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Ive often commented on my dislike of the scrappage scheme on here, although it did boost new car sales, it took 200,000 perfectly usable, serviceable, drivable used cars out of circulation, severely hitting the used car market, pushing prices up for those which remained and inflated the market. When the next round of ex-fleet/rentals etc makes their way into auction houses it will be on its way to repair (sort of) as stock will build up again. It was dressed up as a green measure, but whats more green than old sustainable cars still on the road? It didnt stack up in terms of eco policy and nor did it stack up financially, the Government ended up filling airfields with perfectly drivable cars, they couldnt sell them or anything, which was ridiculous. Why not sell them all off for £300 each?
I remember seeing a picture of one of the airfields and i couldnt help but notice the very nice Mercedes, Ford Mondeo's, even the odd Escort RS2000 (limited edition end of line cars to one of the companies finest badges). Disgraceful. And all chopped in for 2k off a Polo or something.
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I tend to agree. I also wonder how many of those '£2K' cars were, in fact, undervalued against a true trade-in/cost to change value - I can well imagine Mr & Mrs Don'LikeToHaggle going into the dealership & getting a much worse deal than without the dubious 'scrappage scheme'.
Also, the supposed rationale for the scheme was to boost the economy after the 2007-8 bank failures & expected slump. Well, it didn't happen like that, the real slump is happening now & all that potential spending power has been spent already. All those 'bangers' would also have circulated money amongst garages & motor factors (i.e. need for more repairs/servicing than newer cars, pro rata) & kept out a few more tens of thousands of imports (Hyundia did particularly well, I believe) & put more wages in pockets.
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ll those 'bangers' would also have circulated money amongst garages & motor factors (i.e. need for more repairs/servicing than newer cars, pro rata)
Quite. Industry lobbyists always seem to think that any money 'lost' by the company they represent is effectively lost to the entire system which is rubbish. Wait for retail analysts to start hand wringing about the British economy losing £billions per day when it snows and people can't get to BHS.
The £2000 'grant' was also questionable since only £1000 came from government. The other £1000 came from the dealer and you can bet that this offer was cannibalised from existing ones.
The whole scrappage scheme was a a rather tawdry exercise-rewarding greed and encouraging squandor. Not an edifying spectacle and completely the wrong medicine when money is tight.
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I would post a reply about how it was noted by some news outlets that some manufacturers were inflating prices shortly before the scheme came in, in order to not "lose" that grand when the scheme came in, but if i did, Avant would probably delete it.
So i wont.
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For the government this scheme paid for itself, as the revenue from the VAT, often more than covered the £1,000 contribution. This scheme was yet another Labour idea, which benefitted the Conservative voters. Most people who took up this offer were the better off who could afford to maintain their existing car properly and in turn could afford to buy a new one. Most of the bangers that needed to be taken off the roads stayed, for obvious reasons.
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And seeing as the only people who could take this up were people who had at least 8k kicking about doing nothing, and hence were able to maintain those cars very well, makes it even more stupid that these well maintained cars were crushed instead of re-sold. Its "green credentials" also falls down as you say the bangers we needed to scrap, still remained, people running those cars out of neccessity dont have 8 grand kicking about to buy a new car.
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I don't think cars over 10 years old are that green. If you ever get behind one now, they stink to high heaven. I have to turn my fan off.
I do agree that there was an agenda to tide us over the worst of the financial crisis, but what are they going to do now that the eye of the hurricane has passed and the rest of it starts to engulf the economy on the second front.
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Really? I'd put my 1996 Euro II petrol against a 2009 Euro V diesel in an emissions stand off and be confident of winning...
Any petrol built since 1992 (and hence fitted with a closed loop fuelling system and a 3 way cat) is pretty clean. Improvements since have been very incremental.
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I think your car may be the smelly one mate. Ive been behind many late 90s cars of late and experienced no trouble. When i had my M Reg Mondeo 1.6, it was about ten years old at the time and that passed its emissions test with flying colours. I know somebody with a 41 year old car and that sails through emissions tests. I think cars are built better and go for longer these days than in the past. I regularly see 10-15 year old cars on the road. In the 70s about 10 was the limit for most cars before they were killed by rust, even at low mileages.
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>>Any petrol built since 1992)............. is pretty clean.
My '93 reg has an MOT emissions Lambda pass range of 0.95 - 1.3 (yes, 1.3).
The testing station reckon it's the filthiest exhaust they see each year and would probably pass with the cat by-passed.
However, I've read that more pollution's created in the production of a car than it ever emits in it's life so I feel justified in keeping it running.
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There seems to be an assumption that all of the cars that went into the scrappage scheme were viable "runabouts". I can say for a fact that they weren't. For some owners, it was a prudent way of disposing of a car that was otherwise worth £100 at the breakers.
It got some real sheds off the road.
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I had akinda figgered that iffen one was fool enough to offer a potential classic car to the dealer during the scrappage scheme......he the dealer would have had the sense to reluctantely take it then, pay the scrappage deficet out of his own pocket, keeping the car, then flog the car himself.
Well that is what a PROPER motor trader would do
I suppose some of the wet behind the ear junior sales types in the larger franchises would not have the gumption to do this.
Scheesh!
&
cheers
all
Edited by dieseldogg on 22/07/2011 at 11:43
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Actually I think that's what a very dodgy motor trader would do, as I am sure I recall seeing that it was specifically illegal under the terms of the scheme.
In order to do this, he'd have to declare it to the punter, so that they knew it was not being taken under the scrappage scheme but it was instead being taken in trade for 2000 pounds. Said punter would (unless they were very thick) immediately assume that what they were dobbing in was potentially worth rather more than two grand......
I'm not saying it didn't happen. I'd bend the rules if I were in that position and looking at something it'd be a crying shame to scrap.
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>>Said punter would (unless they were very thick) immediately assume that what they were dobbing in was potentially worth rather more than two grand
I very much doubt it, otherwise cars would never be traded in. It must always be better to get rid of a car privately and then negotiate a purchase price for whatever's being bought.
Dealers wouldn't do it if there wasn't money in it for them!
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Perhaps. A few. But in 200,000 its safe to assume that at least half were still perfectly drivable usable vehicles. Every car was roadworthy, or had an MOT at the very least, so i doubt it was 200k total sheds. And it speaks volumes about the idiocy of those people for the ones which were sheds, they're driving a total shed, clearly have money in the bank but dont change the car until someone gives thme 2k off. What about the other 8 grand? Minimum. Mustve had that lying around. Couldve got a very decent 3-4 year old motor for that. I just cannot work out why anybody wouldve jumped at the chance of partaking in the scheme. It makes zero sense on every level.
It may have got a few sheds off the road, but its impact on the used car market creating a dearth of good used motors was far more profound and easily outweights the "benefit" of getting a few wrecks out of the way.
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The criterion was that the car had an MoT in the two weeks before placing an order for a new car. An ideal time to ditch the failures which are beyond economical repair. Many of the scrappage schemes were accompanied with inviting HP deals, available cash wasn't necessary and not welcome. The HP provides yet more income for the dealerships and a nice littlr earner for the sharks on the sales floor.
A lot also depends on how you use your cash. I often buy new and hang on for a longish time, I don't like 3-4 year old cars, the thought of sitting in a seat marinated with some sweaty reps a**e vinegar doesn't appeal.
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A lot also depends on how you use your cash. I often buy new and hang on for a longish time, I don't like 3-4 year old cars, the thought of sitting in a seat marinated with some sweaty reps a**e vinegar doesn't appeal.
davmal, that is grose. Every time I get into my 85k 2007 Avensis, I'll be thinking of that now. Now where did I put that seat cover?
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Seat Covers! You don't see them any more. My dad used to get them for my mum's metro when the upholstery collapsed (usually just after the wings had disintegrated).
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My grandad had those bobbly ones made out of wood. So uncomfortable, but he believed them to be good for his back!
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(double post)
Edited by markw on 23/07/2011 at 22:25
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My '93 reg has an MOT emissions Lambda pass range of 0.95 - 1.3
There's always one! A few Euro 0 cars were sold into 1993.
But my '96 car has to pass thw same lambda, HC, and and CO limits as more modrn cars-and it sails in well below the limits. OK, the MOT test is steady state and doesn't include transients. A more modern car would do better on the gear changes.
The 'pollution' of manufacture is a significant fraction of total lifetime pollution, but the operating pollutants are different to the manufacturing ones so it is difficult to make a direct comparison.
Edited by unthrottled on 22/07/2011 at 14:01
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I don't think cars over 10 years old are that green. If you ever get behind one now, they stink to high heaven. I have to turn my fan off.
I do agree that there was an agenda to tide us over the worst of the financial crisis, but what are they going to do now that the eye of the hurricane has passed and the rest of it starts to engulf the economy on the second front.
My ST200 V6 puts out less emmissions than most thanks to an LPG conversion. It's 11yrs old now. I hate being behind taxi's running diesel varients that smoke to high heaven obscuring the view of other drivers and choking pedestrians.
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people who had at least 8k kicking about
Not necessarily. I maintain that a big reason for the scheme was to persuade people to take out loans, get people into debt.
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For what purpose? To borrow from banks and pay back at extortionate rates to balance the banks' books? Isnt that sort of reckless borrowing what led to or contributed to the problems which finally led to plenty crashing down in 2007? And banks were and still are very reluctant to lend anything even with a few being partially state owned and the Government telling them to lend.
Call me a bit of a simpleton but im not one for loans, credit, APR rates etc. If i cant afford to buy something with cash then i dont buy it, so no HP deal would ever look "inviting" to me.
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Call me a bit of a simpleton but im not one for loans, credit, APR rates etc. If i cant afford to buy something with cash then i dont buy it
Normally i'd leap at the offer-but I agree with sentiment in its entirety
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Call me a bit of a simpleton but im not one for loans, credit, APR rates etc. If i cant afford to buy something with cash then i dont buy it, so no HP deal would ever look "inviting" to me.
OK Simpleton. Must have made getting on the housing market a protracted experience?
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Erm,
Me & the missis got on the housing market back in 1987, never made any excess profits from the boom, only have owned 3 houses/holdings since then.......but have never borrowed money.
It can be done.
PS
Neither inherited wealth( inherited values only) nor mega salery jobs either.
Simply thrift.
Boring I appreciate
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Not that its any of your business but i dont own a home or have a mortage or anything, a cheapish rent deal which i got due to the house needing a little bit of work is still good enough for me for the time being. It was sat here for quite some time and they were just happy to get something back from it. Hunt around enough and you can get a bargain if you work hard at it.
Edited by jamie745 on 24/07/2011 at 15:12
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