don't appear to comment on this issue.
Shall I spin a coin?
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No need to spin a coin -- just look again at the websites. I can't get Continental up at the moment but Michelin make it very clear that the best tyres should go on the rear, likewise with Dunlop, etc. It is the tyre industry's standard recommendation.
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Thank-you Dizzy...I owe you one!
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On the grounds that the best grip is with the newer tyre( well after a 1000 miles ) then would you, if you were pushing a bit, prefer to loose the back of the car or the front. There you go it is quite clear that you need the front to stick if FWD and the back although may be out of line will follow. Isnt it stange how your tyres always grip the best just before they are worn out. regards Peter
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>>Isntit stange how your tyres always grip the best just before they are worn out. regards Peter
Only on a dry road. They are called 'racing slicks'! :)
maximum footprint, marginally less profile...
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Yes Ian I meant in the dry and it was a rhetorical question about them being at there best just before they wear put. It is not just the footprint and profile but the compound compliance that helps I own a MkIII golf and I always put the new tyres on the front it keeps the car balanced, I am assuming the same make of tyre I prefere NCT's for the Golf. Regards Peter
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On the grounds that the best grip is with the newer tyre( well after a 1000 miles ) then would you, if you were pushing a bit, prefer to loose the back of the car or the front. There you go it is quite clear that you need the front to stick if FWD and the back although may be out of line will follow. Isnt it stange how your tyres always grip the best just before they are worn out. regards Peter
Can\'t understand your argument, I\'m afraid. Have you not been through the condensed wisdom of the previous posts? If the rear end swings out, it does NOT follow the front if adhesion is lost at the rear. It goes its merry way, pretty quickly, depending on your enthusiasm when entering the bend!
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Lets not go to extremes here. The point is, would you prefer to loose the front end, i.e. it does not turn in to the bend, or you get a loose back end . At least with a loose back end you can correct for it but to loose the front end then you do not stand a chance of getting away with it. Putting new tryes on front or back depends on the FWD/RWD wheel base and type of suspension but there is no doubt that a Golf MkIII with new tyres on the rear will , if pushed too hard, end in tears.
Regards Peter
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All the tyre companies and OEMs put together spend £billions on R+D and making their products safe and then giving out the best safety advice. All these companies universally recommend putting new tyres on the back as the best /safest option overall (taking all sorts of factors and variables into account).
Please explain to me how you are qualified to give out contradictory advice.
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If the back end goes on my FWD Opel, I'd probably be able to do something about it, as I grew up [ok, as I got older!] with RWD cars - Cortina through Sierra through Bmw etc.
But a youngster with only FWD experience would probably have a problem.
Having said that, its 'fit the rears' every time for me!
Makes economic sense as well.
Hypothetically, a front tyre lasts 1/2 as long as a rear on a FWD.
Hypothetically again... Imagine 40 000 from a tyre. New car, new 40 000 tyres. First change, the 40 000 NEW tyres go on rear, the 20 000 rear tyres go on front. etc etc etc. By replacing new on front only, you end up changing 2, then next change changing 4.
Certainly lightens the load on the pocket ...
[I think that makes sense! :) ]
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Hi Cyd,
I'm not giving advice I'm just saying what I prefer and what best suits my car, and in fact what a Golf MKIII hand book tells you to do.
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Peter...I need to replace front tyres on my Golf MKIII...I am thinking of either Michelin Energy or Continental 'Contact EP'.
Which of these would you choose and why?
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Sorry to add a variable but I prefer Goodyear NCT's. Good all round tyre and controlable in the wet, it rains a lot here. 20 to 22 K out of the fronts 185 60 R14s on alloys in the summer and 185 65 R14's Pirelli M & S's on steels and Mk IV Trims. I ski through the winter thus the M & S's. I think I read one of the threads refered to Michelin Energy as being high on read noise double check that. Regards Peter
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