renault clio '03 1.2 16v - clio '03 idling issue throttle - worth fixing? - scz

I know there are one million queries online about this, but mine is a simpler question!

i have a 50k mile clio,.. THe idling is very poor at the start but then seems to settle and is ok,,

i know there is a throttle body issue, but does fixing this alone more or less guarantee that this issue is resolved or is it just a bottomless list of ''maybe this or maybe that?''

Does the throttle body fix most of the issues or not? And how much is a throttle body fix?

I dont wnat to put money into numerous repair/repairs instead of calling it quits with the car and putting the money into a replacement car? THe car is 8yrs old now.

By the way i have noticed that there is oil soaked in the air filter. Is this related to the throttle body issue or a seperate issue again..>?

If there is more than one issue affecting my car i feel i will call it quits! I have another thread currently about repalcing my clio for a panda (but i know there are power steering issues with that!!)

renault clio '03 1.2 16v - clio '03 idling issue throttle - worth fixing? - Fernando P

You need, first of all, to clear the air filter container and change the air filter as the oil will tend to restrict the flow of air causing problems with idling etc. You need help from someone who has mechanical knowledge to assess the the oil problem..

renault clio '03 1.2 16v - clio '03 idling issue throttle - worth fixing? - scz

i took the air filter out entirely and cleaned the air box.I havent yet replaced the air filter...

I feel the air filter issue is a by-product and not the cause of the problem..THe car only has issues for the first few minutes when idling, not during any driving

(im sure that if there was general air filter issue it would have affected the car during driving , but it never has)

There is oil still comign out fo the empty air filter box. I can see drops on the chassis and road

Edited by scz on 19/11/2011 at 14:17

renault clio '03 1.2 16v - clio '03 idling issue throttle - worth fixing? - Railroad.

50,000 miles, 8 years old. An average of just over 6,000 miles per year, or 17 miles per day. This in any way of thinking is low mileage. When will people learn that low mileage does not mean low engine wear? In fact low mileage means high engine wear. 75% of all engine wear occurs in the first 5 miles of any journey, when the engine is cold and combustion efficiency is poor. Oil in the air filter will be there due to engine breathing heavily. Carbon deposits due to cold engine running will cause the piston rings to gum, and cylinder compression will pass them creating a compression in the crankcase. Oil fumes will then find their way into the air filter, and eventually it will be full of oil.

In basic terms the engine is worn to some degree with all the short journeys taking their toll. You're not going to fix this easily or cheaply so the best thing is to keep it running the best way you can.....

renault clio '03 1.2 16v - clio '03 idling issue throttle - worth fixing? - scz

that's bad news to a certain extent, but also excellent very welcome advice for now and for later. I never correlated low miles to higher engine wear - especially with the small -ads ALWAYS hyping ''low mileage'' cars..I always assumed low miles was a good thing rather than bad when considering a used car,

I suppose with that in mind if you saw an 07 panda with 20k miles it could well be in a worse state than one with 40k - bearing in mind if the cars were generally maintained in the same fashion.?.

And if this is the case, it goes against the pricing of used cars where low miles examples have a higher price, and is usually seen as a reason to make the car seem more appealing!?.

YOur answer clearly puts forwards a good argument as to why my thinking has been wrong.

Perhaps you could answer this - At what point would you deem the tipping point in the other direction be ? I.e. At what stage does a car that is well maintained and has done a good 10k/12k miles a year , for example, start to go the other direction towards too high miles to make it a good useful 2nd hand proposition? Do you then consider purely the age of the car?

Interesting topic.

renault clio '03 1.2 16v - clio '03 idling issue throttle - worth fixing? - Railroad.

SCZ, my point is this. Low mileage cars would've done far more short journeys than high mileage ones because it isn't possible to accumulate a lot of miles by just going to the local shops and back. There's no doubt that the best engines are found in cars that have clocked up a lot of miles in a relatively short period. Cars have internal combustion engines which work by generating and making use of heat. Railway engines give very little trouble because they are always running and clock a lot of miles. A car which is driven on a motorway everyday for a couple of hundred miles at a time will always be running at the optimum temperature, and therefore well run in. The combustion chambers will be clean due to the efficient burning of the fuel. The amount of carbon that engine produces will be kept to a minimum, and the engine oil and exhaust system will be warmed throughout. The fuel injectors (and spark plugs if it's a petrol engine) will remain in good condition, and because combustion is efficient the oxygen sensors and catalyst will also be working properly. Carbon is a by-product of combustion, and more carbon is produced by a cold engine because of combustion inefficiency. It's this carbon that causes the engine oil to blacken. Carbon is also collected by the oil filter. The filter can only hold so much carbon and eventually it will de-grade the oil and turn it to a paste, which rather than lubricate the engine's moving parts will help to wear them more quickly. Regular servicing is essential in all cases, but the manufacturers claims that the car will go X0,000 miles between services goes out the window on cars that just don't do the right kind of mileage. Emission problems and Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) illuminated on the dash are far more common on low mileage cars for the reasons I've pointed out.

Hydrocarbons is the amount of unburned fuel present in the exhaust and we measure it in parts per million (PPM). Ideally this figure should be as close to zero as possible, but on cars from 2002 onwards the MOT maximum limit is 200 PPM. The higher the figure the more inefficient the combustion.

The biggest drawback with high mileage cars is the interior tends to show signs of wear where low mileage cars don't.

renault clio '03 1.2 16v - clio '03 idling issue throttle - worth fixing? - scz

I appreciate the thorough response..

Im not a mechanic but always enjoy reading a clear technical response from a very practical perspective.,, so thanks for that.

I have changed my perception of what i have, until now, ALWAYS looked for in a car..!

I suppose my final thought, bearing in mind all you have said is.....Are there any particular engines that could be more suited to low miles, as i'm afraid that is all i do. For example a 1.0L or Diesel etc...

Is a more modern and small engine (if maintained correctly or even more often than manufacturer suggested), better if only using the car for short journeys is an inevitability ?

renault clio '03 1.2 16v - clio '03 idling issue throttle - worth fixing? - Railroad.

No internal combustion engine is ideally suited to short journeys, but I would say that a small petrol engine would be the least unsuitable. A small engine will warm up more quickly than a larger one. Regular and proper servicing does pay in the end. Electric cars have still never really happened, and I seriously doubt that they will. But they would be most suited to round the town short hops.

Diesel engines are still as dirty as they ever were, but today's emission standards require them to be much cleaner and less polluting. This can be achieved by managing the use of a 'Diesel Particulate Filter' which is a part of the exhaust system. Soot produced by combustion is collected and stored in the filter, and a process known as 'Regenerating' clears the filter under certain operating conditions. This is usually when the car is travelling at a constant speed, with the engine at normal temperature over a certain period of time. The Engine Management System monitors the pressure difference either side of the filter, and when the difference reaches a certain point then the regeneration process can by employed. This will never happen if the car is only ever used for short trips. The filter will eventually become blocked which is a problem waiting to happen, and an expensive trip to the dealer will then be necessary. So a post 2008 diesel car is not really suitable for your kind of use.

renault clio '03 1.2 16v - clio '03 idling issue throttle - worth fixing? - scz

No internal combustion engine is ideally suited to short journeys, but I would say that a small petrol engine would be the least unsuitable. A small engine will warm up more quickly than a larger one.

With that thought, what use is the idea behind a 1.0, 1.1 ''city car'' ? Surely they are not designed to fail? And if what you say is the case what would you consider useful - a 1.2 or 1.3?

I have today been talking to a couple of mechanic friends (with no loyalties in any particular area!) and they say almost the exact opposite to the comments above! One of them has run a Yaris for 8 yrs, with 2 or 3k miles a year a the maximum, with NO faults. The other saying that modern engines are more suitably set up to cater for small journeys. Surely if a car is designed marketed and sold as a City car it shoud operate within that criteria - Afterall what 1.0L car is designed to drive high motorway miles ?)

They said the issue with my car is unlikely to be attributed to the low miles type of driving i am doing, although i admit that it cant be the ''ideal'' combination for a healthy engine.

renault clio '03 1.2 16v - clio '03 idling issue throttle - worth fixing? - Avant

I don't think that your mechanic friends are necessarily disagreeing with what Railroad has very helpfully explained. Short journeys aren't ideal for internal combustion engines, which last for longer if regularly warmed through; a petrol engine is, for several reasons, undoubtedly a better bet for low mileages than a diesel.

If you're buying secondhand, there will always be an element of risk as to how well the car has been treated by the previous owner(s). Low mileage might mean used only at weekends for longer trips (fine) or used every day for short runs (less so). Japanese cars like the Yaris and Jazz seem to withstand abuse and neglect better than European ones, so the risk element is to some extent reduced.

Edited by Avant on 20/11/2011 at 23:52

renault clio '03 1.2 16v - clio '03 idling issue throttle - worth fixing? - scz

DOnt get me worng..it wasnt criticism of the above replies. QUite the opposite..The guys on the forum have been extreemly helpful..

I suppose i put up the repsonse i got from my contacts, for the benefit of others who may read this. It proves there is neither a right nor wrong answer..! But as you say every car needs looked at on its merits..THe idea that a car could be doing long distances at weekends is an idea i hadnt considered (and as you said could in itslef contradict the notion that low miles are detrimental) , but i suppose you could never really prove it !

All i can say is that from what i have learned here, i have at least arrived at the conclsuion that Japanese might be better than a cheaper European option for this style of running.

I am considering a Mitsubishi Colt at the moment as for £2500 - £2700 they seem reasonably plentiful here in NI , whereas Jazz, yaris, aygo, fabia, are not at the same money...

.THe forum and press makes it seem a reaosnably good choice. thanks

 

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