Proud of our kids v suspicious of the exam system - davmal
23rd Consecutive rise in GCSE passes. A levels up.
What do we think, are kids getting brighter year on year (in which case , extrapolating back, I must be a real duffer), or is something amiss with the exam system?
Proud of our kids v suspicious of the exam system - jamie745

Its a bit of a shame that people, the media etc spend the entire year commenting on how thick and dumb the youth are, so they work hard to prove us wrong and get excellent grades and we all respond by telling them its further proof they're stupid because the exams are 'so easy'. There is an element of cant-win for the youngsters in this situation. They can only take the exam which is put in front of them. So then they work hard and get A levels and we tell them that makes them stupid too because 'its so easy now' etc etc. Quite what they are meant to do im not sure.

We should give them praise and praise teachers as well, i gave teachers a kicking on here during the strikes but i remember two of mine especially who were brilliant. However, it has to be pointed out that where as exam grades and qualifications have risen brilliantly in the last 23 years, the actual level of ability, aptitude and intelligence perhaps hasnt as employers still prefer older people or foreigners, employers certainly arent convinced. Every parent who did O levels will say 'mine were harder' because they'd hate to admit otherwise and be outdone by their kids but i think in some ways it probably was harder. Harder in the way that it was set up to catch you out, and it literally was pass the test or game over. These days coursework counts to the final grade, you could get a D without turning up because your work over 2 years is taken into consideration. Its geared up more to assure them of the grade their 2 years of work has shown they deserve rather than catch them out at the end to keep Uni numbers down.

As for 'are kids getting brighter' well thats subjective. I think the major issue is schools dont teach kids the things which matter. I remember doing four months on photosynthesis and an entire term on Algebra, very interesting it all was none of it helps me control budgets now at 27. I didnt start learning anything useful until after i left school. Kids need to be taught things about managing money (the financial niavity of youngsters can be alarming), how to cook food properly, how to iron a shirt without burning a hole in it, job interviews etc things like that which they'll actually need.

Book smart yes, street smart no.

Proud of our kids v suspicious of the exam system - Avant

I don't think it's quite as simple as saying, as many do, that exams are getting easier or the syllabuses dumbed down: I suspect that the truth if it is that the way the questions are set has changed so as to demand less thought and more regurgitation of facts learnt. These are easier to mark nd therefore less open to dispute.

The advent of computer-based exams can only make this trend even worse.

Proud of our kids v suspicious of the exam system - jamie745

The exams are structured differently yes, its more a case of merely confirming what they already know rather than being 'tested' on anything. And as with any test its always easy if you know the answer.

Proud of our kids v suspicious of the exam system - ivantheboss

By my opinion there is something wrong with exam system

Edited by Avant on 27/08/2011 at 17:32

Proud of our kids v suspicious of the exam system - Bobbin Threadbare

My youngest sister just got her GCSE results on Thursday. Another quality set!

Proud of our kids v suspicious of the exam system - Avant

Well done to mini-Bobbin - another physicist in the making? She should ignore the snipers - getting good grades at GCSE still means a lot of work in the middle of teenage angst.

She must be about 10 years younger than you - are there lots of sibling bobbins....and at what age do they become threadbare?

Proud of our kids v suspicious of the exam system - Bobbin Threadbare

She is 12 years younger than me, give or take a couple of months. Not a physicist unfortunately but definitely another scientist (earth sciences I reckon, judging by the A-levels she has chosen). It's been interesting to me to see how much the whole school experience has changed compared to when I was at school.

They do have to put in a lot of work at GCSE, whether it seems like it or not. They are very good at answering questions and predicting what might be asked, and critical thinking and reasoned arguments are strongly encouraged, even if the topics might seem total bunk to everyone else! She got the opportunity to do more GCSEs than I did too.

There are 3 of us. If you can imagine 3 of me...........you're probably quite brave.

Proud of our kids v suspicious of the exam system - unthrottled

I thought they were all Threadbares until they were married off!

Proud of our kids v suspicious of the exam system - Armitage Shanks {p}

I am dubious about a system of education and examinations that results in an individual getting 15 A* grades. It implies a wide and shallow level of knowledge rather than something rather deeper and more focussed.

Proud of our kids v suspicious of the exam system - unthrottled

GCSE is really an introduction to the formal study of a subject; it never had any pretensions of being in depth.

There are only a handful of people with 15A* at GCSE-and they would have cleaned up at O-level too!

The GCSE is flawed, but it is not worthless, and it is churlish to imply that the results are given out for nothing.

Proud of our kids v suspicious of the exam system - Bobbin Threadbare

They are doing something about this; lots of schools are going for the iGCSE. There are different exam boards too; some are set up for grammar school and the syllabus is quite academic, and some are things like 'science and applications' which is for numpties.

O-Levels were set up differently (yes ok I was only 3 when they brought in GCSE) - my mum said it was common that you took O-Levels in the things you were good at, and CSEs in the less good things. GCSE is something of a leveller in that respect.

Proud of our kids v suspicious of the exam system - Dutchie
Proud of our kids v suspicious of the exam system - Dutchie

Our daughter has a degree and has put it to good use we hope.;)She is a CPN nurse.I have met many people at work with degrees and not a ounce of common sense .I remember one manager she made a decision which cost us in the long run well ove 15 million pound sterling.She would't listen to any comments from the shop floor,I thing she is on a gas rig now in the North Sea out the way.

Proud of our kids v suspicious of the exam system - Dutchie
Sorry think.;)
Proud of our kids v suspicious of the exam system - jamie745

Ive noted before that the majority of academics, and by that i mean people supremely intelligent in their own narrow field, do tend to lack basic common sense. All too wrapped up in their little textbook world.

Proud of our kids v suspicious of the exam system - Bobbin Threadbare

How many do you know...?!

Proud of our kids v suspicious of the exam system - jamie745

You dont need to catch milaria to know its not pleasant.

Proud of our kids v suspicious of the exam system - HF

Mini HF also got his GCSE results, they were pretty good as he didn't study at all. His school among top 4 in country i think. GCSEs aren't really that important tho, it's what they do after that counts. Think maybe kids are made to study too many subjects that just don't suit them, for too long. once they're allowed to specialise a bit more, for a levels and beyond, that should be when it starts to count.

Proud of our kids v suspicious of the exam system - jamie745

I failed miserably at my GCSE's and never went into A levels or university or anything. I was one of those who could do it but chose not to. My coursework was among the best in the entire school, i was put into a specialist group to do English GCSE in year 9 because i was more advanced but i turned it down because i couldnt be bothered. My teachers told me i could get A* in most subjects if i applied myself even a tiny little bit but i decided not to. At the time i was more interested in annoying the teachers and not doing what they wanted me to do than in anything else and just sat there in the exams and didnt even write my name or do anything.

Proud of our kids v suspicious of the exam system - HF

And you mean it didn't matter jamie? Both HF minors could have got all the a*s but couldnt be a***d. It hasn't done the older one any harm at all, he's in RADA, and baby HF is thinking of going to cambridge. That's what I mean, GCSEs aren't the be all and end all

Proud of our kids v suspicious of the exam system - Avant

Plus ça change, Jamie..... ! :)

HF, you are so right - it's what happens after GCSE that makes the difference. Our four children, like Jamie, didn't go on to A-levels - lack of motivation and not much help from the school. Disappointing in a way as I'm a graduate, but different people have different talents and it's a matter of finding those talents.

There needs to be much more provision for vocational training for non-academic children: our 4 have all got qualifications in their 20s.

And for those who do go on to A-levels and/or a degree course, the crucial thing is for them to do the subjects that they're interested in as opposed to those they think they ought to. I attend quite a few careers fairs representing the Institute of Chartered Accountants, and often surprise children and parents by saying that to them. You don't need an accountancy degree before starting accountancy studies, and the same goes for most other professions except perhaps medicine and engineering, where a science background is presumably essential.

Proud of our kids v suspicious of the exam system - Bobbin Threadbare

As you guys know, I did the whole education system to the very end - PhD and all. I am glad I got the choice to do all of that. I know for sure that had I been born in 1973 instead of 1983 I wouldn't have had the chance to go to uni. Whoever heard of a female Scouse physicist anyway...?!!

Proud of our kids v suspicious of the exam system - HF

Good luck with the new job bobbin :)

Proud of our kids v suspicious of the exam system - Bobbin Threadbare

Thanks HF.

Proud of our kids v suspicious of the exam system - Dutchie
Proud of our kids v suspicious of the exam system - Dutchie

Low attention span I used to suffer with that at school.Soon got bored it often depends on the teacher I had one teacher who understood me and I was top in the subject.I didn't annoy teachers just minded my own bussiness.Maybe private education is better if you have the money I dont know.

Proud of our kids v suspicious of the exam system - Dutchie

(Duplicate post)

Sorry if you're having trouble posting, Dutchie. You're right: private education is worth paying for and I was lucky to have it. With 4 children we couldn't afford it, and they suffered for it. They have all got qualifications in their 20s - no thanks to the schools they went to.

Edited by Avant on 11/09/2011 at 16:19

Proud of our kids v suspicious of the exam system - Dutchie

Thanks Avant I'm struggling sometimes to post never mind glitches.>.;) I remember as a youngster at school I couldn't take in Algebra.Teacher never explained the way it worked.I was lucky to have a neighbour who understood the subject,and she taught me with patience how to apply it.I've never needed to use it in my working live but there you are.

Proud of our kids v suspicious of the exam system - Dutchie

(Duplicate post)

Edited by Avant on 14/09/2011 at 21:22

Proud of our kids v suspicious of the exam system - Armitage Shanks {p}

If your reply is directed at me (AS) I did NOT imply that the grades are given out for nothing but I do suggest that if an individual can 15 A*s they can't be that hard and suggests no depth of knowledge across the 15 subjects.

Proud of our kids v suspicious of the exam system - 1litregolfeater

Since 1985, degrees have been devalued by 75%.

Proud of our kids v suspicious of the exam system - jamie745

Since 1997, 63% of statistics have been made up.

Proud of our kids v suspicious of the exam system - HF

Since 1997, 63% of statistics have been made up.

That gave me the first proper laugh Ive had in ages. Thank u jamie.

Course it seems like exams being dumbed down all the time but that shouldn't matter since it's across the board. The problem is that everyone's expected to go to uni these days, and so a degree is completely unworthy of the name in a lot of cases.

I'm spoilt cos my kids are actually doing things that have always been considered good things to do - but I feel strongly that things might have been a whole lot better for a whole lot of people if there'd been less focus on uni's and more on trades.

I wish for example that I'd trained as a plumber instead of a banker because it's so much more flexible.

It wasn't 97 that screwed us all jamie, it started long before that.

But I don't talk politics :D

Proud of our kids v suspicious of the exam system - jamie745

I didnt mean any political referance when i said 1997 i just plucked a year out at random. Dont read too much into it.

Its interesting you point out how everyones expected to go to uni these days, ive heard it said that people get into Uni today who wouldnt of had a chance 30 years ago, not due to background but because they're not very bright. Blair's Government did its best to get everyone into Uni and everyone an education, which sounds great and was obviously well meaning but the knock on effect of that was it ultimately devalued the degrees as more people had them, undermined confidence and respect in the system particularly from employers and ultimately even with tuition fees introduced, it was costing the state too much as too many people were going to Uni. Which in turn left this Government with no choice but to raise the fees.

Banker is very flexible by the way, a plumber cant flood 7 houses, empty the owners bank account and cause the entire street to collapse and still get a 100k bonus.

Not that long ago, being a plumber or a builder was seen as a poor mans job. But then the posh crowd started experimenting with bizarre degrees as they werent and learned Art, medievil history and 'social studies' and they now end up in Tesco, while Barry the plumber is on 40k a year.

My gripe with schools is they dont teach you enough of what you need to know. I came out of school knowing the process of photosynthesis but that didnt help me control budgets when i got to 27.

I think the

Proud of our kids v suspicious of the exam system - HF

As much as I hate it my dear, we are in agreement on all of this. And like hell was 97 random.

You still make me laugh which today is very welcome.

When I grew up, as u say, the trades were what u did if u weren't clever. That backfired didn't it?

I dont know how schools can do absolutely everything tho. We can all be cynical about what helped or what didn't. me personally it didn't help at all but it MADE me try to get away from that kind of mentality for my own boys. Which is why the 2 are wildly different and god help me wildly successful.

If I come back here in another 5 years I swear you will know my older son. I am not bragging or wishing to take favour from his name (which I won't ever tell here I think) but things do change, and whilst 5 years sounds a long time, it's really not.