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I think the Renault Dauphine gets the prize - has anybody seen one in the last 40 years?
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Yes. At classics on the common, Harpenden, this year.
I'd forgotten about them until I saw it.
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To be honest though most cars manufactured in the 50's, 60's and 70's were very prone to the rust muncher. The worst for me was a Datsun 100A as it had so little metal to start with.
The 100A lasted longer as the mechnics were more relaible.
THE rust bucket of the decade though surely was the BMC 1100. The rear sills and subrames were perforated by 4 years old...
(BMC had lousy paint plants at the time - outdated, and inefficient)...
Of course, Mark 2 Jaguars were little better .
But worst of all by far was the E Type Jag: - doors, sills, etc.. You could sit in one and press the carpet on the sill and feel the rust!
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Of course in those days most cars were in the scrapyard before they had done 100k miles because the mechanics were worn out. 300k was common in recent years, especially with diesels, until the most modern crop of cars so the bodies had to last. Now we seem to have gone backwards.
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The lack of arch liners was definitely a major cause of rot. The various mud trapping ledges under wings, combined with poorly protected, low grade metals almost guaranteed premature rusting. A mechanic i knew, worked at the Rolls Royce transport garage in Derby. This was until about 1961. One of the company RR cars was involved in a accident with a Vauxhall Victor. The RR driver was at fault, so it was agreed to fix the Victor f.o.c. in the company garage. While the repairs to both cars was going on, my friend measured the thickness of the metal. I can't remember how thin the victor was now, but it was flimsy compared to the RR which had paint .025" thicker than the paint and metal combined on the Victor.
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"THE rust bucket of the decade though surely was the BMC 1100. The rear sills and subrames were perforated by 4 years old..."
Don't forget the good old Mini. I remember having to weld one of these up for someone as a favour as I had been using his garage for years. Absolute nightmare - It was so bad I had to start in one corner working my way 360 deg around the car until I was welding back onto the first panels I had installed. It should have been scrapped but I couldn't really say no. Ironically the only intact under body work were the subframes and surrounding area as they had obviously been repaired before.
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We had a Mini Estate bought 3 years old and sold it still unwelded when 14.
The secret? Thorough cleaning, install front wheel arch liners from a kit and throughly clean underneath then waxoiled underneath and in all seams. Regulalry wash it and treat any rust..
It was still on original engine , gearbox, clutch and brakes when we sold it. But one exhaust system every 2-3 years (a stainless one lasted 5), one new fuel tank.(rust) and lots and lots of suspension bushes/rubbers and one set of front ball joints. one timing chain (no tensioner fitted then as cost saving) , and various rubber hoses.
Shows what could have been done.. although the trims over the sill welds had been replaced twice due to parking damage.
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I used to fill the sills of my old Minis with old engine oil. A fair bit would leak out but it saved the sills from rusting through for many years.
I wonder how today’s cars with plastic covers over the sill will fare in the future. I think we have introduced new rust traps witout realising.
Q.
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To be honest, few manufacturers' cars (apart from maybe M-B, Saab and Volvo) were immune to rust in the 60s / early 70s.
My dad had an NSU 1200 (not the medical condition, the rear-engined car) that was more filler than bodywork, and that vehicle was heavily over-engineered in many respects, apart from body cavity protection.
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I believe it was Italian steel on the first Victors bought extremely cheaply and had a vey low carbon content rust was in the metal before it ever saw a press,
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Italian steel woul make sense.. See melting Fiats of the 1960s and the Lancia Beta saga..
Of course, MB cars 1995- 2005 are modern rot boxes and some of the worst I have ever seen..
As far as planned obsolesence, anyone buying a MB car has had that from the 1990s with melting wiring, sticking injectors and failing glowplugs impossible to remove...
BMW heater controls are similar...
Buy Japanese as the parts last longer and are easier to fit.. and they don't rust (now) except for Nissan .
Edited by madf on 21/11/2011 at 12:30
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Not always…
Brother had a Pug 406 Hdi 160k in his ownership, 270k when sold. No waterworks problems under his ownership, no engine problems either.
His wife’s Yaris, brought from new, required a water pump at 40k. The Honda Accord (built in Japan) that replaced the Pug required both headlamp units replaced, admittedly done under warranty. It currently has an idling/slow running fault.
My Toyota Corrolla 10 years old, but bought with only 50k on the clock, required a vacuum advance unit, had a faulty distributor, had both tailgate struts shot, a rear lamp unit that filled up with water when it rained, an intermittent fault with the starter and a leaking rear brake cylinder. The valve guide seals were also worn, but must be put down to its previous low annual mileage and short journeys. When put right, it was a good little car, eventually failing an MOT due to rust.
I just wanted to put a different case to the Japanese perfect, everyone else rubbish mantra that keeps getting spouted on this forum.
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I just wanted to put a different case to the Japanese perfect, everyone else rubbish mantra that keeps getting spouted on this forum.
It's impossible for individuals to use their limited experience and draw conclusions - most car component failures are random rather than occuring at set miles - even wear-related failures vary enormously depending on the use pattern of the vehicle. So one person may have a good experience of a car's ownership while another has a run of bad luck.
Consolidated statistics are much better but of course no manufacturer releases their warranty claim information and even they don't know about the failures outside warranty.
In 40 years of car ownership, mainly Ford and Vauxhall, but including Hillman, Fiat, Subaru and Hyundai I never had a car than I wanted rid of before it's time. The best for lack of faults was a 2006 Subaru Outback closely followed by a 2000 Vauxhall Astra.
Having bought a Hyundai to replace the Subaru, I am hoping that it's the Japanese that they're following.
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My Toyota Corrolla 10 years old, but bought with only 50k on the clock, required a vacuum advance unit, had a faulty distributor, had both tailgate struts shot, a rear lamp unit that filled up with water when it rained, an intermittent fault with the starter and a leaking rear brake cylinder. The valve guide seals were also worn, but must be put down to its previous low annual mileage and short journeys. When put right, it was a good little car, eventually failing an MOT due to rust.
I just wanted to put a different case to the Japanese perfect, everyone else rubbish mantra that keeps getting spouted on this forum.
So you quote a 10 year old car as an example?
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Japanese longevity / reliability
I have 2 x Japanese cars - both are Japanese make and made in Japan. I have had 3 x previous Japanese cars and in total they have cost little in some 20 years in repairs and some have done over 100K, admittedly all bought new / under 2,000 miles. None suffered from rust in my ownership although the Xedos has recently produced a bubble on the rear wheel arch.
Xedos needed 2 x fan belts and 2 x new dipped beams + parking light bulb in the last week-however £100 on wear and tear on a 13 years old car is a small price compared to £1500 and a 3 year old MB for a fuel pump @ 50,000 miles and £500 wiper motor replacment.
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So you quote a 10 year old car as an example?
No, I gave two other examples of selective failures of vehicles from Japanese vehicles that I know of to make my point that they are not perfect.
I am not “trashing” those vehicles, or manufacturers. I don’t deny that the Corrolla didn’t have its good points, even at that age. I don’t even discount my next car purchase being from those manufacturers.
I’ve kept several vehicles to over 10 years and over 100k. The Toyota was better in some respects, worse in others.
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http://www.reliabilityindex.com/manufacturer
tells all you need to know about reliability..
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http://www.reliabilityindex.com/manufacturer
tells all you need to know about reliability..
No, it only tells you about cars out of manufacturers' warranty which have another warranty taken out. - which is why so many models are missing.
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"I used to fill the sills of my old Minis with old engine oil. A fair bit would leak out but it saved the sills from rusting through for many years."
I agree with the use of engine oil although it is best to use new (but cheap) oil as old engine oil can be corrosive. I remember helping someone rescue and old engine for a 1920’s Morris Bullnose which had been dumped in a barn on an angle. The part of the crankshaft that had been left immersed in the old engine oil was left badly damaged by corrosion.
I used to inject enclosed box sections and sills with a warm waxoyl/oil mixture and protect the underneath by painting on oil all over the exposed underside, leave for 24hrs to soak and then paint waxoyl underseal over the top. Yes this does cover/mix but traps oil in gaps/welds where the underseal doesn’t quite reach. Makes one hell of a mess though!
I recently re-visited a 1968 Morris 1000 that I restored for someone in 1988. The metal that had been replaced at the time (sill structures, most of the rear chassis, wheel arch mounts, side panels between doors and wings + much more) still looks perfect. Infact I still got my hands covered in sticky black goo when I replaced the fuel pipe as part of getting it started again (Hadn’t run for 6 years – sounds great now). The bits that have started rusting now are the bits that were perfect at the time - not too bad really when you consider 23 further years have passed by.
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Oh yes, Waxoyl / oil mixture. Absolutely vile stuff to apply but it does the job.
With my old BGT I found a classic car garage that applied this mix into cavities and box sections using a high-power compressor and a series of spray probes that atomised the mixture ... but they would only do it when they had no other cars in the workshop because the mist got EVERYWHERE :)
I had the car for two years after the treatment, and on very warm days, Waxoyly goop would drip from the sill drain holes, so the stuff was still 'creeping' and protecting!
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I have used the 'oil' method since the '50s and still do. Its excellent for hollow panels such as doors and sills as it creeps into the seams which is usually where the rust starts. I have a couple of Citroen XMs from '96, one my son drives the other I do, my sons has not had regular oil treatment and the sills are rotting, mine has and they are not.
For flat areas something stick is better, oil and waxoil as suggested is good. If you apply straight waxoil it can set before its got into the crevices. I oil mine about once a year and there are usually traces of the previous years application,
if the metal is covered in oil it cant rust so any rust you see will be halted when oil is applied.
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When I had Fords in the '60s and '70s, I used to Waxoyl them but didn't need to bother since I changed to Vauxhall in the '80s. They didn't suffer as the factory treatment was good enough.
I guess Fords have changed since then as well.
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I guess Fords changed since then as well.
I hope the latest Ford Ka is better rustproofed than the previous model!
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One tip on waxoiling doors and inside sills. Apart from ensuring the mix is warm when applying, dilute it with 20% white spirits.. makes it far less viscous and far more likely to flow intocrevices.
Ensure lots of newspaper under the car for a couple of weeks tho as you get LOTS of drips.. and a very pungent - and inflammble ! smell..
Edited by madf on 23/11/2011 at 18:05
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