. Which means its heavily subsidised by taxpayers who dont use the services to largely give rail users something for nothing.

I don't think the rail commuters quite see it that way when their annual ticket payment falls in their lap.

When a motorist dares to point out they feel motoring taxes are maybe slightly too high, the guardian readers come out with 'if you want to use the roads then pay for them, but dont expect any road improvements, the taxes dont exist, general taxation and all that' but you say to a rail user 'if you want to use the train then pay for it' and suddenly its a very different mentality. Tax money should be ploughed into it to subsidise it to get more people on it. Apparently. One rule for one...etc

Bus Companies currently receive a 43p a litre fuel duty rebate on diesel and bus travel costs the Government money every year, the mere fact they feel the need to give the rebate shows they know the tax is too high. Imagine what bus fares would be without Government subsidies. Theres only an 8p a litre duty on biofuels currently thanks to Gordon Brown's bright idea to encourage it for train use, although im not sure how many trains currently run on it in the UK so if anybody knows, info would be very welcome.

I agree with the commuters who say the fees are too much, totally agree, 4k a year to stand on a 19th century relic (dont even get a seat most of the time) beside vomiting homeless people having third hand resteamed coffee from a plastic cup is not my idea of value for money, i sympathise with the commuters, its not their fault rail travel is unsustainable and costly. And ive said in the past i support investment which improves the services of public transport, as i feel plenty of people are probably forced to use a car when in many cases minor upgrades or improvements to bus or train services would remove the need for them to do so, but with all the billions thrown at it in the last decade i dont think any improvements have been forthcoming. I think thats the key issue, has the billions brought benefits? Discuss.

What makes me supportive of fare increases and lower subsidies is the people of Campaign for Better Transport who criticise these changes on the basis of 'higher fares will put more people in cars, we need more tax money to stop that happening' if you know you cant compete with the car on a level playing field that says it all. Still, i probably shouldnt let pathetic quacks like them reduce my sympathy for ordinary tax paying commuters who just want to get somewhere.

Can I ask why it has to be Gatwick? You'll be passing Heathrow on the way and there are flights to the ME from Cardiff and Birmingham.

It's possible Gatwick has such poor transport links with West Wales because so few people want to make the journey.

Why Gatwick? Heathrow would be a whopping £350 EACH more expensive and flights from Cardiff go via amsterdam, strange hours too, and long times hanging around, also DOUBLE Heathrow, same for bristol, same for brum, and still got to pay for parking..

By the time we get to cardiff and then turn back and drive on country roads and the little country lanes to get to the parking and it is a tiny airport and any delay means we are stuffed for 24 or more hours. (some airlines don't fly every day!) flights would be via amsterdam, paris or frankfurt with 10-12 hour waiting outbound and maybe 20-24 hours inbound. From the time we leave the m4 at j33 to get to cardiff airport we are another 35 miles toward where we want to go.

For the links it is the sunday that is the problem, and as my wife still works for a living, there is the consideration for her colleagues and employer in not leaving them in the doo-doo. Also the total time frame for the visit, more time travelling = more tired.

But each to his own...........

Point taken. I take it the Heathrow fares are with another airline? Depending on when your flight leaves I would still tend to travel down the day before and stay overnight to make sure I was on time. However you travel in this country arrival times cannot be guaranteed 100%.

just checked again out of interest.

Gatwick - Amman return flight 5 hours £178 inc 20kg checked 15kilo carry on

Heathrow £470 5 hours 20kg 10kilos carry on

Cardiff £708 and 25 hours outbound ! 2 stops

I'd love to fly from closer to home but the costs are crazy.

The viability of using a car for the airport run depends on a lot of factors, and particularly on the number of passengers carried in the car.

Exactly! We are travelling to Lisbon from here and No flights from wales unless we want to pay several hundred quid more than easyjet, parking same price, but travel time with flight changes is utterly stupid from cardiff on return journey 17 hours! flights vary between £300 and £1300 EACH from cardiff and are £57 from luton.