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The probable demise of Saab has made me think about all the marques there are in the world. Are they all necessary and would we miss them if only one marque existed? In reality, we only need one. I've decided which one is the only one required.
I wonder if anyone can guess, or if only one marque existed, which do you think it should be? Mine would have different divisions, but just one marque. :)
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GM ;-)
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I like your humour. :) BTW Happy Christmas. Not GM/Saab for me. :)
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And likewise Trilogy! After all:
t'is the season to be jolly (with lots of bickering about cars to boot)
tra la la la....
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Indeed, btw what do you drive, if you don't mind me asking? :)
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'96 Megane RT
It's doing a lot better than it should-but I shan't be proposing Renault/Nissan as the 'holocaust' marque!
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I have a friend who has had 6/7 consecutive Renaults, either 19s or Meganes. Their Megane, petrol hatch, was due for a cambelt change at 72,000 miles. Unfortunately it snapped at 71,000 miles. £1,000 lighter, they still have the car. The other is an highly specced estate.
Oh dear.................already digressing! :)
Be good to get some more feedback regarding the original post
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The original question presumes that competition is eliminated - I'm not sure that's sustainable although it's not actually being advocated.
Most brand groups work very hard at educating, persuading, advertising, brain-washing us to believe that what they make is what we want - that business model would have to change with a single brand otherwise we'll all be driving the 21st century version of the Trabant.
Using a crystal ball and guessing their model range in 10-15 years time, my vote would go to the Hyundai Kia Automotive Group - ok, they'd need to get rid of a brand so it would just be Hyundai but they do seem to be trying to cover all bases, which is the first pre-requisite of a hypothetical single brand.
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RT has a good point there - Hyundai has everything covered. They've put in little cars, big 4x4 types, a coupé and family estates to their range.
1996!! That is soooo old ;-)
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Soooo simple, soooo cheap.
:-)
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Please tell me it's yellow as well
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Never seen a yellow one! Seriously, virtually all the non-serviceable parts are OEM. Not bad for an unreliable car-'specially when it runs on contaminated hydrochloric acid (aka supermarket fuel). Keep meaning to scrape all the deposits off the valves and injectors-but there aren't any.
Kia only follow where others have gone before. Not sure that would be my #1 choice. I'm still voting GM. My family has had loads of Vauxhalls, all cheap-not one of them was a lemon.
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Did anyone actually buy a coupe?? (obviously one person did)
Still, it claims 42 mpg-and that's what I get.
116mph from 90hp. Renault know their fluid dynamics... :-)
How's the Mondeo?
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How's the Mondeo?
I haven't got a Mondeo!!! Chassis similarities only. I believe it's Ford that uses the Mazda platform....
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Volkswagen, on the grounds that profits would stay in Europe rather than the USA or the Far East.
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Volkswagen, on the grounds that profits would stay in Europe rather than the USA or the Far East.
The profits would dissappear out of the UK very swiftly and completely.
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Hyundai - unforunately not in every sector. :)
VAG is good, but doesn't really offer what most people want on a consistent basis. ;)
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Hyundai - unfortunately not in every sector. :)
Not yet in every sector - but then for the UK they don't sell their THREE larger models Azera, Genesis & Equus, nor their Sports Car Genesis Coupe or their biggest SUV, the Veracruz - although these would all need de-Americanising to sell here.
Watch that space!
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the doomsday car will probably be chinese...
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all the marques there are in the world. Are they all necessary and would we miss them if only one marque existed? In reality, we only need one
The evolution of the motor car & internal combustion engine has been due to capitalism, national & international legistlation & ......... competition.
However if I was forced to choose one marque it would be Toyota, as over the years they have produced the cars that consumers want & are prepared to pay for at a high quality whilst remaining a strong financially viable company
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Only one marque?
Lada,it almost happened in the USSR.
Wonder what happened to the moskovitch ?
Tony g
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Toyota cars are good, but that is because Toyota are a very conservative company who sit on the sidelines and wait and see if something is successful before jumping on the bandwagon with the benefit of hindsight.
Most of the developments come from Europe or the US. If car making had been left to the Japanese, we'd still be cranking the world's most reliable Model T by hand!
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If car making had been left to the Japanese, we'd still be cranking the world's most reliable Model T by hand!
Possibly; I'm happy to take your word for it.
I very nearly said exactly what Tony G said (prior to him saying it) that if it were not for competition we'd all be in Ladas or Moskvitchs
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Well, take the diesel revolution that happened about 15 years ago. Japanese companies played absolutely no part in it at all. They sniffed at diesel and only turned their hand to it out of necessity as first business users, then private drivers deserted gasoline in droves.
BMW, Mercedes, PSA, VAG pioneered the acceptance of diesel engines in passenger cars, then Bosch, Borg Warner and Garrett gave them thefuel systems and turbos required to take diesel mainstream.
Even if you think a Honda CRD is the bees' knees-you've got Euro/US companies to thank for it.
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Well, take the diesel revolution that happened about 15 years ago. Japanese companies played absolutely no part in it at all.
No one told Vauxhall and Opel this, they've been using Japanese diesel engines from the 80s and still do now.
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No one told Vauxhall and Opel this, they've been using Japanese diesel engines from the 80s and still do now.
Opel/Vauxhall haven't used Isuzu diesels for a while now - they use Fiat and VM Motori currently.
But even going back to the 1980s, they've used Peugeot and BMW as well.
Edited by RT on 22/12/2011 at 20:55
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Opel/Vauxhall haven't used Isuzu diesels for a while now - they use Fiat and VM Motori currently.
The 1.7CDTI engine they currently fit to Corsas and Astras is designed by?
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Opel/Vauxhall haven't used Isuzu diesels for a while now - they use Fiat and VM Motori currently.
The 1.7CDTI engine they currently fit to Corsas and Astras is designed by?
cracking engine! I brought my Mrs a 57 plate with this engine and thus far it's been super reliable and economical. Quite nippy too as far as things go
I was going to get a vectra with Izuzu's 3.0 diesel lump - but the car is just too ugly, which is a shame
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Opel/Vauxhall haven't used Isuzu diesels for a while now - they use Fiat and VM Motori currently.
The 1.7CDTI engine they currently fit to Corsas and Astras is designed by?
Oh - you mean the OPEL 4EE2 engine which is derived from the old Isuzu 4EE1 from 1990 - yes I'd forgotten that old one.
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Toyota cars are good, but that is because Toyota are a very conservative company who sit on the sidelines and wait and see if something is successful before jumping on the bandwagon with the benefit of hindsight.
Most of the developments come from Europe or the US. If car making had been left to the Japanese, we'd still be cranking the world's most reliable Model T by hand!
The Prius seems to have started mass production hybrids, that wasn't exactly conservative. As for the Japanese being backward in the ways of production, almost every car company now uses TPS (Toyota Production system).
Edited by carl_a on 22/12/2011 at 20:34
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You're right-Toyota Production System is acknowledged as the best in the world-that's why their cars are so good.
50% of new cars sold in Europe (and the UK) are diesel. Hybrid gasoline is a niche market in comparison.
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Hybrid diesel is even more niche !!
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Even with the extra models mentioned here Hyundai lacks the depth in it's range.
Regarding VAG I'm not considering where profits go to. However, a company that employs/manufactures globally, well, including UK will be an asset. Strictly speaking the comany I have in mind doesn't have just one marque. :)
unthrottled, I can now see why you are so pro GM. :)
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Hybrid diesel is even more niche!!
Chiefly because it isn't a very good idea.
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Is that because of the refinement issue? (You hardly notice the petrol engine come in with a Prius, but you'd know about it soon enough with a diesel.)
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No. The precentage gains in fuel consumption are much, much smaller than with hybrid petrol. Hybrid power systems add weight to an already heavy diesel engine.
Peugeot's 3008 diesel hybrid is interesting in that the electric motor is attached to the back axle, in effect providing a basic 4 wheel drive system. No big leap in economy though.
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However it is widely accepted that electric/petrol works well in towns and diesel is better for motorways so in theory a diesel-hybrid should be the perfect car for both?
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It wouldn't do much better in town, Jamie. You end up with a heavy car-which isn't good in start and stop driving. Part of the diesel's problem is that it takes longer to warm up than a petrol. Hybridising it doesn't really help that.
Putting it another way; a hybrid system is only really useful when it cuts out the engine when the engine's efficiency is below about 20%. That is a quite big chunk of a petrol's load/RPM operation, but only a small part of a diesel's. You can't make the same saving twice!
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However at the heavier end of the automotive market diesel electric ( & possibly hybrid) make a lot of sense, since the perfect running condition for any engine is surely at fixed or constant revs with the electrics taking care of peak loads, energy recuperation & varying speeds.
And whilst not exactly "automotive" see Caterpillar's introduction of the D7E, which by any account I have read is an astounding success.
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No!
In both the case of a 'dozer and a locomotive, the advantage of an electric motor is in providing massive 0 RPM starting torque-because getting started is a huge problem. You can't exactly get a 1/2 mile long Freight train moving by slipping a clutch, can you?? Passenger cars do not have this problem and can apply mecanical work directly to the wheels via the drivetrain-which is the most efficient way to do it.
You don't need to be an Einstein to realise that an electric motor is only as efficient as the internal combustion engine that charged the battery-minus the losses incured during charging/discharging the battery-otherwise you'd end up with a perpetual motion machine.
There is no fabled magic speed/load for a 4 stroke diesel. There are efficiency islands-islands which are reasonably large for a typical automotive diesel.
2 Stroke diesels have a much smaller useful operating band -but you won't see those in passenger cars.
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Don't you just love it when a thread goes off track.
unthrottled, you always impress with your techical knowledge. Do you work in the car industry or just have an easy grasp of technical issues? :)
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I think the word you're looking for is anorak.
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Hooray for anoraks, nerds, geeks and..............various other scientists.
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