1.9 TDI - VW GOLF 2008 08 REG | Motoring discussion | Back Room Forum

Thu 3 Nov 2011 18:55

1.9 TDI - VW GOLF 2008 08 REG - KAS786

Hi,

I am seeking advice from anyone regarding the following problem. I purchased a 2008 VW golf 1.9tdi from a private trader at the beginning of October 2011 for what I thought was good price of £5300. The vehicle had done 95k miles but had a full VW service history.

As the vehicle had done 19k miles since the last service which included a cambelt change in Feb 2011 (mileage was 76k) I decided to pursue a private service which was carried out three weeks ago by a Certified German specialist.

Two weeks ago I was driving the vehicle and it broke down completely. The vehicle was recovered and I was told the crankshaft had broke and a connecting rod. Two options ; first install a reconditioned/replacement engine or secondly go for an engine rebuild. I opted for the engine rebuild.

The vehicle repairs are nearly finished and I have a bill for £1932.24.

I have informed the trader from whom I bought the vehicle and have sent him a copy of the bill.

Can anyone tell me if its worth pursuing him for damages or to maybe contribute towards the final bill. I purchased the vehicle sold as seen and am fully aware of my legal rights, but I'm sure if proved this fault was present when I purchased the vehicle than maybe I can obtain a few quid?

Can any legal heads out there provide any sound advice please?

Thanks

KAS

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Thu 3 Nov 2011 19:34

1.9 TDI - VW GOLF 2008 08 REG - madf

You will have to prove the service was carried out using the oil recoomended by VW and VW filters.. If not, not a leg to satnd on..

If you have and the guy was a private trader, has he any money? No use pursuing a man of straw.

Assuming he has money, you bought the car "sold as seen". In theory a trader cannot evade his legal responsibilities under teh Sale of Goods Act BUT if your invoice (you do have a full legal invoice for the sale?) was marked "Sold as Seen " you do realsie that in theory means you have exchanged a price reduction in the sp for some of your rights..

Until you go through the above step by step... it is not possible to say where you stand ... in my view.

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Thu 3 Nov 2011 19:59

1.9 TDI - VW GOLF 2008 08 REG - tony g

Hi kas,
Can I presume first that you mean an independent car trader .A ,private,trader is a contradiction .
If you have dealt with a car dealer ,in law their cannot be an agreement between you as a private individual and a car dealer .In that you agree to buy a car from him AS SEEN.
The law says that as a private individual you lack sufficient knowledge to agree to a contract to purchase , that states that you are buying a car as seen .

You can't sign away or agree to give up your consumer rights .They remain in force.

Any claim that you could make against the dealer is subject to the cars age and mileage .A 3 year old car with 95'000 miles is high mileage with or without service history .Would the court give you a third of your bill ,?not really sure.

Finally,you say you have sent a copy of your bill to the dealer ,that will only be viable as a last resort .
You should have asked him in writing in advance ,with copies kept,to repair the car, or pay for the repair,or refund your money , only if you get no response can you send him a bill.

If you have had the car repaired without consulting him and sent him the bill.

You cannot make a claim against him .

It's a complicated business.

Regards

Tony g

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Fri 4 Nov 2011 09:15

1.9 TDI - VW GOLF 2008 08 REG - bonzo dog

Hi Kas, sorry to hear of your problem. A few points if I may:

Assuming this was a "trader" & not a private individual you will have some rights against the seller.
It would be reasonable to expect a 3 year old car, even with 95k, to last more than a few weeks. As such the dealer is liable to repair or replace or refund.
As you have had the work done I guess you want him to cough up £1932.24.
As has been said, you should have informed the dealer prior to you having the car repaired of your problems thus allowing him the opportunity to fix it himself but provided he did not explain this to you at time of purchase, it may be that the courts will side with you
See Barnes vs McGrath (http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/consumer-rights/) which whilst doesn't set a legal precedence gives an indication of how the court may find
So basically you need to go legal

Good luck

Edited by bonzo dog on 04/11/2011 at 09:16

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Fri 4 Nov 2011 11:49

1.9 TDI - VW GOLF 2008 08 REG - tony g

hi bonzo,

reference point 4.

i dont beleive its realistic to expect a dealer to explain that he should have the opportunity to repair a car that he sold. Surely any buyer who bought a problem car would contact a dealer first when a problem occurs.

Two years ago i sold a car that needed a replacement clutch after 4 months.The guy had the work done and sent me the bill without contacting me first .£980 ,with a new flywheel .Common mondeo problem.

I rang trading standards ,who are always helpfull , they confirmed that by not contacting me before having the work done . the buyer had no right to pursue me for any costs .

if this is what the op has done his case is non exsistent.

tony g

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Fri 4 Nov 2011 12:21

1.9 TDI - VW GOLF 2008 08 REG - bonzo dog

Hi Tony,

i dont beleive its realistic to expect a dealer to explain that he should have the opportunity to repair a car that he sold

I don't belive it's realistic to expect this, either. However what you or I believe is completely irrelevent, it's what the courts think that count

Surely any buyer who bought a problem car would contact a dealer first when a problem occurs

Obviously not

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Fri 4 Nov 2011 20:17

1.9 TDI - VW GOLF 2008 08 REG - tony g

Hi bonzo
It's what the court thinks that counts,?

As my previous comment ,It's clear from my dealings with trading standards what the courts attitude is ,if you don't give a dealer the opportunity to resolve an issue / repair a car .you can't then expect him to pay for your repair.

Having said that ,the op has never made it clear that's the case.

Tony g

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Sat 5 Nov 2011 06:08

1.9 TDI - VW GOLF 2008 08 REG - bonzo dog

Hi Tony, you are correct that the courts (& hence trading standards) have for some years now took the view that customers need to give the seller the opportunity to fix the car.

However in the recent Barnes vs McGrath, the court decided this was not necessary.

As the link I supplied says, this was a small claims court & thus does not set precedence.

Nevertheless, my comment is that the court could (as they have now done) view that giving the seller the opportunity may not be required.

Thus again, only the courts can decide.

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Sat 5 Nov 2011 11:32

1.9 TDI - VW GOLF 2008 08 REG - tony g

District Judge Savage hearing the case accepted the honesty of all the parties and ruled that the car had broken down as Barnes had said and that the cost of the repair had been reasonable. ‘While Mr Barnes ought to have consulted the dealer first, as a member of the public he may not have known this and there is nothing in the Sale of Goods Act which requires him to do so’ said the judge.

Hi bonzo,
A truly perverse decision ,if it's inscribed in law it will allow a consumer carte blanche, to charge whatever they think appropriate to a retailer.
What other products could fall into the same arena.

The whole concept goes against what's reasonable and fair .

How can it be that I could incur debt or authorise expenditure on behalf of a third party, who is not aware of what I am doing ,and then has to pay my bill.

It's a nonsense decision that should be appealed.

Tony g

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Sat 5 Nov 2011 22:56

1.9 TDI - VW GOLF 2008 08 REG - bonzo dog