Cars lost in the scrappage scheme - Trilogy

Fortunately this car was saved from the crusher. http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=66503 Does any one else know of any other good/rare cars which were lost in this ill thought out scheme

Cars lost in the scrappage scheme - jamie745

Ive often commented on my dislike of the scrappage scheme on here, although it did boost new car sales, it took 200,000 perfectly usable, serviceable, drivable used cars out of circulation, severely hitting the used car market, pushing prices up for those which remained and inflated the market. When the next round of ex-fleet/rentals etc makes their way into auction houses it will be on its way to repair (sort of) as stock will build up again. It was dressed up as a green measure, but whats more green than old sustainable cars still on the road? It didnt stack up in terms of eco policy and nor did it stack up financially, the Government ended up filling airfields with perfectly drivable cars, they couldnt sell them or anything, which was ridiculous. Why not sell them all off for £300 each?

I remember seeing a picture of one of the airfields and i couldnt help but notice the very nice Mercedes, Ford Mondeo's, even the odd Escort RS2000 (limited edition end of line cars to one of the companies finest badges). Disgraceful. And all chopped in for 2k off a Polo or something.

Cars lost in the scrappage scheme - ForumNeedsModerating

I tend to agree. I also wonder how many of those '£2K' cars were, in fact, undervalued against a true trade-in/cost to change value - I can well imagine Mr & Mrs Don'LikeToHaggle going into the dealership & getting a much worse deal than without the dubious 'scrappage scheme'.

Also, the supposed rationale for the scheme was to boost the economy after the 2007-8 bank failures & expected slump. Well, it didn't happen like that, the real slump is happening now & all that potential spending power has been spent already. All those 'bangers' would also have circulated money amongst garages & motor factors (i.e. need for more repairs/servicing than newer cars, pro rata) & kept out a few more tens of thousands of imports (Hyundia did particularly well, I believe) & put more wages in pockets.

Cars lost in the scrappage scheme - unthrottled

ll those 'bangers' would also have circulated money amongst garages & motor factors (i.e. need for more repairs/servicing than newer cars, pro rata)

Quite. Industry lobbyists always seem to think that any money 'lost' by the company they represent is effectively lost to the entire system which is rubbish. Wait for retail analysts to start hand wringing about the British economy losing £billions per day when it snows and people can't get to BHS.

The £2000 'grant' was also questionable since only £1000 came from government. The other £1000 came from the dealer and you can bet that this offer was cannibalised from existing ones.

The whole scrappage scheme was a a rather tawdry exercise-rewarding greed and encouraging squandor. Not an edifying spectacle and completely the wrong medicine when money is tight.

Cars lost in the scrappage scheme - jamie745

I would post a reply about how it was noted by some news outlets that some manufacturers were inflating prices shortly before the scheme came in, in order to not "lose" that grand when the scheme came in, but if i did, Avant would probably delete it.

So i wont.

Cars lost in the scrappage scheme - Trilogy

For the government this scheme paid for itself, as the revenue from the VAT, often more than covered the £1,000 contribution. This scheme was yet another Labour idea, which benefitted the Conservative voters. Most people who took up this offer were the better off who could afford to maintain their existing car properly and in turn could afford to buy a new one. Most of the bangers that needed to be taken off the roads stayed, for obvious reasons.

Cars lost in the scrappage scheme - jamie745

And seeing as the only people who could take this up were people who had at least 8k kicking about doing nothing, and hence were able to maintain those cars very well, makes it even more stupid that these well maintained cars were crushed instead of re-sold. Its "green credentials" also falls down as you say the bangers we needed to scrap, still remained, people running those cars out of neccessity dont have 8 grand kicking about to buy a new car.

Cars lost in the scrappage scheme - Ben 10

I don't think cars over 10 years old are that green. If you ever get behind one now, they stink to high heaven. I have to turn my fan off.

I do agree that there was an agenda to tide us over the worst of the financial crisis, but what are they going to do now that the eye of the hurricane has passed and the rest of it starts to engulf the economy on the second front.

Cars lost in the scrappage scheme - unthrottled

Really? I'd put my 1996 Euro II petrol against a 2009 Euro V diesel in an emissions stand off and be confident of winning...

Any petrol built since 1992 (and hence fitted with a closed loop fuelling system and a 3 way cat) is pretty clean. Improvements since have been very incremental.

Cars lost in the scrappage scheme - jamie745

I think your car may be the smelly one mate. Ive been behind many late 90s cars of late and experienced no trouble. When i had my M Reg Mondeo 1.6, it was about ten years old at the time and that passed its emissions test with flying colours. I know somebody with a 41 year old car and that sails through emissions tests. I think cars are built better and go for longer these days than in the past. I regularly see 10-15 year old cars on the road. In the 70s about 10 was the limit for most cars before they were killed by rust, even at low mileages.

Cars lost in the scrappage scheme - bathtub tom

>>Any petrol built since 1992)............. is pretty clean.

My '93 reg has an MOT emissions Lambda pass range of 0.95 - 1.3 (yes, 1.3).

The testing station reckon it's the filthiest exhaust they see each year and would probably pass with the cat by-passed.

However, I've read that more pollution's created in the production of a car than it ever emits in it's life so I feel justified in keeping it running.

Cars lost in the scrappage scheme - davmal

There seems to be an assumption that all of the cars that went into the scrappage scheme were viable "runabouts". I can say for a fact that they weren't. For some owners, it was a prudent way of disposing of a car that was otherwise worth £100 at the breakers.

It got some real sheds off the road.

Cars lost in the scrappage scheme - dieseldogg

I had akinda figgered that iffen one was fool enough to offer a potential classic car to the dealer during the scrappage scheme......he the dealer would have had the sense to reluctantely take it then, pay the scrappage deficet out of his own pocket, keeping the car, then flog the car himself.

Well that is what a PROPER motor trader would do

I suppose some of the wet behind the ear junior sales types in the larger franchises would not have the gumption to do this.

Scheesh!

&

cheers

all

Edited by dieseldogg on 22/07/2011 at 11:43

Cars lost in the scrappage scheme - TeeCee

Actually I think that's what a very dodgy motor trader would do, as I am sure I recall seeing that it was specifically illegal under the terms of the scheme.

In order to do this, he'd have to declare it to the punter, so that they knew it was not being taken under the scrappage scheme but it was instead being taken in trade for 2000 pounds. Said punter would (unless they were very thick) immediately assume that what they were dobbing in was potentially worth rather more than two grand......

I'm not saying it didn't happen. I'd bend the rules if I were in that position and looking at something it'd be a crying shame to scrap.

Cars lost in the scrappage scheme - bathtub tom

>>Said punter would (unless they were very thick) immediately assume that what they were dobbing in was potentially worth rather more than two grand

I very much doubt it, otherwise cars would never be traded in. It must always be better to get rid of a car privately and then negotiate a purchase price for whatever's being bought.

Dealers wouldn't do it if there wasn't money in it for them!

Cars lost in the scrappage scheme - jamie745

Perhaps. A few. But in 200,000 its safe to assume that at least half were still perfectly drivable usable vehicles. Every car was roadworthy, or had an MOT at the very least, so i doubt it was 200k total sheds. And it speaks volumes about the idiocy of those people for the ones which were sheds, they're driving a total shed, clearly have money in the bank but dont change the car until someone gives thme 2k off. What about the other 8 grand? Minimum. Mustve had that lying around. Couldve got a very decent 3-4 year old motor for that. I just cannot work out why anybody wouldve jumped at the chance of partaking in the scheme. It makes zero sense on every level.

It may have got a few sheds off the road, but its impact on the used car market creating a dearth of good used motors was far more profound and easily outweights the "benefit" of getting a few wrecks out of the way.

Cars lost in the scrappage scheme - davmal

The criterion was that the car had an MoT in the two weeks before placing an order for a new car. An ideal time to ditch the failures which are beyond economical repair. Many of the scrappage schemes were accompanied with inviting HP deals, available cash wasn't necessary and not welcome. The HP provides yet more income for the dealerships and a nice littlr earner for the sharks on the sales floor.

A lot also depends on how you use your cash. I often buy new and hang on for a longish time, I don't like 3-4 year old cars, the thought of sitting in a seat marinated with some sweaty reps a**e vinegar doesn't appeal.

Cars lost in the scrappage scheme - corax

A lot also depends on how you use your cash. I often buy new and hang on for a longish time, I don't like 3-4 year old cars, the thought of sitting in a seat marinated with some sweaty reps a**e vinegar doesn't appeal.

davmal, that is grose. Every time I get into my 85k 2007 Avensis, I'll be thinking of that now. Now where did I put that seat cover?

Cars lost in the scrappage scheme - davmal

Sorry.

Cars lost in the scrappage scheme - unthrottled

Seat Covers! You don't see them any more. My dad used to get them for my mum's metro when the upholstery collapsed (usually just after the wings had disintegrated).

Cars lost in the scrappage scheme - Bobbin Threadbare

My grandad had those bobbly ones made out of wood. So uncomfortable, but he believed them to be good for his back!

Cars lost in the scrappage scheme - markweatherill

(double post)

Edited by markw on 23/07/2011 at 22:25

Cars lost in the scrappage scheme - unthrottled

My '93 reg has an MOT emissions Lambda pass range of 0.95 - 1.3

There's always one! A few Euro 0 cars were sold into 1993.

But my '96 car has to pass thw same lambda, HC, and and CO limits as more modrn cars-and it sails in well below the limits. OK, the MOT test is steady state and doesn't include transients. A more modern car would do better on the gear changes.

The 'pollution' of manufacture is a significant fraction of total lifetime pollution, but the operating pollutants are different to the manufacturing ones so it is difficult to make a direct comparison.

Edited by unthrottled on 22/07/2011 at 14:01

Cars lost in the scrappage scheme - GazNicki

I don't think cars over 10 years old are that green. If you ever get behind one now, they stink to high heaven. I have to turn my fan off.

I do agree that there was an agenda to tide us over the worst of the financial crisis, but what are they going to do now that the eye of the hurricane has passed and the rest of it starts to engulf the economy on the second front.

My ST200 V6 puts out less emmissions than most thanks to an LPG conversion. It's 11yrs old now. I hate being behind taxi's running diesel varients that smoke to high heaven obscuring the view of other drivers and choking pedestrians.

Cars lost in the scrappage scheme - markweatherill

people who had at least 8k kicking about

Not necessarily. I maintain that a big reason for the scheme was to persuade people to take out loans, get people into debt.

Cars lost in the scrappage scheme - jamie745

For what purpose? To borrow from banks and pay back at extortionate rates to balance the banks' books? Isnt that sort of reckless borrowing what led to or contributed to the problems which finally led to plenty crashing down in 2007? And banks were and still are very reluctant to lend anything even with a few being partially state owned and the Government telling them to lend.

Call me a bit of a simpleton but im not one for loans, credit, APR rates etc. If i cant afford to buy something with cash then i dont buy it, so no HP deal would ever look "inviting" to me.

Cars lost in the scrappage scheme - unthrottled

Call me a bit of a simpleton but im not one for loans, credit, APR rates etc. If i cant afford to buy something with cash then i dont buy it

Normally i'd leap at the offer-but I agree with sentiment in its entirety

Cars lost in the scrappage scheme - davmal

Call me a bit of a simpleton but im not one for loans, credit, APR rates etc. If i cant afford to buy something with cash then i dont buy it, so no HP deal would ever look "inviting" to me.

OK Simpleton. Must have made getting on the housing market a protracted experience?

Cars lost in the scrappage scheme - dieseldogg

Erm,

Me & the missis got on the housing market back in 1987, never made any excess profits from the boom, only have owned 3 houses/holdings since then.......but have never borrowed money.

It can be done.

PS

Neither inherited wealth( inherited values only) nor mega salery jobs either.

Simply thrift.

Boring I appreciate

Cars lost in the scrappage scheme - jamie745

Not that its any of your business but i dont own a home or have a mortage or anything, a cheapish rent deal which i got due to the house needing a little bit of work is still good enough for me for the time being. It was sat here for quite some time and they were just happy to get something back from it. Hunt around enough and you can get a bargain if you work hard at it.

Edited by jamie745 on 24/07/2011 at 15:12

Cars lost in the scrappage scheme - George7

My current car (A 2000 X Reg 1.6 Focus) narrowly avoided the crusher when this scheme was running. My mum was after a new car, and the Focus didn't quite qualify for the scheme (it wasn't quite 10 years old at the time), but if it did, I have no doubt that she would have scrapped it. Instead, give or take a year later, I got a full time job so needed a car, and my mum wanted a new car; therefore I took the car over and my mum bought a new Focus off 'Drive the Deal' and probably saved more money than she would have saved with the scrappage scheme, I've been driving the X reg Focus for a year now and *touch wood* it's been brilliant. There seems to be a common opinion that most people I've spoken to share, that any car over 10 years old will break down, fall apart, and cost thousands in repairs, but most of the time, with a car that's been looked after well, this couldn't be further from the truth. The whole scheme seemed like such a waste to me.

Cars lost in the scrappage scheme - Avant

Welcome to the forum, George.

Yours is a fine example of a good car with plenty of life left in it, many of which went to the crusher under this scheme. Sadly it was a piece of short-term thinking by politicians which wasn't a long-term solution to anything.

Although some sheds were mercifully put off the road, there were far too many that weren't sheds, including some 'classics' which would have fetched more than £2,000 in the market.

Cars lost in the scrappage scheme - jamie745

And that is what i was trying to stress when i disagreed with a post above supporting the scheme for the wrecks it got off the road. My point is it wasnt just wrecks. I'd say around probably 9 out of 10 of the cars which were crushed were decent cars, with maybe half being perfectly saleable and definatley plenty which were worth more than the 2 grand offered in part ex. Yes it got the odd shed out of the way but i feel the damage its caused to the used car market and the amount of perfectly good cars it scrapped far outweighs that minor crumb of a benefit and makes it not worthwhile. To sacrifice 200k odd good examples of solid used cars in times of economic downturn purely to get rid of a few bangers and keep the suits and shareholders of the manufacturers happy for a few weeks, to me wasnt a worthwhile exercise. Thats a disproportionate amount of "collateral damage" shall we say, for the benefit it achieved.

Edited by jamie745 on 26/07/2011 at 00:26

Cars lost in the scrappage scheme - Sofa Spud

Someone told me that the scrappage scheme saw off a large proportion of the surviving leaf-sprung 'series' Land Rovers - the last fo which were built in the early '80's.

Certainly they seem a lot more scarce on the road than they did two or three years ago.

Come to think of it, you don't see many early 90's or 110's about these days. Yet a few years ago very ancient Land Rovers - including Series 1's - were not uncommon.

If they bring in another scrappage scheme, which looks rather unlikely, it should be limited to people who are scrapping large, thirsty cars and replacing them with small, economical ones.

Edited by Sofa Spud on 26/07/2011 at 23:58

Cars lost in the scrappage scheme - unthrottled

Does anybody actually run a large thirsty car for large annual mileages any more? I imagine people who drive many miles in a year have long since switched to more economical cars. It should be borne in mind that it is the consumption that it important, not the fuel economy. A 10 mpg Range Rover V8 that only covers 5000 miles/annum uses less fuel than a 50mpg Golf TDI travelling 30,000 miles per year.

If a subsidy is required to justify the change then the change wasn't worth making. I hope never to see a repeat of the scrappage folly again.

Cars lost in the scrappage scheme - jamie745

Well as i pointed out in that thread about the Mercedes emissions thing that my car doing 5k a year will cause less 'environmental damage' than a Focus TDCi doing 15k. Of course the Focus is the more efficient because in that year it wouldve gone further using less fuel and emitting less co2 per mile, but i think a point many people miss is people who buy cars like the Focus TDCi are people who probably will travel 15k a year or more, and people who buy something like what ive got, generally dont (i'll probably do 5-10k a year in mine) So throughout the cars lifetime and usage, the chances are, the economical little boxes, the Focus, Golf TDI's of this world will pollute more, as they will be used more, but will go alot further for it. So yes they are more efficient under the true definition of the term. And it shows it'd be very shortsighted to make a scheme to scrap the low mileage old thirsty cars, less efficient per mile they might be, low polluters per year they also are due to low usage.

I know you'll bring up the flaws in the VED system connected to this but i'll say the same two things about it i always to. 1) It rewards vehicles which are more efficient, whether doing 20k means it pollutes more than a car doing 5k which costs more to tax is beside the point, it was more efficient over that longer period and 2) if you dont like it, buy something else LOL