Diesel Family car - cheap tax - Delilah35

Hi there, can anyone help please?

I currently own a 2004 Renault Scenic 1.6 (petrol) which drinks far too much petrol and costs £215 to tax annually - I think this is far too much (not to mention that it has been nothing but costly trouble).

I have a friend who owns a 2003 Citroen Xsara Picasso diesel and pays £120 annual tax. Which is pretty good (although I know there are cheaper).

Anyhow, my hubby needs some persuasion on exchanging (his 2 litre Ford Focus costs even more than mine!) , and we can only really afford to exchange mine, cannot really afford to put anything into it. So I think we may be looking at around £2/£2,500.

Can anyone suggest an alternative fairly good size family car (not huge though), cheap to tax, insure and run.
And am I right that Diesels are cheaper to tax, or is it only some makes and models?

Thanks,

Delilah

Diesel Family car - cheap tax - RT

The cost of changing your car far outweighs any saving in VED which is small in comparison to all your other motoring costs.

Diesel Family car - cheap tax - Big John

Except for the new £400+ car tax upper band from 2006 the cost of car tax is usually the lower of all the other running costs so I wouldn't get too hung up on this.

Spending 2.5k on a diesel could simply buy you a whole load of trouble. At this price they will be well past their best, some of the potential repair costs could way outstrip the purchase price. You may still be better with a newer, cheaper and usually lower mileage petrol car.

If you really must have a diesel stick to earlier technologies. I personally am a great fan of the VW/AUDI/SKODA 1.9 (not 2.0!)Pump Deuse diesels circa 2002-2005 and have a 2003 Skoda Superb 1.9 PD 100(117k) - car tax now £130 - 50mpg on a run.

I also have a Skoda Octavia 1.4 - for a small engine quite nippy, huge boot - car tax now £165 and 45mpg on a run. Still going strong at 100k. Insurance (gp 5) and tyres very cheap. It has proved better than expected as a touring car and has been driven to France, Spain and Italy on numerous occasions. The only problems being that Petrol is more expensive in Europe!

Your true purchase cost (including repairs!) can quickly cancel out savings from tax and fuel costs. Sometimes better the devil you know!

Edited by Big John on 12/09/2011 at 23:28

Diesel Family car - cheap tax - jamie745

I agree with practically everything said above, in fact pop over to my Petrol v Diesel study for an illustration of how diesel sometimes will not save you money. What i didnt do was a test of cars in this price bracket, for £2500, as another member said, you're looking at older diesels with probably quite alot of miles on it and maybe nearing the end of its shelf life. You'll need to be canny, investigate thoroughly and bargain hard.

However, if your Scenic has done nothing but cause you problems then i would recommend getting rid. Its a petrol car in a mid-range tax band, now is the time to ditch it and cut your losses before it gets any worse. You definately need to replace, that much i think we'd all agree on.

You are generally right in that diesels are less to tax, if they're post April 2001 cars then they are taxed according to co2 emissions in 13 bands from A to M as im sure you know. Typically the diesel model will be one or two tax bands lower (but not always, see Vauxhall Zafira!) But i'd forget about the tax, its a very small part of your motoring costs, if you do an average mileage a year im betting your spending around £1800 on petrol for the Scenic, am i right? The tax disc pales into insignificance.

There are still cars to choose from though if you insist on having a diesel, i had a Peugeot 406 HDi Saloon which was bulletproof on reliability and if driven on motorways/dual carraigeways could return 45-50 to the gallon on a good day (mine was an automatic which dented it a bit) and theres a few going for under 2,5 (just seen one on AT for 1400 with 88k on it) but thoroughly inspect the service history and dont buy lightly. Other than that i'd say to avoid anything else French. Theres the VW options as mentioned earlier, i'd probably avoid Ford's as their older diesels were no more economical than petrols. Go on AT and look for diesels with under 80k on them for less than 3k and its slim pickings mostly.

Consider a lower mileage, smaller engined petrol car as well. Quite often the extra you pay to buy the diesel outweighs the day-to-day saving. How big does the car need to be? You say family car but does it require 7 seats?

Diesel Family car - cheap tax - grimep

The rare Fiat Croma (2005-2007) might be the car for you. The 16v 1.9 turbodiesel is the one to go for (8v has less performance for about the same economy). It is based on the Vectra so most of the parts are common, however some owners report problems sourcing spare parts. http://www.fiatforum.com/croma/ for discussions. Some reliability issues, part sourcing issues and only about 1400 sold in the UK means you have to be fairly brave - on the upside you get a family estate/MPV hybrid that is fairly unique, with diesel economy, for very little money.

Diesel Family car - cheap tax - brignac

I personally would avoid a Fiat Croma - why take the risk?

Go for a Hynudai Elantra diesel hatch - plenty in the price range - reliable and cheap to fix.

Or a petrol Avensis estate - loads around. Go for one with the 1.8 early GS lean burn engine and you will get close to 40 mpg comfortable, reliable and cheap motoring.

Lots to choose from, and parts easily got new or from scrapyards etc.

B

Diesel Family car - cheap tax - Big John

The 1.8 engine in the Avensis can die with low mileage. A friend of mine had one replacement engine fitted under warranty and he got rid when the replacement engine started failing a few years later. He also had gearbox problems with his previous one. The Carina before that was bullet proof!

Diesel Family car - cheap tax - brignac

Where is the evidence that the lean burn 1.8 engine in the Avensis was prone to failure?

It was the same engine that was in the 'Bullet proof' Carina. Perhaps you are confusing it with the early VVTI engine which had problems

We bought a 2.5- year-old Avensis (1998) estate with 70,000 on the clock and have just sold it with 180,000 - and the engine was still running perfectly.

It required a new O2 sensor at 150,000 which cost £70, and crankshaft pully at 120,000 - known issue at around that milage - which cost around £100 to fix. Other than that just routine servicing.

No oil required between servicing. Never broke down or refused to start in 11 years.

Lots used as taxis - I rest my case.

Incidentally, we replaced it with another 2006 Avensis which seems even better

B

Diesel Family car - cheap tax - grimep

I personally would avoid a Fiat Croma - why take the risk?

B

Because basically its a Vauxhall Vectra. And I don't think there is another diesel family-sized car out there that you can get so cheap. Looking on autotrader, there's a 55, done 70k, service history, new MOT, good condition, asking price £2,500 which I think is the OP's budget. Yes, its a slight risk, but that's the case with all cars, even when you are blowing £20k on something brand new from a main dealer. If that was my budget, it would be in my top 5 cars to look at.

Diesel Family car - cheap tax - jamie745

Pointing out its similarity with the Vectra wouldnt make me any less apprehensive about it!

Diesel Family car - cheap tax - Avant

At your price level diesels are getting old and are susceptible to expensive failure, despite holding their value better and thus being more expensive to buy, new or used. The best exception to that is the VW/Skoda PD 1.9 rightly praised by Big John above.

I'd go for a Mazda 6 (1.8 or 2.0 petrol) or Skoda Octavia (1.6 or 1.8 petrol or 1.9 diesel).

Diesel Family car - cheap tax - jamie745

Skoda Octavia was always going to get wheeled out wasnt it Avant? :)

Diesel Family car - cheap tax - Big John

I would also personally avoid many older Fords ( excluding the KA at the time but not exactly a family car!) . The Duratec petrol after a certain age (2002?) has the dreaded self/engine destructing swirl flaps and the diesels have poor injection pumps - eventual case hardening failure showering the entire injection system with tiny bits of metal causing repeated injector failure etc... Lots of money to fix- The only way is effectively to replace ALL pump, pipes and injectors together.

Diesel Family car - cheap tax - jamie745

I think the stoneage engines used in the original Ka until its revision were the worst engines ever made and should be avoided like the plague. But overall i find Ford's older engines like the Duratec out of the Mondeo's etc to be pretty solid. Not the most efficient or advanced but reliable enough lumps. The V6 specifically i liked alot.

Diesel Family car - cheap tax - Big John

The old Ford KA engine is a throw back to the original OHV pushrod engine from the Escort MK1 & Cortina MKII ( or even sort of back to the Anglia pre-crossflow!!). It is indeed stone age with the pushrod&tappets usually rattling away. It however is quite robust with a five bearing crank short cam chain and externally mounted cam driven oil pump. Biggest problem on the KA can be spark plugs seizing into the head.

The Duratec engine was a great until they introduced the swirl flaps (circa 2002). These flaps eventually break down dropping from the inlet manifold into the engine usually with catastrophic results. It is however possible to remove the flaps before they cause trouble. I also believe you can also buy an upgraded inlet manifold from Ford. Modified later versions are much better but they can still fail eventually. If you hear a rattling noise coming from around the inlet manifold .....................

Edited by Big John on 15/09/2011 at 23:46

Diesel Family car - cheap tax - jamie745

I had one of the mk1 Mondeo's with the 1.6litre engine which i believe was the same zetec lifted from the Escort, it was woefully underpowered but the car was bulletproof, never went wrong and was pushing 180k when i got rid of it.

Diesel Family car - cheap tax - SteveLee

The Endura was a rattley beast I'll give you that, however in the light KA the torque curve suited the car perfectly, being quite punchy in the midrange (given the engine capacity) in the same way the old A-series engine felt great around town. Enduras are quite fuel-efficient, cheap to fix and can rattle on to high mileages unlike the Kent it is based on which rarely saw 100,000 miles without a full rebuild.

I too like the post Essex and Cologne Ford V6s, a bit rough in places but punchy and reliable - like the PSA EJ9. You have a 3 litre S-Type don't you? The ultimate incarnation of the modern Ford V6.

Diesel Family car - cheap tax - Big John

Essex V6 good engine as long as you are aware of a couple of issues.

1) Fibre cam wheel can fail - usually starts with a knocking noise at the front of the engine. Best to treat like a cambelt and change every few years.

2) Oil pump drive can fail with catastrophic results. Fed via hexagon drive shaft from the base of the distributor , hexagon shaft eventually rounds off.

Diesel Family car - cheap tax - SteveLee

The Essex was juicy, very heavy and underpowered. The "Cossie" version of the Cologne was almost a very good engine.

Diesel Family car - cheap tax - Delilah35

Hi,

I just wanted to thank you all for your detailed responses! We haven't made a decision yet about what to get, but are still doing research and some maths at the same time.

Thanks,

Delilah.x