Ford mondeo - Dual mass flywheel

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Wed 20 Jul 2011 16:22
Ford mondeo - Dual mass flywheel - Steelhead

I have a ford mondeo estate 2.0 Tdci with a 53 plate and I think that it needs a new flywheel . It seem to be cheaper to convert to a fixed one but I am told by my mechanic that you can't get them for engines after 02 . i found a site that appears to sell them but I don't know how to find out what engine I have.

Any help would be appreciated

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Wed 20 Jul 2011 16:43
Ford mondeo - Dual mass flywheel - Steelhead

I have found out that i have a 2.0L Duratorq DI CR (130PS)

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Wed 20 Jul 2011 18:24
Ford mondeo - Dual mass flywheel - Collos25

Yes you can buy them for this model but what makes you think you need a new flywheel.

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Wed 20 Jul 2011 23:53
Ford mondeo - Dual mass flywheel - Steelhead

what the RAC man said but my mechanic says that you can't get a conversion kit to fixed.

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Thu 21 Jul 2011 08:53
Ford mondeo - Dual mass flywheel - daveyjp

Plenty of X type owners get a solid flywheel conversion - a quick google search will probably find a forum with mechanics who know what they are talking about.

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Thu 21 Jul 2011 13:12
Ford mondeo - Dual mass flywheel - ddr

Some people will say they fitted a solid flywheel and have no problems. Others report heavy vibration, bad noises, and damage such as broken crankshafts.

I'm thinking they wouldn't put the DMF there unless it had to be.

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Thu 21 Jul 2011 15:00
Ford mondeo - Dual mass flywheel - bathtub tom

I vaguely recall reading something about DMFs absorbing vibrations that can damage other components. It may not be a good idea to replace it with a solid one.

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Thu 21 Jul 2011 21:24
Ford mondeo - Dual mass flywheel - Steelhead

Well the die is cast i have ordered the parts and work starts a week tomorrow. A well known breakdown recovery organisation , I am told changes all the DMFs in their breakdown vans as soon as they get them. I think given that cars have run without dmfs since time immemorial that someone produced a car with so much vibration that it needed to design a clutch to cope with it . DMFS are something to do with torque aren't they?

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Thu 21 Jul 2011 22:13
Ford mondeo - Dual mass flywheel - unthrottled

I think given that cars have run without dmfs since time immemorial...

Yes, but look at the traditional diesel engines. For decades n/a 2.0l diesels struggled to wheeze up 110lb. ft and 75hp. That's why they were bullet proof. Nowadays we expect to see these figures doubled and then some. That's a lot of extra stress on the crank, bearings and drivetrain.

DMFS are something to do with torque aren't they

Yes, but the torque figure that matters are the peak torque fluctuations-not the quoted average. A 4 cylinder diesel engine producing an average of 200lb.ft has a peak torque value greater than 1000lb.ft. This puts more stress on the clutch than a 6 clyinder engine producing an average 300lb.ft. This is why 4 and 6 cylinder engines often share a clutch-the 4 cylinder is the limiting factor. DMFs are an expensive, externally sourced piece of kit and I don't buy the argument that they are fitted solely to mitigate gear lever rattle.

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Fri 22 Jul 2011 12:59
Ford mondeo - Dual mass flywheel - TeeCee

I still can't help thinking that offset plane cranks would be a better solution to the four banger problem for two reasons.

1) Torque pulses from combustion strokes are offset around the 720 degree cycle rather than being concentrated at 180 degree points, reducing harmonic effects.

2) Each decelerating piston and rod mass is balanced by an accelerating one, reducing torque pulses caused by the simultaneous deceleration and acceleration of all the moving masses. As two pistons hit the top and bottom of their strokes respectively and have to "turn around" the other two are at the centre of their strokes, moving at their highest velocities in opposite directions. As the two that ended stroke accelerate back along the bores, the other two decelerate to the end of their strokes.

3) (Ok, amongst our reasons...) Probably cheaper too.

Someone in the motorcycle world (Yamaha??) has just done this with a four pot inline. The results are apparently a very smooth power delivery and a significant reduction in vibration through the frame, although it sounds like a V4(!)

Could someone explain what I have missed please?

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Fri 22 Jul 2011 14:25
Ford mondeo - Dual mass flywheel - unthrottled

Quite a bit TeeCee!

Firstly, you would introduce an unbalanced primary couple so the engine would want to rock from end to end. However, you would no longer have the secondary imbalance that causes the block to vibrate up and down. The primary couple is solved with a single contra-rotaring balance shaft which is a lot more viable than the twin contra rotating balance shafts running at twice crank speed.

The 2 stroke Detroit Diesel 4 cylinder engines uses this crossplane crankshaft confiuration in order to maintain an even firing interval between cylinders.

I still think far too much is made of engine balance. As I've written before, inertial forces help attenuate the firing pulses on a flat plane 4 cylinder and from ~2000-4000RPM make for a very smooth running engine. No other configuration has this valley of smoothness.

Truth be told, horizontally oppsed 4s are not renowned for being especially smooth, in spite f their better balance than the straight 4.

Torque pulses from combustion strokes are offset around the 720 degree cycle rather than being concentrated at 180 degree points, reducing harmonic effects.

I don't really understand what you mean by this. For each cylinder you get a torque trough at ~20 BTDC due to the compression stroke and a larger torque spike at about 20 ATDC on the power stroke. Giving the firing pulses an uneven interval doesn't really attenuate their magnitude. Quite the opposite. But the inevitable 270 degree gap causes a definite loss of cankshaft momentum and refinement.

You also end up with two adjacent cylinders firing 90 degrees a part. This does gas exchange no favours at all. The uneven firing pattern is distinctly unhelpful to the turbocharger.

The results are apparently a very smooth power delivery and a significant reduction in vibration through the frame

Yamaha claim that the uneven power deliverey (big bang theory) acts as a crude traction control system as the wheel has a long recovery period in order to regain traction. Not many other manufacturers are convinced. One thing the 90/270 isn't is smooth running at low speed.

Also, be careful of equating a 13,000 motorbike engine with a 4000 RPM diesel. the inertial forces are very high at 13,000 RPM-even with a short stroke. In a diesel engine gas forces always dominate.

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Thu 21 Jul 2011 22:49
Ford mondeo - Dual mass flywheel - Bedhead

Well the die is cast i have ordered the parts and work starts a week tomorrow. A well known breakdown recovery organisation , I am told changes all the DMFs in their breakdown vans as soon as they get them. I think given that cars have run without dmfs since time immemorial that someone produced a car with so much vibration that it needed to design a clutch to cope with it . DMFS are something to do with torque aren't they?

Not all diesels are suitable for solid conversions, the 2.4 Transit is probably the best conversion, the newer TDCi's aren't.

The coversion kit for the X-types and the TDCi Mondeos are just a 2.0 Di Transit clutch and flywheel. Some folk swear by them, some will not touch them with a bargepole.

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Fri 22 Jul 2011 13:59
Ford mondeo - Dual mass flywheel - ForumNeedsModerating

I can't quite get my head around the idea of changing a DMF for a SMF. Surely, if the manufacturer has designed the engine with a DMF as the primary means of smoothing torque/power fluctuations & reducing NVH, then changing to a SMF will simply 'pass the buck' in terms of stress & manifest the strain in other (now probably less robustly made) components?

As with other modifications (e.g. chipping), the subtext is that, somehow, the manufacturer knows less about his product than a geezer/small business on an industrial estate peddling the latest engineering 'snake oil' (..apologies to any geezers on any industrial estates, just a turn of phrase!).

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Fri 22 Jul 2011 14:00
Ford mondeo - Dual mass flywheel - Collos25

Its seems a real money earner for garages in the UK any clutch fault then it must be the DMF that will be £1000 thank you when really it just needs a new plate or release bearing,MB have DMF for donkys years and they seem to no problem and in Germany its not known as a problem perhaps the dealers are more honest.

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Sat 3 Jan 2015 10:54
Ford mondeo - Dual mass flywheel - snapperbobby

Would a ford mondeo st Mk 3 2.2 diesel flywheel fit into a mk3 Mondeo 2.0 tdci both are 6 speed

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Sat 3 Jan 2015 11:32
Ford mondeo - Dual mass flywheel - xtrailman

In over 40 years of driving i have never changed a flywheel or DMF.

In fact i've only once changed a clutch plate which was oil contaminated from a crankcase oil seal.

Perhaps i have been lucky, but i can't help thinking that some drivers create there own failures.

I tow a caravan at present with a 420nm car, and i'm on my 3rd turbo diesel, all of which i've towed with.

So am i lucky?

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Sat 3 Jan 2015 11:46
Ford mondeo - Dual mass flywheel - RT

Some drivers, possibly many, do enjoy dumping the clutch and using a turbo-diesel's low range torque - these are the drivers who need new clutches, new DMFs and new front tyres at about half the interval of the same model driven sensibly.

Towing can exacerbate the problem, depending how sensibly you drive - or not as the case may be.

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Sat 3 Jan 2015 22:12
Ford mondeo - Dual mass flywheel - daveyK_UK

On the widely used PSA 1.6 diesel,

from memory, Peugeot and Citroen do not install a DMF on the low 75bhp version of the engine, but do on the higher powered versions (90bhp and above)?

Is that correct?

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