Any - Cars that don't sell

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Sat 27 Aug 2011 09:59
Any - Cars that don't sell - Trilogy

I've hardly see a Laguna coupe or Citroen C6. Subarus also spring to mind. The last Legacy was a handsome car but latest isn't going to win any design awards. Ditto the Impressher, well that doesn't impress me. II've only seen 3 new Saab 9-5s. So have wondered if the one I spot is the same one, but just in a different location.

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Sat 27 Aug 2011 12:00
Any - Cars that don't sell - RT

Subaru sales are very low because the UK importer, IM Group, has refused to import some of the more desirable versions available elsewhere in the world, ie Japan, Australia and USA - concentrating on lower-powered Legacy and WRX-lookalike Impreza.

The previous Legacy model, 2004-2009, was good looking but a little cramped inside - the subsequent model was bigger but the transatlantic styling does nothing for it.

Subaru were very late bringing out a diesel, but even now it's only available as a 2-litre and only with a manual gearbox and they're only now getting round to using direct injection on the petrol versions to improve consumption, which they all badly need.

Subaru weren't helped by GM's involvement where all development was geared to providing 4wd underpinnings for the ailing Saab, remember the short-lived Saabaru, actually the Saab 9-2X which was an Impreza Estate with a Saab nose and tarted-up dashboard.

Not that Toyota's involvement has been any better, all they've done is take the Impreza underpinning to make a sports coupe, Toyota FT86 but pushed the engine so far back it can never be 4wd so the Subaru sales as the BRZ wiil always be compromised by the lack of 4wd, seen as Subaru's heritage.

I'm a fan of old-school Subaru's having had a 2006 Outback, which was the Legacy estate with off-road suspension, and was a delightful car to drive - but replace it with a 2010 model, no chance!

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Sat 27 Aug 2011 14:20
Any - Cars that don't sell - unthrottled

Big Citroens have never sold well-it is very hard for a badge that is associated with cheap cars to compete successfully with the 'solid' German Marques.

Citroen don't do themselves any favours with their endless price based advertising (0% finance, cashback (why?) etc). This leaves a lingering impression that the only reason to buy a Citroen is that you can't afford anything better. Shame really.

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Sat 27 Aug 2011 14:41
Any - Cars that don't sell - jamie745

Ford Focus Convertible. Hardly ever see one, but if you think about it, why would you? Same as with the Megane convertible, its a pointless object. If you want a nice convertible you buy a nice convertible, not a make pretend one made from a normal hatchback.

Subaru are a fine example of a common theme in Britain, they're super reliable but they dont have the style most British buyers are looking for and hence get passed up. They never break down but lacklustre styling of the Legacy and the painfully long wait for a diesel model has left Subaru unable to compete really. Think about it, if you wanted a big diesel family car you're going to go to Ford, Vauxhall, perhaps BMW etc. If you want Japanese you'll go for a Honda or a Toyota, if you want value you'll go for something Korean, perhaps Kia or something. Subaru will never be top of anyones list. And the only list it was top of, which was street going Rally car the Impreza, has been dulled down, softened in a disgusting display of conformity to make all cars grey hatchbacks. Now its just looks like a Hyundai.

Cars like the C6 will only be bought by that person who wants something different. If you want a big luxury car you go to the usual suspects, Merc, BMW, Jaguar, Audi, Lexus etc or if you want really good value then a big Peugeot usually has it covered. Thinking about it the 607 was an excellent car for the money but do you ever see one?

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Sat 27 Aug 2011 15:14
Any - Cars that don't sell - gordonbennet

The VED changes of 2006 (started in 01) effectively destroyed the sales of the more unusual cars, those like proper Subaru's for example, few people could take the risk of the horrendous depreciation hit when the car aged, add in ever escallating fuel taxes and you have the death of the proper petrol engined reasonably priced car.

Agree with Jamie about Subaru's generally, they used to make traditional looking cars that featured soild and capable underpinnings with in many cases shattering performance that could be safely used given the 4WD system, you effectively bought a wolf in sheeps clothing. The same ethic might be there but the designs are plain ugly (Tribeca) or clones of everyone elses boring hatchbacks (Imprezza). The Diesel could have been a stormer, why didn't they make it 2.5/2.7 4 pot or even a 3 or 3.5 litre 6 pot and offer proper auto box options.

I like unusual cars but i will not have a £450 VED new or used car, unless i bought it so cheaply that the fact it will be scrap value after a few years makes no difference, many people who have bought used cars (RR's, Bentley's etc excluded, different clients) in that VED band have done so without realising before purchase.

For many of us it's keeping these cars going as they age that's the biggest worry, i'd have loved to own a C6, V6 Diesel in blue with cream two tone leather, an extraordinary car but the thought of owning one out of warranty is terrifying, the same goes for lots of unusual cars.

I know they sold few but one car i would buy tomorrow would be a Lexus GS450h, best of all worlds?

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Sat 27 Aug 2011 16:11
Any - Cars that don't sell - unthrottled

That's a good point Gordon. As each company obviously seeks to optimise the compromise between aerodynamics and interior space of their cars, they inevitably converge on a single shape, differentiated only by styling details. It's the price we pay for efficiency.

If Subaru were to offer proper autos, the official consumption would be even worse and it would be unattractive.

Im not sure how much scope there is for Subaru to increase the displacement of their Boxer 4. The width of the Boxer is limited by interference with the steering. This has already forced them to use a shorter stroke than they would like. The engine is already 'square' so boring out isn't atttractive either.

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Sat 27 Aug 2011 16:38
Any - Cars that don't sell - jamie745

Ford Cougar I really liked it, essentially a two door Mondeo in sort of a GT Coupe guise, only two engines and only available in five colours but it was decent value for what it was. I think Ford's failings with the Probe before it and claims of 'new Capri' led to poor sales. Wasnt a great car but better than the Vauxhall Calibra.

Peugeot 607 as mentioned earlier, used 2.2HDi examples with sat nav are going cheap, the few that you can find.

Mazda 6 I know our resident Bobbin has and swears by hers but in my opinion it hasnt sold enough given how good it is. The 6 is a fantastic car and terrific value but most people never realise it because they overlook it.

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Sat 27 Aug 2011 16:41
Any - Cars that don't sell - madf

I drive a 1.4 diesel Toyota. On motorways at 75mph.. And average overall over 60mpg.

Some of the comments above are clealry written by people who have never driven a good small diesel.

I've also driven a 1.4 litre 3 cyclinder Audi A2. Now there I agree: noisy and rough...But hey it's a VW...

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Sat 27 Aug 2011 16:41
Any - Cars that don't sell - jamie745

*Looks around*

Are you sure you've got the right thread?

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Sat 27 Aug 2011 19:22
Any - Cars that don't sell - unthrottled

No, it's just inherent with 3 cylinder engines.

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Sat 27 Aug 2011 17:29
Any - Cars that don't sell - RT

2.5 is the limit for Subaru's boxer four but the boxer six is 3.0 or 3.6 but it's consumption is even worse than the fours!

Anecdotally, all four cylinder Legacy's get around the same fuel consumption, 27mpg, regardless of capacity, how they're driven, manual/automatic, twin turbo/single turbo/no turbo - that's from postings on the UK legacy forum.

Edited by RT on 27/08/2011 at 17:30

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Sat 27 Aug 2011 18:05
Any - Cars that don't sell - Bobbin Threadbare

I've just been up in Scotland, and I've seen quite a few Subaru Foresters, which aside from making me want to sing the 'I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok' song, look pretty solid and obviously handle the twisty roads and the wet well.

Yes I love my Mazda 6 and so it seems do Scottish people; there were more up there than I have ever seen anywhere in England! It's done very well on the winding roads; it handles well even with 4 adults and a load of luggage in it!

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Sat 27 Aug 2011 18:10
Any - Cars that don't sell - unthrottled

Oh, you're back Bobbin! I thought you had gone off for some four play or something!

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Sat 27 Aug 2011 18:28
Any - Cars that don't sell - Bobbin Threadbare

Oh, you're back Bobbin! I thought you had gone off for some four play or something!

No, I tried it but I didn't like it.

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Sat 27 Aug 2011 18:09
Any - Cars that don't sell - unthrottled

Sorry RT-I was referring to the Diesels but I didn't make that clear in the post!

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Fri 2 Sep 2011 23:02
Any - Cars that don't sell - Roly93

Citroen don't do themselves any favours with their endless price based advertising (0% finance, cashback (why?) etc). This leaves a lingering impression that the only reason to buy a Citroen is that you can't afford anything better. Shame really.

Very true indeed, but being in a fiercly competitive industry (telecoms hardware) myself there is such huge pressure to sell on price its like a drug sometimes.

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Sat 27 Aug 2011 18:31
Any - Cars that don't sell - Avant

Welcome back Bobbin - my mother is from Edinburgh and although I've never lived in Scotland I love going there. Subarus must be good for coping with Scottish winters if you don't want a Land Rover. If I were Subaru I'd sack the UK importers, who seem to be making minimal effort to sell cars that do have a USP.

I think the Mazda 6 suffers from being in a segment (Mondeo-size: I think it's called the D-segment) where most sales are to fleets. Fleet managers go for the big discounts that they can get on Mondeos and Insignias (I typed Indignias there - maybe should have left it!). Provided your 6 is a petrol it should last a long time.

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Sat 27 Aug 2011 18:55
Any - Cars that don't sell - Bobbin Threadbare

Thanks Avant. I really love Scotland and Mr B has now fallen in love with it too as we vistied a good number of whisky distilleries.

It is a petrol. Is it ridiculous to find your own car so awesome? I'll be sad to see it go.

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Sat 27 Aug 2011 19:05
Any - Cars that don't sell - Avant

So you cleverly found the way to get Mr B to love Scotland! My grandfather inherited a distillery (Rosebank) and sold the company so well in the 1920s that he never had to work again.

Do you have to sell the Mazda? Sounds more like one to keep.

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Sat 27 Aug 2011 19:13
Any - Cars that don't sell - Bobbin Threadbare

So you cleverly found the way to get Mr B to love Scotland! My grandfather inherited a distillery (Rosebank) and sold the company so well in the 1920s that he never had to work again.

>> WOW! Mr B has a large bottle of Blair Atholl, a Caol Ila, an Aberfeldy and something else which I forget the name of to keep him going.

Do you have to sell the Mazda? Sounds more like one to keep.

No....I could keep it till it dies but I am absolutely itching to try a lot of other cars; I even went to look at some a week or so ago and now Mr B wants a Z4.

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Sat 27 Aug 2011 21:33
Any - Cars that don't sell - Falkirk Bairn

So you cleverly found the way to get Mr B to love Scotland! My grandfather inherited a distillery (Rosebank) and sold the company so well in the 1920s that he never had to work again.

Rosebank distillery is no more , passed it tonight - the distillery buildings are delapidated, the warehousing is a Premier Inn and there are dozens of flats in what would have been Rosebank land along the F&C canal.

Bought a bottle of Rosebank about 10 yrs ago - have not seen any since

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Sat 27 Aug 2011 23:53
Any - Cars that don't sell - bathtub tom

Try getting some Port Ellen!!!

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Sun 28 Aug 2011 22:34
Any - Cars that don't sell - 475TBJ

Getting this back on track the Peugeot RCZ was their answer to the Audi TT, yet you rarely see any. Alfa Brera as well, their answer to TT but now dropped from sale.

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Sun 28 Aug 2011 23:06
Any - Cars that don't sell - Armstrong Sid

Peugeot RCZ was their answer to the Audi TT, yet you rarely see any

Actually I've seen quite a few of them (considering they are never going to be mass sellers); maybe it's a regional thing. In fact I think they look better than TTs, even if they might not be as well built

But my nomination for what you don't see.....I've still never seen any model of Infiniti

But then I'm not sure what they look like so would I recognise it if I saw one?

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Sun 28 Aug 2011 23:29
Any - Cars that don't sell - mickeybay

Just returned from Switzerland. Nearly all the alpine farmers seem to have petrol Subaru estates.

I’m told it’s because they are reliable, relatively cheap there and because they have true 4x4 plus low centre of gravity.

I might have considered one myself, but as someone else said, no auto diesel.

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Sun 28 Aug 2011 23:40
Any - Cars that don't sell - unthrottled

Infiniti? I thought that was a North American only arm of Nissan.

I couldn't buy a car that was a misspelled version of an English word.

The concept of rebranding seems counterproductive. It implies that Nissan is a name to be ashamed of, but you can't escape the name association because the motoring press will (rightly) tell everyone that it is a rebranded Nissan. The only option is to do what Skoda did and begin the slow crawl of rebuilding your brand's reputation.

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Sun 28 Aug 2011 23:46
Any - Cars that don't sell - Avant

I think it used to be USA only but they're over here now. Nissan is trying to do with Infiniti what Toyota has done with Lexus: I'm not sure that that makes Toyota a name to be ashamed of.

Nissan themselves are doing OK with the Cashcow and Juke - offerings which are different in a way that the Almera and Primera never were.

Infiniti's problem is partly that Lexus are there already; partly that for this sort of money most people or companies buy German or Jaguar or Land Rover; and partly that this is hardly the best economic situation in which to launch a new, unknown luxury brand.

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Sun 28 Aug 2011 23:55
Any - Cars that don't sell - unthrottled

But that's the thing, Avant. The Primera, Almera, Sunny...zzzzz may have been catastrophically dull, but they were solidly built and very reliable. That's got to be a better basis for a brand than a misspelled noun that turns even the most illiterate twerp into a seething Lynn Truss.

If Nissan built a 5 series competitor, you wouldn't dismiss it out of hand because it was a Nissan. Once you'd ascertained that it wasn't dull, you would be jolly pleased that it was a Nissan.

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Mon 29 Aug 2011 11:14
Any - Cars that don't sell - 475TBJ

Did you know that Lexus = Luxury export US.

And did you know the visibilty out of an RCZ is better looking backwards than forwards?

Hardly ever see a Mazda CX-7 nor the ugliest 4wd ever produced, no surprise this one......................Subaru Tribeca. It was beautified for other markets but not us. I expect the petrol only engine was a significant hindrance

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Mon 29 Aug 2011 13:54
Any - Cars that don't sell - RT

Subaru Tribeca. It was beautified for other markets but not us. I expect the petrol only engine was a significant hindrance

The Tribeca didn't sell well in the US where the 3.0/3.6 petrol automatic wasn't regarded as a gas-guzzler and sold abysmally in markets where consumption is important. The Subaru Exiga from 2007 would have sold better, particularly with a decent diesel.

www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/firstdrives/22457...l

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Sat 3 Sep 2011 22:06
Any - Cars that don't sell - RicardoB

Laguna coupe. I love the look of this car and have been tempted by a couple that have appeared at car supermarkets for sale.

Trouble is, Renault seem to have picked up a reputation for poor quality (whether that's justified of not, who knows) and like Alfa, people say that their dealers leave a lot to be desired, in the UK.

Then like the Citroen C6 and other nice French cars, public perception/the trade means that the values will drop significantly, though I agree that if you plan to keep a car for a long time, that shouldn't be such an issue. After all, all mainstream cars drop in value too.

And finally, lovely as it looks, so many of the "expert" magazine/press reviewers blight it by banging on about harsh/bad ride, especially on our roads, so regretably, I'll have to be "sensible". (Does anyone know whether it'd be possible to swap the coupe's 18" wheels for, say, 16 or 17" ones as fitted to Laguna hatch/tourer? That might help the ride.

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Sun 4 Sep 2011 03:05
Any - Cars that don't sell - Nickdm

Plenty of used Subarus on the roads in NZ and Australia - they seem well-liked and sought after down here.

Mazda 6 comfortably outsells the Ford Mondeo down here.

They don't seem to sell very many Renaults in the antipodes - I saw a Clio in the UK 2 months ago and I'd almost forgotten what it was! I think Renault's "best" seller in NZ is... the Koleos! How on earth...??!

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Sun 4 Sep 2011 09:30
Any - Cars that don't sell - Trilogy

I expect the Koleos sells best because its 4wd. When I was in NZ in 2009, the first car I saw on the drive into Christchurch was a sandy coloured 70s wedge, Princess! Japanese grey imports seemed to have flooded the market. NZ used to be full of 50s/60s/70s British cars, now its Japanese. I remember the Triumph 2000/2500 as being popular, which no doubt down to them being produced in NZ/Oz.

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Mon 5 Sep 2011 13:58
Any - Cars that don't sell - bananastand

I've just taken the plunge into a Grand Cherokee but I reckon my next one will be a C6.

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Mon 5 Sep 2011 15:18
Any - Cars that don't sell - Falkirk Bairn

Currently mulling over a Legacy 2.5 petrol SENav+ auto - ex demo - Over £29K list- around £22.5K with del mileage (<50 mls) and 6 mths old. Top of model range with lots of toys and £445/yr Road Tax!

After my medical issues I need feel I need an Auto to replace a manual X-trail. A new Auto Xtrail is £30K or thereabouts and just too expensive.

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Mon 5 Sep 2011 18:41
Any - Cars that don't sell - RT

Just remember it's a recently developed CVT - not the bullet-proof autobox of previous Subaru's.

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